Thread: can you be a mom and successful dancer?

Since when did having a child stop any determined woman persung a career,being just as beautiful afterwards.
I understand the BDSS retrictions because of their touring schedule. Only women with grown up children would be suitable but hey no they wouldn't would they.
Did having a baby ever stop a dancer in Egypt carrying on with her career..only if she decided to become religious and as for the majority of "real" belly dancers in the local night clubs and wedding dancers..it's their bread and butter.
Personally I am more concerned about wether or not I can be a gran and belly dance

I think you can be a mom and a sucessful dancer. Please take a look at Shabnam Pena. She was 6 1/2 months pregnant and dancing. ;-) Please take a look at the video below. Sending lots of hugs and shimmies!!!


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mufryqH14ms]YouTube - Rashika Ensemble[/ame]
Shabnam Belly Dance - Oakland, San Francisco, San Jose

Well, to answer the OP, yes I think you can.

And to address one issue in particular...my daughter has never been embarrassed to say her mother is a bellydancer. She is a lovely little girl, much more conservative than I, and until this year has always attended parochial school. If your child is the type to be embarrassed by what you do for a living, it won't matter whether you are a Bellydancer or a garbage truck driver, or a doctor. They'll still be ashamed. But that's a crazy reason not to pursue your dreams. You'd be effectively teaching your child that if people don't like your choice, then you should change to suit them. Not my goal as a parent.

Originally Posted by lizajuk

Personally I am more concerned about wether or not I can be a gran and belly dance

Lol... h*ll yeah.

My mum is a recent "gran" and she is a full time dance teacher and still gigs every weekend...

Originally Posted by zaynahcantara

Well, to answer the OP, yes I think you can.

And to address one issue in particular...my daughter has never been embarrassed to say her mother is a bellydancer. She is a lovely little girl, much more conservative than I, and until this year has always attended parochial school. If your child is the type to be embarrassed by what you do for a living, it won't matter whether you are a Bellydancer or a garbage truck driver, or a doctor. They'll still be ashamed. But that's a crazy reason not to pursue your dreams. You'd be effectively teaching your child that if people don't like your choice, then you should change to suit them. Not my goal as a parent.

Some children are embarrassed and some are not. It depends on their age, sex, and personal temperament. A ten-year-old daughter might see what you do as an empowerment of feminine beauty, while a teenage boy might be utterly mortified by his mother doing things that might be perceived as sexy or embarrassing to his peers. YMMV.

No one is presenting this as a reason not to pursue your dreams, only that it factors into some dancers' decisions to pursue high-profile careers less aggressively, or even to go back "into the closet," after becoming a mother. I think it is oversimplifying to say this represents "effectively teaching your child that if people don't like your choice, then you should change to suit them," though. I see it as explaining to a child that not every bit of information about your life is appropriate to share with every group of people in any possible situation. "Changing who you are" and "judiciously disseminating information" are two different things. As a general rule, it's simple politeness have an awareness of when to keep your business to yourself, and discussing your career or hobbies with strangers who aren't interested or are uncomfortable with the subject is rude. It doesn't really matter if you are completely justified and it's "their baggage" that they don't want to hear about it. (Being a proctologist is noble, respectable work, but most people find it makes for awkward small talk at a party.) Part of living in society is knowing what to keep to yourself and when to do it.

While I am not anywhere NEAR the status of dancers mentioned in this article (Suhaila, Fahteim, Jillina, etc....) I am a mom and I am, in my eyes, a successful dancer with a busy career teaching several classes a week and traveling many weekends to teach and perform out of town. Unlike a lot of dancers mentioned here, I started my career after my son was born, not before. I had been a bellydance hobbyist for several years, and when I got back to it after his birth, something in me "clicked" and I knew I wanted to make dance a bigger part of my life. Since my dream of motherhood was achieved, I feel I was inspired to follow up by achieving my dance dreams.

