Thread: ATS cues

I just bought Gypsy Caravan intro to ATS. Nowhere in there does she teach a cue. Not one. Is there a lexicon for cues to be found anywhere?

For some ATS moves, particularly the slow moves, there is no "cue". Some of the moves are easy enough to pick up by watching the leader. Since it is her "intro" DVD, these could be moves where there is no "cue".

Often a cue is simply a partial turn (cueing a turn) or a look (in a particular direction) or moving the arms and hands to a particular position that starts the move. Sometimes the cue could be a "yip" (for a turn, if doing a partial turn isn't practical).

For instance, when we are doing a move called "basic Egyptian", the leader will do a kind of 1/8 turn left and right to cue us that we are going to turn the move. When we are doing Arabic, a 1/4 turn is the cue to start turning it. If we are doing, say, reach and sit, then we'll use a "yip" to turn it.

Many of the combos we use are our own, though, and have their own specific cues--usually the starting hand position. Slower moves (aka taqsim (I know, I know, but that's thecommon tribal terminology)) tend not to have cues, as it is easy to follow them.

I know on the FCBD DVDs the cues arent taught on the first one either (they are on #4 or 5 if I recall correctly), so it might be like that.

Is a cue done on count one and executed on count 3? Do you count in 4s or 8s?

I used to take tribal classes years ago. . . whether it was 4s or 8s depended on the rhythm we were dancing too. If it was a 4 count beat, it was counted in 4s.

In the beginning classes, the cue was given early in the measure and executed on the first beat of the next measure. Later, when we were more familiar with the format and had the moves down really well, the cues came faster - on the 3 or even 4 and executed on the following 1. (A few cues we did involved a flowing change of arms, that might take the whole measure to execute, so those were started sooner. I dont think those moves were part of a standard FCBD format though but something unique to my class.)

peripheral vision ........

It's possible that the cues are on a later DVD. I know that's what FCBD did (I think that's already been stated).

One problem with a cue lexicon is that not all versions of ATS/ITS are universal. I know FCBD has made a request that ATS be reserved for only FCBD format for that reason. I could write up a lexicon for most of their cues fairly easily, but from what I've learned with my old tribal instructor, Gypsy Caravan and BSBD have different cues, so it may not be so helpful. I've also noticed (to add to the confusion) that some of the cues are identical and you just have to watch the lead dancer, like for the Turkish shimmy and the Arabic hip-twist. That makes learning the cues from a list that much more challenging.

Good luck with picking up all the cues. It may help to just sit and watch the performance videos over and over again, see if you can identify something different the dancer may do going into the next move, even if it's just a change to a specific arm posture or physically turning the body. That's how I picked up most of the cues I know. Only a few of them did I find out later were inaccurate. If you really look carefully, you may be able to catch them and pick them out.

I think FCBD's cues are explained in their #5 video (named . . . Cues and Transitions! ..g.: ) GC format is different for many things, actually, a LOT of their moves are totally different. I took some workshops with Paulette this summer and I was like a total baby dancer it was so different. If you have any questions, I'd email her as she's really receptive to communicating with students.

Cues often happen on the "and" in between moves. For a 4 count move you'd cue the next one at the "and a 1 and a 2 and a 3 and a 4 AND A 1 . . . " If this helps, I've been told ATS moves happen on the downbeat (I think I understand what that means but I have trouble with any musical concepts so I can't explain it). For longer combos the cue would be at the point when the combo has ended and can either repeat or change. This changes for slow moves, since they are usually not on a count. Then it's either the transition to the next move or a defined cue. Cues can be a head turn, a change from flat footed to releve, arms moving to a new position, etc.

ATS does not use vocal cues. BSBD does (or did, I haven't kept up) and I'm not sure about GC.

my head hurts......

Originally Posted by anala

my head hurts......

I know! Confusing, isn't it?

When I first started learning my instructor used a lot of the GC format. When I got to Texas I got a chance to improv with someone who had actually studied with FCBD and I was completely lost! There were cues I'd never seen before and the execution of those moves were totally different in some ways!

