Another WWBD Thread...

[laura 2]

I have been training a state-level pageant contestant for the last 6 weeks. She's never done BD before, but is highly trained in other dance forms and has been catching on amazingly well. Her time limit is 1:30, so I was able to put together a deceptively simple piece that both of us thought was coming together beautifully.

This past week she, her coach and a few of her pageant buddies went to the Miss America competition in Vegas. I guess in addition to watching the competition, it's also like a convention/trade show type of thing as well where you can network and connect with others in the pageant industry.

I woke up to this email this morning, and my head is kind of 'splody. Mind you, this girl has, IMO, a great body. In fact, she is built very similarly to Aziza, and one of the first things I did was show her footage of Aziza so she could see the physical similarity.

While I was at Miss America it was brought to my attention by a few people that they love the way my dance is however my body is not where it needs to be to perform it correctly. With pageants the swimsuit portion, although it is a small percentage, it is taken into account during every phase of competition and with doing a belly dance piece it is almost asking them to look at me again in swimsuit (not my strongest area)...so my coach told me to wait and see where my body is after Madison...

I know it is short notice but certainly not wasted time because I've wanted to learn it for quite awhile and would like to learn it even more but will probably wait to see how Miss Madison turns out...

What are your thoughts?

Let me know!

My initial gut reaction is to say that anyone telling her there's something wrong with her body is shallow, insane, and she should stay away from them. But she's been doing pageants her whole life and obviously values the experience, and I don't want to offend her. She is such a sweet girl and has been so dedicated these past weeks.

I thought about suggesting a one piece costume, but the competition is only 3 weeks away so I don't know where she'd get one. Plus, she already bought a costume and I know it was a struggle for her to pay for that one; I doubt she could afford a second purchase. I can't lend her the one costume I have with midriff cover because she's a whole lot bigger on top than me. And based on what she's told me about these pageants, it doesn't sound like a one piece would be very well received - they prefer the flashy, sexy and obvious.

Anyone have any ideas how I can respond tactfully?

[SatinWorship19]

Wow. I just had the same reaction.

I would be tempted to say that her body type can be advantageous for belly dance, and show her how her doppelganger Aziza's body type produces such perfect shimmies and soft gooey moves.

But I'm on my first sip of coffee this morning. And my impression of beauty pageants is that they're not so much about the diversity of form as they are about....well, never mind ,f::

[Rosette]

Unless her costume really does happen to be not flattering to her particular body type . . . I think your initial gut reaction is RIGHT ON.

Gosh did I really just say "right on!"? More evidence that I'm old...l;,

Rosette

[_Tanya_]

What about a body stocking? I think the colored ones are sexy and it would offer a cheaper alternative then an entire new costume

[KelsNasim]

I don't know what to tell her but I am very sad for her. She worked so hard, bought a cotume and seems to have found something she enjoys and wanted to share it. Now she is made to feel self-conscious about it. Even if she were to continue and do the dance for the competition she would not be as confident anymore. And now having to start over with something else will be hard given the short notice. Almost sounds like someone is setting her up to fail.

[indigostars]

I think Aziza is gorgeous, don't get me wrong at all, but would she have been able to be successful in a beauty pageant? I know I wouldn't be (besides not having the beauty pageant personality).

How old is she? And people wonder why young women have poor body image...

I'd probably tell her that her body is right for belly dancing and that there is no "correct" body for dancing but that you respect that she/her coach doesn't feel that the costuming is advantageous for beauty pageants. Tell her that she's a beautiful dancer and that you hope to work with her again.

I suppose a galebeya is out of the question?

[laura 2]

I think Aziza is gorgeous, don't get me wrong at all, but would she have been able to be successful in a beauty pageant? I know I wouldn't be (besides not having the beauty pageant personality).

I agree, I think based on what she's shared with me, that the pageant judges would tell Aziza to lose 10 - 15 pounds. ..cr.:

How old is she? And people wonder why young women have poor body image...

She's very young - I think 20 years old, tops.

I'd probably tell her that her body is right for belly dancing and that there is no "correct" body for dancing but that you respect that she/her coach doesn't feel that the costuming is advantageous for beauty pageants. Tell her that she's a beautiful dancer and that you hope to work with her again.

I think this is the route I'm going to go. I can't harshly criticize the pageant community's expectations without trashing something that she's spent her entire life doing. This girl lives, eats and breathes pageants, and if I call the community shallow and stupid I'm basically calling her and her friends shallow and stupid. I would never hurt her feelings like that, it would just be mean.

I suppose a galebeya is out of the question?

I think the judges would be completely confused by a galabeya or anything outside of the GP's image of what Belly dancers wear. It doesn't sound like they have very much imagination. Pluse, she has neither the time or the funds to get a new costume, and she wouldn't be able to squeeze even half a boob into my galabeya if I lent it to her (not to mention I could not in good conscience encourage her to wear something so folky to the dramatic world fusion piece we're using).