Since he was a baby, my son has accompanied me to shows appropriate for children. He was present at my troupe rehearsals when we first formed and he was a toddler. Once I started traveling to teach workshops around the country, I found that I had an opportunity to expose my son to a world that few kids would get to experience. He doesn't always come "on the road" with me, but he has been my travel buddy on and off since he was five. He's nearing 11 now and gets sincerely bummed out when he finds out I'm going to a new and exciting event and I have to leave him behind. He has met so many great people and has learned so much about helping out, being independent, and respecting the art of bellydance, not to mention other beautiful arts he's been exposed to as well.

Do I sometimes feel parental guilt when I *do* leave him behind? Of course! The last trip I took was a really busy weekend for my husband and, well, let's say he dropped the parental ball a few times while I was gone. I felt awful that I couldn't be there to make sure things ran smoothly for the kiddo, but there are bumps in every road and all we can do is learn from them.

I will never have the career that the "big name" dancers do, but I don't want it. I think that right now I have a nice balance between family and career and with my husband's support and my son's understanding and enthusiasm for what I do, I don't foresee stopping anytime soon!

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

It's great that this was not your personal experience, but please be a little more considerate of the reality that many other women (including a few Bhuzzers who posted here http://www.bhuz.com/forum/off-topic/...-boob-job.html) have not shared in your good fortune of completely recovering their old bodies after childbearing, and this is only one aspect of that. If folks are dying to know, we could discuss the host of other possible postpartum health concerns, but I don't want to waste any more bandwidth. If anyone wants to read abstracts of journal articles discussing surgical correction of urinary and fecal incontinence after pelvic-floor trauma during vaginal deliveries, feel free to go to PubMed.gov and search--there's a ton of them.

Wow, you're just a bundle of sunshine, aren't you? I won't even try to guess your underlying motivations in posting so extensively to this thread when you don't appear to actually be a mom yourself.

The majority of births go swimmingly well. The pelvic floor - especially teh strong pelvic floor that we bellydancers have - heals quickly. Our bodies (women) are made for giving birth, designed for it. We are GOOD at it. Occasionally things go wrong, yes, but in the vast majority of cases, there is no long-term pelvic damage. As for breasts well...

I remind you all - we are not wearing PASTIES. We are not dancing in a nudie bar. We are wearing dance bras. Costume bras are even MORE supportive than regular bras. So, if anyone was seriously reconsidering having kids based on breast changes, please remember that most of the time you are not walking around bra-less.

I also just read this morning that breasts may recover in three years - some women have found that their fatty tissue rebounds in that time.

Saggy Breasts | Breastfeeding Problems | Breastfeeding Pumping

Hope could be ahead - I'm not going to do surgery of any kind until I wait and see how my breasts naturally recover.

On a more positive note, just wanted to say it is pretty cool how Middle Eastern dance can be something you SHARE with your child.

My son has been hearing middle eastern music in the womb and during the birth and so forth. So, to him, it's very comforting. You can comfort him by playing "Leilet Hob" at this point. He also likes to come into the dance studio and dance with me, either in my arms, or to lie down on a blanket and wiggle his arms & legs while I dance for him. I get a lot of practice in this way, and I get to work on my stage presence too (although he's an easy audience.)

as he gets older, I expect he'll enjoy going to haflis from time to time, because he really seems to dig the music and the dancing. I can't for example do yoga or a kickboxing video - but he is happy as a clam to watch me dance.

Originally Posted by Nepenthe

On a more positive note, just wanted to say it is pretty cool how Middle Eastern dance can be something you SHARE with your child.

My son has been hearing middle eastern music in the womb and during the birth and so forth. So, to him, it's very comforting. You can comfort him by playing "Leilet Hob" at this point. He also likes to come into the dance studio and dance with me, either in my arms, or to lie down on a blanket and wiggle his arms & legs while I dance for him. I get a lot of practice in this way, and I get to work on my stage presence too (although he's an easy audience.)

as he gets older, I expect he'll enjoy going to haflis from time to time, because he really seems to dig the music and the dancing. I can't for example do yoga or a kickboxing video - but he is happy as a clam to watch me dance.

this makes me so happy! I just found out I'm having a boy and I plan to dance with him in a sling until he's too heavy. :-)

Nepenthe; I breastfed my daughter for 3 years, and mine have recovered just fine. I still have a pretty nice rack for a gal my age, if I do say so myself! lol! Enjoy your little guy, they grow up too fast!