I definitely recommend picking a format you like to begin with and sticking with it until you're very familiar. I would also seek out other dancers that practice the format you use and learn as much as you can from them. I learned most of the clarifications on confusing cues and things like that from some very helpful dancers on Tribe a while back.

As for when the cues happen, I've always known them to happen between the last beat of the current move and the first beat of the next, as was said by a previous poster. So, cuing out of a four count move into one with the same count, for example, would be "one and two and three and four cue one and two and three and four". Cues are always done after the last count of any move or combo, so if it's a six count for whatever reason, then it happens right after the six.

And slow moves, even without the cues, are generally executed slowly enough and have a great enough difference in appearance that it's almost easier to mimic the lead dancer than to look for a cue. I think, perhaps, a cue would be too obvious and distracting for a slow move. That's something I'll have to ask next time I have opportunity.

Originally Posted by Kisaya

I definitely recommend picking a format you like to begin with and sticking with it until you're very familiar. I would also seek out other dancers that practice the format you use and learn as much as you can from them. I learned most of the clarifications on confusing cues and things like that from some very helpful dancers on Tribe a while back.

I absolutely agree! Because the cues can be quite different between formats, I have found that sticking with the format you like best and getting really comfortable with the movements makes a huge difference, both in execution of the moves and of the cues. I found that I had to relearn a number of movements when I moved between the formats, and of course, that made cuing even more difficult.,r:;

Tribal format and recognition of cues will come easier in an actual class setting. Until you see it and feel it happening together with a group of people it will seem very foreign. When you dance it as a group it's like magic! Nonverbal communication between dancers...very beautiful.

Originally Posted by Sabine

Tribal format and recognition of cues will come easier in an actual class setting. Until you see it and feel it happening together with a group of people it will seem very foreign. When you dance it as a group it's like magic! Nonverbal communication between dancers...very beautiful.

This is also very true. It's one thing to learn these moves and cues from a DVD, but quite another to actually use them. I've found there was a world of difference between working with a DVD and dancing with actual people. You have to learn to adapt more to slight variations in the moves and cues as done by different people on different bodies. Somehow, I've found that just experiencing those little differences makes it all make that much more sense. It also helps when you're familiar with the group you practice with. I've noticed that there was one dancer that I swear I always knew what she was cuing before I even saw the cue! It becomes intuitive and almost unconscious rather than something you have to watch for and think about.

Originally Posted by Kisaya

It also helps when you're familiar with the group you practice with. I've noticed that there was one dancer that I swear I always knew what she was cuing before I even saw the cue! It becomes intuitive and almost unconscious rather than something you have to watch for and think about.

Absolutely! What I love so much about this style is the cohesiveness felt between dancers. The more that we dance together, the smoother and more intuitive the dance becomes.

I'm sorry Anala...that probably doesn't help to answer your question! ,r:;

Wow, that's weird, I never realized that. In Tribal Odyssey we teach cues right away. I'd think it would be a big "?" in student's minds otherwise - ? Plus ours are kind of obvious (I think), hard to miss.

I've always taught cues from the start too. I thought it would make more sense that way. Maybe it's because I've always learned cues from the start in every class I've taken.

I suspect that in the FCBD series, cues are covered fairly late in the set of videos because in that system, there are context-specific cues for putting things together and not a specific, universal signal that goes with a move? In fact, often the cue is going into the next move at a logical point in the music with intention and with an understanding what sequence of moves makes sense (in FCBD, one will not switch between Arabic and Egyptian, and will probably not go from an Egyptian turn into a Chico turn). There is no secret "flash card" that the leader holds out ;-)

Now, when it comes how one teaches this best - I understand the choice made in the FCBD videos. It is a clean, logical organization and for me studying with the tapes as a complete set (and w/o a local class) worked very well. Now, in a weekly class, the situation is a bit different, and the concept of transitions and cues can be introduced as part of drilling moves very nicely.

Originally Posted by anala

my head hurts......

Mine does as well.