[SandraDances]

I would just tell her that you have full confidence in her and support her in whatever decision she makes.

[LiesaB.]

Gosh did I really just say "right on!"? More evidence that I'm old...l;,

Rosette

Um, right on...sistah! I still say it. Quite a bit,r:; Yup old and still cool..l;, Beats the alternative as my mom would say...
Back to topic...it seems she has already made her choice to participate in this pageant, and she enjoys it or whatever. Body stocking not a good choice? Or sleeves? I am sort of confused as to her alternatives - to do a different dance or different talent, or to not bellydance - but it is too late to change? Don't other dances wear even skimpier stuff?
Do you mean, you are trying to find the right words to be supportive? Sounds your gut & heart are leading you correctly. I second the comments about encourage her about her body and dance.
Maybe a miracle would happen...with your great coaching & her lovely dance the judges would see something beautiful instead of knee jerk! click! over the weight limit!,f::

[artemisia_danst]

he

i'd run far away from any involvement in the comp, yeah, let her choose another dance and all.

but meanwhile try to recruit her as a student and to stick to this new hobby also, where her body is less picked on than in her other/pageant hobby. she might start seeing the benefits.

it might be better for her not to have a bad pageant experience using bellydance,

to NOT use bellydance for the pageant at all, and enjoy it elsewhere. if you can, offer her to show her dance at a showcase/student hafla or so, instead, so the work hasnt be for nothing.

[Tourbeau]

While I was at Miss America it was brought to my attention by a few people that they love the way my dance is however my body is not where it needs to be to perform it correctly. With pageants the swimsuit portion, although it is a small percentage, it is taken into account during every phase of competition and with doing a belly dance piece it is almost asking them to look at me again in swimsuit (not my strongest area)...so my coach told me to wait and see where my body is after Madison...
[...]
My initial gut reaction is to say that anyone telling her there's something wrong with her body is shallow, insane, and she should stay away from them.

You're certainly within your rights to correct what she's written you. "My body is not where it needs to be to perform it correctly" is their assessment of where her body needs to be to dance in a beauty pageant. The aesthetics of 36-24-36 have nothing to do with the criteria we use to judge a body as suitable for performing this dance. "Perform it correctly" to us is about things like muscular intention, posture, and knowing which moves go best with certain pieces of music. We don't actually give a hoot whether you're stocky through the waist. [Insert tasteless revenge fantasy about using Randa's belly chain as a garrote here...]

I thought about suggesting a one piece costume, but the competition is only 3 weeks away so I don't know where she'd get one. Plus, she already bought a costume and I know it was a struggle for her to pay for that one; I doubt she could afford a second purchase.

That's what frantic posts on the Swap Meet are for.

I can't lend her the one costume I have with midriff cover because she's a whole lot bigger on top than me.

I know they make under-bust models of stomach covers, but unfortunately, it doesn't sound like that is what you have. Again, Swap Meet? Also try searching in the costuming forum. I think there have been a couple of threads about converting fishnet hose and so on. Also, if she's doing a fusion piece, maybe she could do some old-school, toga-style veil wrapping? Somewhere there's a thread with videos of Turkish dancers wearing their veils throughout their performances.

[bellyfina]

I'd also try the bodystocking route. But either attach some sparklies to it or use a colored one so it doesn't look to obvious that she's trying NOT to show off her body. And it's got to be something she can wear with confidence! It's too bad she's having doubts so late in the game.

And I'm also wondering what she'd do if she dropped the belly dance routine, and what she would wear...

[laura 2]

I believe she will switch back to ballet or lyrical/modern, which is what she's done for the talent portion in the past. I'd assume she has a costume or two from previous pageants that she can slap on.

I don't know what a body stocking would hold in or disguise - this girl is about a size 6, and her midriff skin is perfectly smooth. She's got no belly pouch, muffintops or anything - she's just built with curves. All I can figure is that they don't want to draw attention to the fact that she's not stick thin like some of the other contestants.

[Lauren_]

I would just tell her that you have full confidence in her and support her in whatever decision she makes.

Yes.

I might add that she has a perfect body for bellydance, IMO, but I understand that her goal is to win the pageant, not to become a professional bellydancer.

[artemisia_danst]

all i can think is, how sad

I don't know what a body stocking would hold in or disguise - this girl is about a size 6, and her midriff skin is perfectly smooth. She's got no belly pouch, muffintops or anything - she's just built with curves. All I can figure is that they don't want to draw attention to the fact that she's not stick thin like some of the other contestants.

[coffeegoddess]

Wow. I farking hate pageants.

But I have to third (fourth?) that whatever your response, please make sure to let her know that the issue whoever it is has with her body does NOT actually have to do with her performing the dance. It's their issue, not a dance issue.

[eshtabellydance]

I fracking hate pageants too!!!!!!
I second coffeegoddess who put it just right.