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

YMMV, of course. Mostly it comes down to genetics and how old you are. Young bodies tend to be more resilient, but if you have a predisposition to stretch marks, it's still going to trip you up. If you breastfeed for the recommended full year, you'll probably see more sagging down the road than if you dry up the milk supply as soon as the baby is born. And if you "eat for two" to the point that you put on a lot of unnecessary weight, you'll be paying for it later in loose flesh, just like any other overweight person does.

People have become so used to seeing celebrities bounce back from pregnancy looking perfect that it's easy to forget most of them are having plastic surgery to achieve that look (or at least they're being liberally Photoshopped). Sorry, but pregnancy will make changes to the flatness of your abdomen and the consistency of your breasts. It doesn't mean it won't still be attractive, but that's just the way the human body works. How much you'll be able to regain postpartum of your old look is hard to determine, but if I could unlock the secret of how to control what happens to a woman's body after she has a baby, I'd be a millionaire.

Well said.

Originally Posted by SamiraShuruk

A large part of it is genetics, yes. We can't control skin reaction etc. But a large part of it is also how much weight we gain, which with the exception of few medicals issues we are usually in control of as individuals. Eating right and exercise make a HUGE difference before, during and after pregnancy. It is more difficult- but if you're dancing a lot (as a full timer will be)- you've got the exercise component down anyway.

I'm glad you answered her on the flat belly issues, cause you would know!

Originally Posted by humdinger70

Can you be a mom and a successful dancer?

Why not? You can have it all (you may have to work at it). Who says these terms are mutually exclusive (you can have one or the other but not both, for the mathematically challenged)?

Assuming you already have the talent and the current fashion in face and body, the other issue is time (and energy). A top level dancer needs to put in many hours a day into her job (just like other women with careers). What is different is a dancer is likely to have a lot of night and weekend work and travel (if she's dancing a few hours in the afternoon no matter how great the talent she isn't a top level dancer).

So what happens to the child(ren)? A full time nanny is possible if you are a big movie star but I suspect even the top dancers don't get that sort of money. So it boils down to support by family.

So, yes it's possible if you are independently wealthy or have a capable and willing family to help with the child(ren).

not a mom myself but to answer this from a different perspective...:

my flamenco teacher, one of the most inspirational women i've ever met, is 42 and just gave birth to her 4th child. all of them have grown up with dance and the oldest and i are pretty close friends because we are close in age, and the second oldest is only 12 (the last two children are almost 2 and the other just a couple of weeks old). the two older boys are the most respectful "children" (considering the eldest is 18 and not a child really lol) i've ever met in regards to art forms such as dance: for both flamenco and bd, their mom AND dad used to bd together as well. and the eldest used to do flamenco when he was younger but then just didn't want to do it anymore, but he still has loads of respect for the artform and knows how hard it is, or any dance for that matter, so he still respects it.

and my amazing teacher danced all the way through the day she gave birth for all her children and continued literally a week after she gave birth. she looks 10 years younger than she is (people often mistake us for sisters or think i am her, apparently we look alike lol) and she is in great shape and health. and she is pretty darn successful here in the orlando area, but not to say that being an a-list dancer is/was her top goal, but rather being a great teacher was (for both her and her husband).

so to sum it up, yes it can be done, i've seen it with my own eyes :)

To Afrit09 - I guess we'll have to see what Amar Gamal, Bahaia and Michelle Joyce have to say about this.

As for myself, I interpreted "successful dancer" in the OP's question the way I interpreted it for myself. For me "successful dancer" means having the involvement in dance that will make me happy. Successful means that I get to dance a few times per month, maybe have 1-2 restaurant gigs, and my dancing "succeeds" at being enjoyable to watch. That kind of success, no doubt, you can have.

For other people here, success might mean a teaching schedule, or travelling for workshops, making DVDs, or touring internationally, or being a dancer in Egypt.

nevertheless, if you were already succeeding in that way before you have kids, I have no doubt you can make it work afterwards, the same way that I am still managing my daytime career even though I have a kid. Yes, I do have a nanny. But when I'm home with him, I take care of him - and still manage to fit in dancing, although not as much as I used to.

