Thread: A studet asked me what style do I teach?

My answer doesn't matter. The point behind the question does. This was a student who took 1 1/2 years lessons from a teacher in Chicago. I don't know who the teacher was. After 6 weeks with me she approached me and said what style of dance did I teach? She said after a year and half of lessons in Chicago, she played finger cymbal patterns, swanned around with a veil, but had never actually MOVED and DANCED to the music!!!!!
She was astonished that not only did I do drills, I actually taught a choreo to a beginner class that included traveling steps etc.

I know my beginner class is pretty hard core. I was trained by the bouncing butt method so I tend toward pushing my students harder then I know most beginning classes do. I recently upgraded my training schedule to make it more diffucult but more fun at the same time and lo and behold, my retention rate is about 99%! The best I've ever had!

But just curious? What do you think is reasonable for a 10 week course?

It's an interesting question; back in the day no one asked! I think, by and large, it doesn't matter in a beginning class. Everyone needs to learn isolation, rhythm, zills(I argue that they're necessary!),cultural background. The real divisions shouldn't matter much at first. Of course, that's just my take.

Well, it is not the most unreasonable thing to ask, and it shows that the student has an interest in doing the right thing. She probably has tried to read up, and knows that there are different styles within Oriental - isn't that a good thing? Sure, she may think that she knows more than she does, but hey, hubris is the privilege of youth ;-)

Originally Posted by kahaz

It's an interesting question; back in the day no one asked! I think, by and large, it doesn't matter in a beginning class. Everyone needs to learn isolation, rhythm, zills(I argue that they're necessary!),cultural background. The real divisions shouldn't matter much at first. Of course, that's just my take.

It's true that every student needs to start with the fundamentals, but the basics of tribal exist in a different world than the core material for traditional belly dance. Those are differences that can put you into habits that you'll need a substantial and conscious effort to break to go from one style to another. There are also the surrounding cultural issues. My understanding is that people who are into modern (non-ATS) tribal don't really spend much time talking about Middle Eastern music and other aspects of the dance in its indigenous presentations--things that are important to the traditional forms, but not so much if you want to do avant garde, isolation-driven fusion to Western music. The habits you have to break to go from Egyptian style to Turkish style are noticeable, but they are more like stylistic variations. Contemporary tribal may as well be an offshoot of modern dance or hip hop the way some performers approach it. There's some overlap, but it can be an entirely different ball game--and there's nothing wrong with trying to establish those differences up front.

Ultimately, I think "What style do you teach?" is a completely valid question for a prospective student to ask. If you have done a little research before signing up for classes (a good idea any time you invest money in a new pursuit), it's quite reasonable to determine if a teacher matches what you want to learn. I know I discussed style with each of my weekly teachers before I signed up to study with them.

As for the student who called Norma...there's not really anywhere to go with that except to restart the discussion about standards and the need for quality control in our educational system.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

My understanding is that people who are into modern (non-ATS) tribal don't really spend much time talking about Middle Eastern music and other aspects of the dance in its indigenous presentations--things that are important to the traditional forms, but not so much if you want to do avant garde, isolation-driven fusion to Western music.

From my experience, few of the "traditional" teachers I've taken classes with ever approached the topic of music. The ones that did, did not go into it with as much depth as I would have liked. So I don't think this is unique to tribal.

Originally Posted by yameyameyame

From my experience, few of the "traditional" teachers I've taken classes with ever approached the topic of music. The ones that did, did not go into it with as much depth as I would have liked. So I don't think this is unique to tribal.

That's absolutely true, but AFAIC, if you are teaching a traditional style of the dance, you're not giving your students a proper education if you aren't including those subjects. To me, this falls under the "Two Wrongs Don't Make a Right" category.

it sounds like she's confusing a different level of teaching and expectations and dance with a different style. i've heard a lot of people say "i don't like tribal" because they had only seen bad tribal and good "cabaret", as the years went on and they saw good tribal and bad "cabaret" their opinion changed. (i've heard the same happen with the styles reversed) it sounds like a similar thing is happening, where she thinks because you're teaching good dancing it's a different style. (course i haven't seen your students or her old teacher, just what it sounds like )
when i came back to my hometown after college and was looking for a teacher, i came across one who said they teach "authentic bellydance" and given that there are different stances on what that is i asked what style she meant "do you mean American restaurant? or Egyptian Oriental? or Turkish?" and she stammered, and just replied "i teach authentic bellydance...." and described all the props they covered in beginner class. it's a very legit question IMO. not only is it nice to know what you're learning (i thought my first dvd was tribal because they didn't wear bedlah. i was wrong! ^_~) but if you're not familiar with the class you can gauge if the teacher actually knows wtf they're teaching.

Originally Posted by norma

But just curious? What do you think is reasonable for a 10 week course?

Well, if a student takes a dance class and doesn't learn much in the way of dance movement, then I think something is definitely missing.

In a 10-week beginner course, I'd expect to teach a minimum of 15 separate movements and variations on those movements that are appropriate for beginners; travel; talk at least a bit about music and stylistic varieties; beat the students over the head about posture.

So, yeah, we'd be dancing.

Deborah

Sorry for all my typos in my OP. Anyway, the student was very complimentary to me but I've had this come up before. The majority of my students are 1st timers. I had the majority of my training with an Arabic instructor, the bouncing butt method where we just dived into it!

So, occassionally I do come across a student who has taken classes elsewhere, and the impression I get is that the class is way too easy. I'm sure most of these students have been exposed to the 6 week Suzie Nipple Tassles wonder. But I am curious as to what serious dancers consider to be appropriate for a beginner class? I tailored my beginner class to be very progressive but I still consider it to be very basic.