[raqFariha]

all i can think is, how sad

^ this

he

i'd run far away from any involvement in the comp, yeah, let her choose another dance and all.

but meanwhile try to recruit her as a student and to stick to this new hobby also, where her body is less picked on than in her other/pageant hobby. she might start seeing the benefits.

it might be better for her not to have a bad pageant experience using bellydance,

to NOT use bellydance for the pageant at all, and enjoy it elsewhere. if you can, offer her to show her dance at a showcase/student hafla or so, instead, so the work hasnt be for nothing.

^and this
good luck. i hope she is very good at compartmentalizing the pageant judge's view from reality and from her own perceptions of her body.

[anala]

After all the hard work you have both put in on this, I just cant help but think there must be some sort of costume that would work, especially if it has a fusiony feel to it. Have you looked on the all about dance web site for some of the modern jazzy stuff that could be paired with a belt? Without knowing the music, it is hard to give good advice.

[SatinWorship19]

I fracking hate pageants too!!!!!!
I second coffeegoddess who put it just right.

I fracking hate pageants, too. In fact, I find the whole concept mother-frackin' ridiculous!

[faaria]

I would support her in her decision. (with a gental reminder that beauty comes in so many forms and that you have found it beautiful to work with her, as you seem to have:) Maybe when all this "beauty stuff" is out she will find a home with belly dance?

[Linnyg]

Perhaps they are worried about the image of BD in a pagent and using the body as an excuse? If they think it is too "sexy" for the concept of Miss whatever that may be driving the idea. Maybe pointing out other contestants who have used BD for their talent and won might be a way to go. I know there are a few of them. Miss Oregon is one and I think Montana?

[Samira_dncr]

I rather like the decorated body stocking approach. Perhaps ask her if that might resolve the issue?

[halftruths]

Yes.

I might add that she has a perfect body for bellydance, IMO, but I understand that her goal is to win the pageant, not to become a professional bellydancer.

This!!

She is clearly committed to the pageant circuit, and I do not think it would be appropriate to lecture her on the ethics of this form of competition and any resultant effects on personal body image. Letting her know that her body would be great for BD is certainly a good idea, though. Aziza, as stunning as she is, would not fit the mold for pageants; this is not a slight against Aziza, but rather a candid statement of the requirements of the pageant circuit.

I'm with all the others who recommended a body stocking, especially one with plenty of rhinestones attached to emphasize the bling and maybe take away some of the attention generated by her proportions. I think that any body adornment that could enhance or create the illusion of a more rectangular body shape would be desirable and minimize the effect of what I assume is a natural hourglass figure. Do you have a photo of her in the costume? It might help some of our costuming divas make solid recommendations.

[laura 2]

This!!

She is clearly committed to the pageant circuit, and I do not think it would be appropriate to lecture her on the ethics of this form of competition and any resultant effects on personal body image. Letting her know that her body would be great for BD is certainly a good idea, though. Aziza, as stunning as she is, would not fit the mold for pageants; this is not a slight against Aziza, but rather a candid statement of the requirements of the pageant circuit.

Exactly. She is not a BD student of mine who decided to enter a pageant, she is a pageant contestant who decided to take up BD soley as a way to increase her talent score. She was doing very well, especially for the short period of time I was working with her, and enjoyed the lessons, but it wasn't like she fell head over heels with the dance. It was a means to an end, not the primary desire.

I sent her a carefully worded email on Monday letting her know that while I can't agree that she doesn't have the body to do BD correctly, I can understand that there are different aesthetics in the pageant community than in the BD community. I told her I hoped that I could work with her again in the future, that I hoped she would still go through with performing at a hafla on the 20th (she was using it as a dry-run opportunity), and that wished her nothing but the best of luck at the pagent.

I have had no response from her. I don't know if she's pissed, or has just moved on mentally and hasn't had the inclination to respond. All I know is that if I don't hear from her by this upcoming, Monday I will have to contact her again because I let her take one of my silk veils home to practice with. ,f:: I don't know whay it is that whenever someone cuts off contact with me, they always have something of mine I need back.

[portiaangel]

that is so sad ... and a body stocking - even a blinged up one probably wouldn't have gone over as it probably would have looked to the judges like she was trying to hide something ... what's even sadder ... the last pageant I had the misfortune of watching - instead of calling the swimsuit competition what it is - a judgement of a certain aesthetic appeal (which at this point in time in our culture is extremely thin) ... they tried to make it sound all noble by calling it an "assessment of the contestants' health" because they want their contestants well rounded (not literally, obviously) and that includes physically healthy... um ... ARE YOU KIDDING ME? ... I was so disgusted I felt physically ill ... I really hope your student (or at least part time student) makes it through the pageant days with her body image and self esteem in tact and doesn't let warped size ideas like the ones she was met with stop her from pursuing whatever she is interested in.