Nepenthe: I love your post... all of it!!

Thanks Mihri - actually I loved yours too! I loved hearing that your son at 11 years old is still digging bellydance with you.

This is a very interesting topic. Yes, you can do it. But it is a heck of a lot of work and you have to be really committed to making it work.

One of the things I struggled with before deciding to have a baby was the possibility that it would mean an end to my traveling for dance. In the year before I got pregnant I did workshops in Japan, Croatia, England, Austin, Australia, Chicago, and Virginia. I loved it. I swore to myself that no matter how difficult it was, that I would somehow integrate a baby into my life and that I would remain the same person that I was before.

I did a 4 city workshop tour of Australia when I was 5 months pregnant. I was on top of the world and really felt like I could make everything work. While I was sitting in my hotel room I posted something on the Biz of Bellydance tribe asking workshop sponsors what they would think about dancers having a childcare clause in their contracts. I wanted to know which dancers traveled with children and how that worked.

The response surprised me and upset me very deeply. I expected to have people cheering me on (there was some of that) but instead I got sorta flamed. I'm sure I was just sensitive and pregnant, but I really felt that people were implying that I was a bad mom for even considering traveling with a child (especially overseas).

Here is that thread A question for workshop sponsors: ins... - The Biz of Belly Dance - tribe.net

I actually had a conversation about this with Dondi just recently since she brings her son to her workshops all over (I plan to do the same). Obviously, going anywhere with a young child isn't that easy, but it was very inspirational to hear that she can (and does) do it.

Also, I am doing a private party next weekend. It is a 40th birthday party for a woman and I will be bringing the baby. She has arranged for someone to be available to hold the baby (in the same room) for 30 minutes while I dance. I doubt that it would be possible for a party for a man, though, since showing up with a baby doesn't really say "sexy woman of mystery"... but oh well.

Plus, I am bringing the baby to Rakkasah. That will be a pain in the butt, but I am trying to teach the baby to be comfortable at festivals and events. My theory is that is you want a baby who can be taken to gigs, then you have to just do it!

Lastly, I have had the baby at 2 DVD shoots so far. Again, it is 1,000 times more work than it used to be (lots of crying and feeding breaks), but it is possible!

Everybody is different. I actually am 5 pounds from my pre-pregnacy weight (No excuses I know lol) but I actually get hired more now than when I was not a mom. I am the head dancer at the restaurant I work at, I teach workshops finally, and direct a troupe. I'm no big name but happy. As for pregnancy, it actually made my boobs nicer. I never had a flat tummy to begin with but I have a nice curve at my waist and I feel good when I look in the mirror. Isn't that what I'm trying to teach my students anyway? To feel good about themselves?

Originally Posted by michellejoyce

This is a very interesting topic. Yes, you can do it. But it is a heck of a lot of work and you have to be really committed to making it work.

One of the things I struggled with before deciding to have a baby was the possibility that it would mean an end to my traveling for dance. In the year before I got pregnant I did workshops in Japan, Croatia, England, Austin, Australia, Chicago, and Virginia. I loved it. I swore to myself that no matter how difficult it was, that I would somehow integrate a baby into my life and that I would remain the same person that I was before.

I did a 4 city workshop tour of Australia when I was 5 months pregnant. I was on top of the world and really felt like I could make everything work. While I was sitting in my hotel room I posted something on the Biz of Bellydance tribe asking workshop sponsors what they would think about dancers having a childcare clause in their contracts. I wanted to know which dancers traveled with children and how that worked.

The response surprised me and upset me very deeply. I expected to have people cheering me on (there was some of that) but instead I got sorta flamed. I'm sure I was just sensitive and pregnant, but I really felt that people were implying that I was a bad mom for even considering traveling with a child (especially overseas).

Here is that thread A question for workshop sponsors: ins... - The Biz of Belly Dance - tribe.net

I actually had a conversation about this with Dondi just recently since she brings her son to her workshops all over (I plan to do the same). Obviously, going anywhere with a young child isn't that easy, but it was very inspirational to hear that she can (and does) do it.