Originally Posted by casbahdance

Well, if a student takes a dance class and doesn't learn much in the way of dance movement, then I think something is definitely missing.

In a 10-week beginner course, I'd expect to teach a minimum of 15 separate movements and variations on those movements that are appropriate for beginners; travel; talk at least a bit about music and stylistic varieties; beat the students over the head about posture.

So, yeah, we'd be dancing.

Deborah

That's pretty much where I'm at. I was shocked when she said she took lessons for a year and a half and never traveled!!!!

My classes always begin the combo portion with an announcement of the song we're dancing to, the name, at least a rough translation so we know the mood of the song and often about the rhythm (masmoudi, chifti, khaleeji etc).
Yame...may I suggest that you ask more 'in depth' questions if you've got em? As a teacher, I welcome questions from students for just this reason!

My first teacher taught us the moves and whatever moves she taught us that day she also did combinations just with those steps. We loved it. Even though it wasn't a whole choreo, we felt like we were applying what we learned to the music itself.

I am amazed that this student learned zills and veil but never traveled with it! How she was able to stay with a class like this for so long is mystifying to me - I would've been bored out of my mind. I too like the "follow the dancing butt" method.

Originally Posted by Fotia

My first teacher taught us the moves and whatever moves she taught us that day she also did combinations just with those steps. We loved it.

This is how I structure beginning classes, too.

There's no choreo to memorize, but there is definitely a feeling of accomplishment at the end of the class!

Deborah

I am totally not a fan of the just-follow-what-I-do method of teaching. I want to know what muscles are being used, what the movement is called, etc. I want to be taught how to do the move, not try to guess what the teacher's doing, and hope I can catch onto it fast enough to stay with her from move to move. (I can do that with a DVD!). ..g.:

The classes I enjoy the most involve learning separate moves and then practicing putting them together to music, learning how to transition from one move to the next and matching moves and transitions to the mood of the music. Also, learning short combinations and, again, practicing how they feel to different pieces of music. Does this one work in a slow part? Can I make this one flirty, fun or sad? That kind of stuff.

Originally Posted by Fotia

My first teacher taught us the moves and whatever moves she taught us that day she also did combinations just with those steps. We loved it. Even though it wasn't a whole choreo, we felt like we were applying what we learned to the music itself.

I am amazed that this student learned zills and veil but never traveled with it! How she was able to stay with a class like this for so long is mystifying to me - I would've been bored out of my mind. I too like the "follow the dancing butt" method.

hehe, maybe im weird, but i was perfectly happy to stay in 3 sq ft of space and i needed things broken down. i took almost a year of "follow the bouncing butt" and the teacher was injuring her students because they didn't learn proper posture and she never taught them to not crunch their lower backs (esp hip circles).
i think another teacher could do it and not hurt people, im not trying to bash the entire method, but i think some class formats work for some people and not others.

Originally Posted by raqFariha

hehe, maybe im weird, but i was perfectly happy to stay in 3 sq ft of space and i needed things broken down. i took almost a year of "follow the bouncing butt" and the teacher was injuring her students because they didn't learn proper posture and she never taught them to not crunch their lower backs (esp hip circles).
i think another teacher could do it and not hurt people, im not trying to bash the entire method, but i think some class formats work for some people and not others.

She brought us along according to how we learned it and after we properly learned it. It was the moving to the music that was exciting. Even if we only did two or three movements, she would make us feel that we were dancing. Luckily, she also was a physical fitness major and knew how to teach us correctly. And that is soooooo important.

Originally Posted by MirandaPhoenix

I am totally not a fan of the just-follow-what-I-do method of teaching. I want to know what muscles are being used, what the movement is called, etc. I want to be taught how to do the move, not try to guess what the teacher's doing, and hope I can catch onto it fast enough to stay with her from move to move. (I can do that with a DVD!). ..g.:

The classes I enjoy the most involve learning separate moves and then practicing putting them together to music, learning how to transition from one move to the next and matching moves and transitions to the mood of the music. Also, learning short combinations and, again, practicing how they feel to different pieces of music. Does this one work in a slow part? Can I make this one flirty, fun or sad? That kind of stuff.

That's how I teach. Although I do use a choreo. Even though I learned the bouncing butt method I don't teach that way. The moves aren't that hard. It's learning to apply them and the transitions are the trickiest but key to becoming a dancer!

Not to knock the bouncing butt method. That was how I was taught and I loved it. Most native dancers teach that way due to language barriers, etc. And a talented student can catch on. Language is not a barrier to study of movement. But the average majority of students need a broken down explanation of which foot goes where and when.

Originally Posted by Fotia

I am amazed that this student learned zills and veil but never traveled with it! .

Same strange trend as Norma described here too.

I teach beginners and intermediates, sometimes I get students that has to start all over.

They´ve gone up to intermediate level and performed with veils and wings for example,or drum solos without ONE SINGLE TRAVELING STEP.p::

Why god,why?

i have short follow the bouncing butt portions in each class (in a circle however), but the majority of the beginners class is

- warm up & posture check
- dance along (with the moves from last week)
- break down a new basic move or two
- drill and correct and add arms or feet
- a more music oriented exercise, or an easy traveling step, or a duet exercise, something making it dance not steps
- follow the bouncing butt and teacher incorporates the new stuff
- speed cool down...

Maybe we should consider offering 'bellydance rehab' classes - as I have also had more than a few students who came to me as trainwrecks from other teachers.

As for teaching, I do a combination of muscular breakdown and follow the bouncing butt. Like most ballet & modern dance classes, I incorporate crossing the floor from class #2 - it starts off with simple walking and builds from there. I can't imagine someone taking 1 1/2 years of lessons and not knowing how to travel.