Thread: Peer teaching - avoiding mistakes

Hello all,

I've been dancing for about four years now and slowly start feeling confident enough to perform for friends and family. That gets me quite a few requests from people to "show them some moves" which I'm happy to do. For instance I'm currently doing a peer teaching thing with my girlfriend visiting over the holidays - we dedicate about two hours a day for me showing her some dancing and her showing me some martial arts.

I don't see myself teaching (or even performing) professionally any time soon if ever, and would send anyone who is seriously interested to visit local bellydance classes. But I would love to get some basic hints on how to avoid causing harm to my "students" when doing a bit of peer teaching for fun.

So far I'm doing about 20-30 minutes of warm up and stretches before each session (basically the full routine of what we're doing in class) and keep reminding my students to keep the pelvis neutral, core engaged, shoulders relaxed, knees soft and avoid a hollow-back. Since I can't expect a total beginner to exercise the movements correctly from the get-go I guess there's some things I need to let slide in order to not frustrate them. But what are the mistakes I definitely need to correct to avoid harm and injury? Especially if someone is a bit stiff and has never done isolations - is it okay to feel some pain from stretching muscles that aren't used to being stretched and moved, or is any discomfort to be avoided?

TIA!

I don't believe a student should ever move into pain.

In fact, I don't believe it's good for the human body to move into pain in any activity. Certain athletes and dancers make exceptions because they're willing to trade their future mobility for a short career.

Originally Posted by Maudjah

I don't see myself teaching (or even performing) professionally any time soon if ever, and would send anyone who is seriously interested to visit local bellydance classes. But I would love to get some basic hints on how to avoid causing harm to my "students" when doing a bit of peer teaching for fun.

That depends on how you define "harm." At the risk of hurting your feelings, this is a variation of the undercutting problem. Either you are in or you are out. If you want to teach, you should go about it professionally, and if you don't want to teach, you should not be giving freebie or barter lessons, since this is taking work away from another dancer who does want to teach professionally and charge for her expertise. Whether the potential student is "seriously interested" should not be justification for anything. Many recreational dancers have no professional aspirations, and only pursue the dance for a few months or years before moving on to another hobby.

It's definitely possible that after four years of lessons you are not imposing any lasting physical harm on anyone with what you are doing. This is a dance done socially and without formal instruction in its native context, so unless you are doing backbends or Turkish drops, or you don't discuss posture at all, you are probably not going to encourage a student to hurt herself, especially if she has a lot of experience in another movement discipline like martial arts. However, there is still the issue that many dancers feel if you are not ready to perform professionally, you are not ready to teach either. I also don't understand your use of the word "peer." If you know something someone doesn't and you are teaching it to them from an authoritative position, you are no longer "peers" in that sense, even if you are the same age or social status.

So far I'm doing about 20-30 minutes of warm up and stretches before each session (basically the full routine of what we're doing in class)...

So far it sounds like what you are doing is teaching your teacher's class behind her back for free. Do you have your teacher's permission to use her warm up (that she's probably developed through years of experience and that you're piggybacking on)? It's one thing to do a short, spontaneous demonstration of your dancing. It's another thing to be intentionally teaching "under the table" for a planned duration.

Especially if someone is a bit stiff and has never done isolations - is it okay to feel some pain from stretching muscles that aren't used to being stretched and moved, or is any discomfort to be avoided?

There can be subtle differences between new muscular activity resulting in soreness, muscular fatigue from extended use, and improper motion that can damage connective tissue. I'm sorry, but if you are not sure how to answer a question this fundamental, you're really not ready to be teaching--for free or otherwise.

You get to learn a bit of martial arts, she gets to learn a few bellydance moves. Sounds completely harmless to me...like my niece teaching me a hip hop move and in return I teach her how to do an omi. I wouldn't feel guilty about it as I have no problem with bartering. As for health and safety, do a good warmup and focus on posture and if it hurts, don't do it.

Originally Posted by Maudjah

is it okay to feel some pain from stretching muscles that aren't used to being stretched and moved, or is any discomfort to be avoided?

TIA!

nothing should hurt. at all.
now, there's a difference between pain and soreness and another difference between pain and "Feeling the burn" and yet another difference between pain and the discomfort or awkwardness of using muscles you didn't know you had and have never consciously used before.
learn anatomy and body mechanics and what muscles drive the moves. (and ask what injuries or limitations they might have, and either modify the moves for them or defer to their doctor as to what they can safely do) if you've only taken class from one teacher and she didn't teach you this it is a big gap in your education. before teaching you should study as many different sources as possible. just like you don't want to dance like a clone of your teacher you want different teaching styles to mingle in your brain and body and come out as something uniquely you.

Sounds good what you're doing so far. Definitely keep reminding your pupil(s)/peer(s) about posture. If they don't keep that pelvis tucked, it can lead to bad back injuries and lots of pulled and strained muscles.

Originally Posted by Oona_Belly

You get to learn a bit of martial arts, she gets to learn a few bellydance moves. Sounds completely harmless to me...like my niece teaching me a hip hop move and in return I teach her how to do an omi. I wouldn't feel guilty about it as I have no problem with bartering. As for health and safety, do a good warmup and focus on posture and if it hurts, don't do it.

That does sound harmless, if that's what it is. If someone casually asks you to show them how to do a move, there's nothing wrong with teaching them. I'd even go ahead and say there's nothing wrong with having a planned out session with a friend where you teach them a little bit of something you know and they teach you a little bit of something they know. I'd have no qualms about getting a friend started in belly dance that way, and it would make it easier for me to convince her/him to join my teacher's class.

