Thread: troupe A and troupe B

so,

elaborating on this idea of having a troupe A, who does the professional work, and a troupe B, who do the student gigs, festivals, fairs, etc...

any suggestions for "naming" these. i'm sort of reluctant to say "profesisonals" and "students". not sure why. the professionals are sutdents too, and the idea is that they too join in at some student gigs (and not do ONLY pro gigs)...

Here's an example.
http://members.tripod.com/elhelwa/photos.html

This St. Louis area studio has a 'dance company' and a 'professional dance company'

Use two names that similar but not quite the same. For example, "Dancers of the Afternoon" for one and "Dancers of the Evening" for the other. (I'm not suggesting you use these particular names, just illustrating the concept.)

ah, i dont mean a troupe name, we already HAVE that. they will all be troupe (e)motion, or in dutch "dansgroep (e)motion". i mean, mostly for internal use, i need something that makes the difference between these two "legs" of the same dance group. all the marketing is done as artemisia and dance group (e)motion, and i'm not going to change that, they are still ONE troupe, in a sense... and within that one dance group there are the pro dancers and the advanced/intermediate students.

hm, doubting again whether this IS a good idea or not.

i kind of want to make a distincition between those in the troupe that are pro level,and will do the pro (and paid) gigs, and the solo''s and those that do the group numbers. this will help us make the transition to pro work and will be less hurtfull to those currently in the student troupe that will not be involved in the pro stuff. or something.

i dont want it to be two troupes, as most of the rehearsing will be together, and i fully expect the pro dancers at least in this phase, to also participate in the group stuff (well, we wouldnt have enough dancers for some of our stuff otherwise). and nobody should feel it's beneath themselves to do the festival/free stuff as well.. so it's more that we're ONE troupe, but some of this troupe, gets the paid stuff, as they are ready for thos and the rest is not?

thanks, just writing this down helps

chorus and semi-chorus?
orchestra and chamber orchestra?

Any words like that in dutch?

LOL

Z

YES, that's a good direction. so i will call the "larger troup" "chorus", or "corps de ballet", now i need an matching name for the pro dancers. soloists wont do... as they dont all do solo's.

"core dancers", there's not really a dutch equivalent, some dance schools here (jazz dance) call them the "keur troep", which sort of means "elite" troupe and has too much of a military connotation for my taste.

Featured dancers?

in english, perfect!

looking for a dictionary..

nope. the dutch it sounds again like "elite" or worse as "more important than others" dancer.

but this is a good idea, i'll go ask some dutch speakers to find something in this line of thought. "featured dancers" versus "chorus". that works as an idea, now just finding equivalents.

Originally Posted by sunshine

Featured dancers?

I think words like "student", "amateur", "professional", and "hobbyist" have a lot of emotional baggage. It's all too easy to attach hidden subtext such as "inferior" or "superior" to such words.

Even if you market only one name externally, I'd recommend internal code words to refer to the different groups. For example, you could refer to one group as the "Nefertitis" and the other as the "Hatshepsuts" - both queens, both important, but renowned for different reasons.

shira, yes, exactly, that's why i'm trying to find different words, with less emotional subtext.

i'm afraid using two different troupe names internally will get confusing, but it's a good idea to think about, thanks

Originally Posted by *Shira*

I think words like "student", "amateur", "professional", and "hobbyist" have a lot of emotional baggage. It's all too easy to attach hidden subtext such as "inferior" or "superior" to such words.

Even if you market only one name externally, I'd recommend internal code words to refer to the different groups. For example, you could refer to one group as the "Nefertitis" and the other as the "Hatshepsuts" - both queens, both important, but renowned for different reasons.

Originally Posted by artemisia_danst

shira, yes, exactly, that's why i'm trying to find different words, with less emotional subtext.

i'm afraid using two different troupe names internally will get confusing, but it's a good idea to think about, thanks

Instead of thinking of them as "troupe names", think of them as "performance classifications".

I think in ballet they have the 'corps de ballet' and then 'principal dancers' who do the larger parts & solos.

Someone (I want to say Lilla?) has a student group and then draws individual members from that group for specific projects, rather than having an A and B group. So rather than running a pro troupe (with all the promises of paid work implied by that) she has a student group and occasionally works with a smaller group for a specific project -- by invitation.

I wonder if that kind of solution would work better for you? And what her experiences have been with that?

I agree, using words like "professional" has a lot of emotional baggage - I've seen a "group within a troupe" that does the paid gigs, including solos, called "xyz Dancers" but they are also part of the entire troupe called "xyz Dance Company". Everyone in the company has the opportunity to perform at festivals and staged shows, some of these shows earn money for troupe coffer for props and costuming items but it's the "xyz Dancers" who are eligible for paid gigs where they are personally paid for every show that the other dance company members are not asked to do. It is explained to the dance company that the "XYZ Dancers" are hired for gigs through an agent that represents the director and as such, the clients specifiy body type, age, type of costuming. Interestingly enough, some XYZ Dancers do not always accept the gig, even though paid, and it's not because they are busy - they don't like the demand of it, the client expectations, while decent enough are too "show businessy" for them and since they have at least some other source of income, it isn't worth the hassle. It's not the entire "perk" that it may seem at first unless the dancer intends to "go pro" and make the commitment of time and energy. OT, private gigs were my least favorite form of pro belly dancing - I loved the Arab clubs and restaurants a lot more!

I think a lot depends on how the director handles having a "paid dancer group within a troupe" - if not communicated sensitively, some dancers may just take a powder, feeling left out of performing opportunities when in fact, paid private gigs are only one facet of belly dance performing opportunities. If not interested or able to "go pro" in the restaurant club scene, there are staged shows that can be very professional and earn funds for troupe and charity and that require plenty of rehearsal time, good costuming and provide opportunities for dancers to present solos, duets creatively.

It's not the name, it's the entire communication process, although I realize that it is not always possible for a director to provide all members of a troupe with performing opportunities that they want.

I'm sorry but I'm gonna write this is Dutch as it's easier:

Assuming you're featuring troupe (e)motion on your website you can specify the troupes repertory (e.g. darbuka solo, saidi, wings of isis, veil) and according to the repertory needed for a gig just choose the right girls who are specialized in this.

Hope this makes sense to you!

B

da's wel engels he barbara, but a good idea...

we have decided to go around this pretty informally. it's one big group but they all realise that a few of them are those that are ready for professional (solo) work, and that most of them will be doing the (unpaid) group festival stuff, but that for the weekly rehearsals we are one group (but sometimes extra rehearsals for the core dancers/soloists), and the soloists are also expected to learn the group stuff, and that soloists/core dancers will be recruited, as we progress, from the group.

so far no complaints, so this seems to work for us, for now