Also, I am doing a private party next weekend. It is a 40th birthday party for a woman and I will be bringing the baby. She has arranged for someone to be available to hold the baby (in the same room) for 30 minutes while I dance. I doubt that it would be possible for a party for a man, though, since showing up with a baby doesn't really say "sexy woman of mystery"... but oh well.

Plus, I am bringing the baby to Rakkasah. That will be a pain in the butt, but I am trying to teach the baby to be comfortable at festivals and events. My theory is that is you want a baby who can be taken to gigs, then you have to just do it!

Lastly, I have had the baby at 2 DVD shoots so far. Again, it is 1,000 times more work than it used to be (lots of crying and feeding breaks), but it is possible!

Good for you girl! I am not a big name like you but my daughter does go with me to most of my gigs and stays with me 90% of the time when I dance at the restaurant. She is now 3.

Michelle,
Thank you for sharing your story! Your child is lucky [mine thinks he is, too :-) ] Liesa

Michelle--it does get easier when your child gets more used to the travel. I've been fortunate that Alex has learned to be very self-sufficient and that the events I've brought him to have either been family friendly with other kids for him to pal around with, events I've gone to with my troupe who all adore him and have no qualms with helping me watch him if I'm busy teaching, and events that are near family. When we go to Elevation in Colorado for example, I take him with me and he stays with my sister in Littleton when I'm at workshops.

What's really awesome to watch is how well he's become integrated into the bellydance event world. He's at the events I sponsor and he works! He's great at ticket taking and handing out programs at shows, he's done check-in at workshops for me, he carries stuff for me and has even helped our vendors load in and out. He enjoys being a part of things and really thrives in the environment because he loves hearing the expressions of gratitude and appreciation from adults.

Granted, your baby might not be at the right age to become incorporated into your business, but it's something to look forward to. It begins to turn your business into a family business and when I look back over my own childhood and starting to work for my dad at age 11 when he opened his store, I remember how great it felt to be a part of his world and learning how his business worked.

On a lighter note, because of all of our traveling together, my son has impressed many other travelers and TSA employees with his knowledge of the security gate "dance" of taking off the shoes and coat, taking out his electronics, and having liquids and gels in a plastic bag. He goes through security more quickly and comfortably than a lot of the business travelers in line!

Originally Posted by michellejoyce

This is a very interesting topic. Yes, you can do it. But it is a heck of a lot of work and you have to be really committed to making it work.

[snipped a bit for shortness]


Lastly, I have had the baby at 2 DVD shoots so far. Again, it is 1,000 times more work than it used to be (lots of crying and feeding breaks), but it is possible!

The picture is ADORABLE! I would love to have the kind of job where I could take my kid to work. Sure, I could fit a pack & play in my cube but my child is not one to sleep quietly.

I think I felt the same way when I was pregnant, that nothing would change, and I would be the same person. I think that's impossible. Things change and you are not the same person. You can't go through pregnancy, birth, and those first few months of having a child without being changed by the experience, for the better I would hope. Priorities change. But I like how you have integrated the baby into your life. I haven't done it to the same extent - my gigs are mostly late-night restaurant gigs. But I do plan to take him to some upcoming haflis.

So, it seems that other mothers agree - one can maintain a simialr level of success in bellydance to what one already had before birth. That success means something different to all of us.

I think we can all be glad you (MJ) are still at it. I'm looking forward to more dvds!

("When I was working in the high risk OB unit at a major hospital here in LA, every woman over the age of 35 was mandated to have an Alpha Fetal Protein test. (AFP) For those who don't know, this is a measure for the possibility of Downs Syndrome and is mandated by the state of California. A Genetic Counselor will sit down with the Client and explain to them, in detail, the chances of their unborn child having Downs simply because of the mothers advanced maternal age.

You have no idea how many women walked out of the office crying and berating themselves because they had waited too long to have a baby and now their child was doomed to have Downs.")

This is my reply to a dancer's quote, I still haven't figured out how everything works.:
I had a midwife with both my kids and she asked me, if I want this test, since I was already over 30 years old. But she also told me, that this test is positiv 80% of the time!
As to the original question: Why shouldn't it be? So many other women work late-shift, while the husband works early. It is stressful, especially when kids throw tantrums and you need to leave! (and I only dance in restaurants, don't even teach yet.) I think it is much harder to get to that level, since there are so many awsome dancers out there! You really need to know people, who will help you to get out there!

Michelle! What a great photo :-) And how inspiring you are to those of us growing a baby belly right now :-)

I want to know--when are you going to do a mommy & baby bellydance dvd? Cause I am first in line to buy it! I'm dying to see if I can wear my baby and get in a practice session.

Originally Posted by Nepenthe

Wow, you're just a bundle of sunshine, aren't you? I won't even try to guess your underlying motivations in posting so extensively to this thread when you don't appear to actually be a mom yourself.

Perhaps Tourbeau’s motivation is that she wants to share her knowledge because she feels that all knowledge is power. She clearly isn’t just slinging around unbacked assertions. She was asked to provide her sources and she did so.

Originally Posted by Sonja2

I dance with several women who have had multiple children who have neither stretch marks, nor saggy anything (not bellies or boobies), and whose overall hip girth has changed very little (and some of us would welcome a couple of extra inches in the hip girth arena...) These women are not celebrities who have had multiple plastic surgeries.
Looks aside, the real post was asking if it's POSSIBLE to be a mother and have a stellar dance career. The answer (not based on naive Pollyanna optimism, but based on observations of others who've made it work) is yes, it's possible. NOT easy, but possible. Then again....it is NOT easy, regardless.

Yep. :) I have what I consider to be a "normal" successful dance career ("stellar" I'll reserve for internationally touring dancers ;) ). I dance full time- mostly perform and partially teach. It's HARD work but most of the time incredibly rewarding.
Fortunately as a mother of two (who nursed both longer than "American standard"), I have not succumbed to all the things Tourbeau spoke of. There are some bodily changes we cannot alter with lifestyle, but there are some we can.

Originally Posted by toria_dances

I'm glad you answered her on the flat belly issues, cause you would know!

Thanks Toria. Soon enough you will too! ..g.:

Well,

Michelle Joyce just had a baby. Also, if you look at her cheekygirlproduction.com site, about the dancers, you'll see that a lot of them have become moms, and they've published DVDs as well as done many workshops.

So I don't see any clear evidence to the contrary.

But also, whether it's being a mom and an attorney or a bellydancer, I think if you've got the will and well reasons to do it, I don't see why not!

And plus, being a mom and a bellydancer seems to go perfectly together. :)

i actually looked into offering paid child care AT the venues where i teach during class time. all these lovely plans and ideas always chattered on liability/insurance issues

as a wokshop sponsor, i think i would be willing to work around things like michelle suggested, but my fear would be, what if the child is ill, will the teacher leave it at home and come alone, or not come alone, or travel with a sick child. and then again we arrive at the same liability issues (here a child that is ill cannot stay in child care, not sure about private child miners, but it would be an issue)/

i've seen dancers with babies attending workshops, i've had a dancer with baby attending workshops i organised, well, and as soon as she DOES leave the room WITH baby when it gets fussy, i dont mind. it would annoy me if the kid would be noisy/runnung around.

Originally Posted by artemisia_danst

i've seen dancers with babies attending workshops, i've had a dancer with baby attending workshops i organised, well, and as soon as he DOES leave the room WITH baby when it gets fussy, i dont mind. it would annoy me if the kid would be noisy/runnung around.

My concern would be the cultivation of the attitude of, "Well, since the teacher brought her/his child, I figured nobody would mind if I brought mine..." Children have different temperaments and some are more suited to behaving at a workshop than others. By the same token, parents have varying degrees of understanding of what constitutes time to discipline a child or remove a child from a situation and when a sick child needs to be kept home. Having been at church services where parents decided their precious howling baby didn't need to be taken to the crying room and at school events where toddlers ran wild because the parents were preoccupied with their own activities, I am very skeptical of what a workshop could turn into if participants were encouraged to think they had the option to skip the babysitter.