But with a quote like the one below, it sounds like the OP might be gathering (or planning on gathering) a few students much like a real class, in a format set up like class, and teaching it for free and without qualification. I think this is something a lot of dancers could rightfully take issue with.

So far I'm doing about 20-30 minutes of warm up and stretches before each session (basically the full routine of what we're doing in class) and keep reminding my students to keep the pelvis neutral, core engaged, shoulders relaxed, knees soft and avoid a hollow-back.

well i'm sure her friend teaching her martial arts wouldn't introduce her to a move without warming up, so that's responsible....however, i would have approached t he teacher 'say, is it ok if i show someone the warm up?, they're schedule doesn't permit the class.....' or whatever, and if she says NO, then honor it....honestly....the occasional move or whatever is all well and good, but if the friend was seriously considering learning moves, she should go to class with the OP's teacher....if the OP was ALREADY a teacher, barter is ok, especially if the friend TEACHES martial arts......one needs a strong understanding of the body and the movements to safely teach..but students teaching each other stuff? not sure if i'm comfortable with that

Originally Posted by yameyameyame

That does sound harmless, if that's what it is. If someone casually asks you to show them how to do a move, there's nothing wrong with teaching them. I'd even go ahead and say there's nothing wrong with having a planned out session with a friend where you teach them a little bit of something you know and they teach you a little bit of something they know. I'd have no qualms about getting a friend started in belly dance that way, and it would make it easier for me to convince her/him to join my teacher's class.

That pretty much sums it up, yes.
I have my sweetie (and for a couple of days over Christmas it was her and another friend) visiting from out of town, they wouldn't take classes with my teacher anyway, because they live a couple of hours away. If they wanted to take classes it'd be with someone else, but I doubt that due to their full schedules outside the holidays they would at this point in time.

They weren't the first ones to ask me, just the first ones I showed more than a single hour's worth of stuff, simply because they are/were around a lot.

But with a quote like the one below, it sounds like the OP might be gathering (or planning on gathering) a few students much like a real class, in a format set up like class, and teaching it for free and without qualification. I think this is something a lot of dancers could rightfully take issue with.

Nope, not really.


About my teacher's copyright regarding her warm-ups - um, well, when I "teach" that's part of my personal daily practice session, (I usually dance another hour or two of more advanced stuff afterwards) and I think it'd be somewhat silly to change my routine just in order to not tell any secrets. It's not like I'm teaching class choreography to use in a commercial troupe gig or anything.

I'm not really sure how this had been able to come across differently to anyone, but all I want to do is have some fun with friends, especially since it's the holidays, classes don't resume until mid January and it's much more fun to be active together than dancing or doing other sports alone. And I want to make sure my friends are safe.


Thanks for all the good advice on the question I asked! ..g.:

Originally Posted by ruta21030

..but students teaching each other stuff? not sure if i'm comfortable with that

That was my point. There's nothing wrong with a little demonstration and a little "Try this...," but the OP was describing multiple, two-hour-a-day, education-exchange sessions over a longer period of time. This isn't just a bit of spontaneous goofing around. Personally, I'd be just as worried about learning martial arts under those conditions. Does your friend's sensei think she should be teaching people in exchange for belly-dancing lessons? Unlike this dance, martial arts do have rankings and known skill levels, and they take them very seriously. It takes a lot of time, talent, and effort to get the darker colored belts, and those who achieve them expect to be respected for it. A teacher with a black belt and a karate studio isn't going to take any more kindly to a free-lance amateur cutting in on his teaching business than a professional dancer with a restaurant gig does when a student with a costume offers to dance for free to get performing experience.

Originally Posted by Maudjah

...I think it'd be somewhat silly to change my routine just in order to not tell any secrets. It's not like I'm teaching class choreography to use in a commercial troupe gig or anything.

Then ask your teacher how she feels about what you're doing. Most of the dancers I know consider that sort of behavior disrespectful, if not outright theft of their intellectual property.

...but all I want to do is have some fun with friends, especially since it's the holidays, classes don't resume until mid January and it's much more fun to be active together than dancing or doing other sports alone.

The fact that it's the holidays and you want to have fun isn't relevant. You are giving away something practically for free while other dancers are struggling to convince people that this dance is artistically valid and worth paying money for. And that doesn't even begin to address whether you are qualified to teach after you've said that you are still working on the confidence to perform, and you've posted to ask a question that could be considered indicative of teacher malpractice.

And I want to make sure my friends are safe.

Then you and your friends should chip in on a semi-private lesson with someone who has the expertise to advise students on what safe movement is.

If this is an occasional, friendly friends-with-friends, I see no harm in it. This kind of info exchange is how the planet gets on. I understand Tourbeau's concern that you not represent yourself as a teacher until you are ready to teach, but if my parents had deferred teaching me to speak, cook and draw until they could afford to hire a trained professional I would be in a bad way right now. Teaching each other to dance/ play music / weave/ sew / quilt/ etc is an important part of being human. I don't see you doing anything that humans haven't been doing for a long long time.

I think what you are doing is fine. It is short term and for fun. We certainly would balk at your friend joining in on your daily practice and following along or doing a vid with you and you clarifing some things in the process. This can be a good way to show your friend that this dance is danable for everyone and get her into classes. Have fun and just remember posture!

It's really not that serious, I don't see any harm in it.
And to echo what someone else said you are not turkish drops or deep backbends or barrel turns so they won't get hurt.
I was just at a party with arab ladies this weekend and we were bellydancing the night away and some of them were giving lessons to some of the arab ladies with two left feet. lol
Nobody was getting hurt. Ya, so it's really not that serious. People that want to go take lessons will take lessons.

Thanks again for your replies, everyone! That input helped a lot. ..g.: