Thread: other teachers taking your classes

I think this has been discussed before, but i cant find it back right away.

would you let other teachers take your classes? i'm not talking about your own advanced students who start teaching, but are (naturally/hopefully) still continuing classes with you ad others, but dancers you dont really know, and they want to take your (beginners) classes...

am sort of making up my own mind about this and so far i've also had a very open approach to this (as in everyone who wants to learn what i'm teaching... is more than welcome, at whatever level they are at, and afterwards they can do with the material whatever they want, nothing is "mine"...)

Artemisia

Yes I let them in - if they are willing to come and be taught by me then I'm willing to teach them. I'm generally more generous to teachers who are up front at being teachers themselves than the one time I found out the teacher who came, never told me who she was and then stole all my material to teach zills herself. If she had told me thats what she was doing I would have (probably) given her more material. And then perhaps her classes wouldn't have folded?

I've got 4 other teachers coming to my classes at the moment ( well from tonight when term restarts) - I make sure they are (quietly) pushed a bit harder out of their comfort zones than other students - but thats just my mean streak.

Emma

I must admit it would worry me slightly if I had another teacher in my class. Just because I'm still rather uncomfortable teaching and really worry (a lot) about whether I'm doing it right/well, etc. Also the political climate in my local scene has historically ranged from bad to *very* bad, so I would kind of instantly be suspicious. Which is sad.

However, my classes are public. Anyone who wants to come is welcome, for whatever reasons they wish. I know not everyone is going to like me, my personality or my style. Some people *might* want to slate me or "spy" or whatever, but none of that really matters. I'm out there in a public venue teaching a public class. At the moment, my only class is actually through a college, and THEY decide who joins, not me. So I'd just have to grin and bear it!

The only time that it would really bother me that I had a teacher in my class would be if their behaviour in class was disruptive - if they were overly (and/or unpleasantly) argumentative, were teaching/correcting my students at the back of the class, etc - but that holds true for ANYone in class, not just visiting teachers.

I allow teachers in my classes. Just as other teachers allow me in their classes. I know for me, I go to class in between my sessions if my schedule allows for the social aspect. I enjoy dancing without having to come up with a class plan. I am friends with the teacher and her students. I always have a great time! I have never taught another teachers material. Some times we have overlapping students, so it would never even cross my mind. I probably get to take a class a few times a year anyway.

Nilaja

I agree with Emma as far as being more open to teach them when they are up front about being teachers themselves. I have often had other teachers in regular classes and workshops. They come in because they have seen something that I do differently from them and they want to learn it.
Its worked out most of the time and its interesting to see where your influences end up.

This is so tricky. Theoretically, I think a teacher should be continuing her education with regular classes. In reality, politics and fear make it difficult to do so.

I think having another local teacher in my class would make me nervous, unless we were friendly and she had called me beforehand to say she'd be coming and why.

Since I mostly teach through Park & Recs, I doubt I could turn anyone away who had paid their fee. I wouldn't mind it though, because I'm hardly teaching anything groundbreaking, especially in my drill-oriented beginner class. If they want to see how I teach an ommi, they can have at it. I think the success of my classes is so much more than just how I break down a move; it's more that I provide an class atmosphere that manages to be fun but not fluffy, and my ability to communicate the material to many different types of personalities and learners. I don't think that's really something that another teacher could "steal" from me, simple by observing me in class.

I don't have a problem with teachers in my class. I usually get teachers when I teach finger cymbals or sword specialty workshops....
I've had a few in my regular classes now and again over the years.

artemisia said:

but dancers you dont really know, and they want to take your (beginners) classes...

I would be curious to know why a teacher would want to take your beginners class, UNLESS it was for a prop that maybe they haven't used before, BUT for dancing, hmmm sounds odd to me.

Well, anyone can come pay the fee and take my classes. I offer a service and people pay for it--for that hour they will get a class no matter who they are or what they do with the rest of their time!

I would be flattered if other pros or teachers wanted to take my classes. I don't see why they would not mention their own experience, and I do ask about previous dance training on my new student intake form, but sharing is not required for admission into my studio.

I also do a few trades with teachers in other dance disciplines (they take my class and I get to take theirs) and I love it!

That's my achilles heel, I am WAY to trusting....I never think about these things.
My best friend is constantly getting on me for it.

It's not in my nature to be suspicious, and when I am, and rightly so, it feels ugly to me.

*sigh*

I wouldn't be worried about someone 'stealing' my techniques, for reasons like Galatea mentioned.

What makes me wary is

- Teachers who pretend to be your friend/student then badmouth you to their students, and the more info they collect the more stories they can embellish. ("and then she does this" riotous laughter) I know these teachers exist, I've seen them with my own eyes.

- Teachers who might use your classes (before/after classtime) to recruit students for their classes. Theoretically, if your students are happy, there's not much risk, but if the other teacher is undercutting your pricing, it could be a problem. In any event, it's inappropriate and makes me feel skeevy.

OTOH, I'm wary of teachers who are so suspicious/protective that they don't allow any other teachers at all in their classes. I think I'd just teach them, and deal with whatever fallout exist.

There are definitely teachers, well known ones, in this area who regularly bad mouth everyone else. How do I know? When the students come to my class, they tell me. I just say,

"I'm sorry to hear that" and quickly change the subject.

I NEVER EVER badmouth other teachers to my students. In the end, it comes back to haunt you. No matter what.

If you are so insecure that you need to badmouth to try to retain students, or think you are doing it for some "greater good" then you have a problem.

one time i had a local teacher come to my class she LOUDLY criticized my curriculum all night & then passed out business cards. she was a substitute teacher for a local teacher & methinks she thought this was cute. i don't hold it against her teacher i suspect she didn't know.

i had a situation once where a gal who had been in my class twice grabed up a handful of handouts one night & declared "this will help me get hired at the local gym!!" never saw her again & yes heard she was bd teaching at a local gym.


it never occurred to me anybody would be this rude. now when i see a hipscarf come outa a purse or the person appears to vaguely know a move i put them on the spot & ask. if i hadn't had such a bad experiences i wouldn't care but now i do.

FYI when i go take class i email the instructor first. i intro myself & i ask her what level she wants me in & go from there. in class i say ZERO about my class/performances etc. i also do what the teacher says even if it is completely different from what i do etc. in that situation for an hour she is my boss. THAT is respect.

so no i'm not real open to other bders coming into my class unless they afford me respect also. i have had dancers approach me correctly & they have been long time students afterwards. tina

("and then she does this" riotous laughter)

Ha ha ha Lauren- sorry, that just gave me the giggles- I am visualizing this in my mind with a whole classroom full of people laughing their heads off...yes, if only we could be a fly on the wall sometimes.

tina,
that is unbelievable. the rudeness of people is just amazing.
I'd be suspicious too after those experiences......

I've taken other dancers workshops, and they KNOW I teach, so I guess I've never had to email them privately about it.
Re: I've taken double veil workshops with other teachers.....

Originally Posted by tattood1

i also do what the teacher says even if it is completely different from what i do etc. in that situation for an hour she is my boss. THAT is respect.

I agree that this is so important. While I haven't had other teachers take my class, I ceratinly get a fair amount of students who have taken belly dance with other instructors. I usually mention somewhere in my patter the first class, that different teachers use different techniques/terminology, and that if they've taken BD before, they may find some things about my class material, well...different.

Normally, I have no problems, but I did have one student who argued with me in front of the entire class because I used a different name for a move than she was familiar with. The kicker was that she had learned the move from a *video*, not a live teacher - I'm fuzzy on the details as it was a while ago, but I recall it was some goddess-ey type of name for an ommi (an infinity circle, maybe? Sounded like something from a Dolphina instructional ,r:; ). Interestingly, she was also visibly peeved if I corrected her posture, telling her to stand with her legs a but closer together.

Originally Posted by *maria*

tina,
that is unbelievable. the rudeness of people is just amazing.
I'd be suspicious too after those experiences......

I've taken other dancers workshops, and they KNOW I teach, so I guess I've never had to email them privately about it.
Re: I've taken double veil workshops with other teachers.....

Workshops are a whole different animal. I think you expect other teachers & pros at a workshop or special topic class.

workshop is different since that tends to be a cross section of the bd com. everybody throws down flyers etc. class is different. i'm currently taking beg. bd in LA & only the teacher knows my experience level. tina

yup i do a patter too about "no standardized terminology". i have made an effort to use uuhh terms that are generally used though.

yup i ask about former teachers AND what videos they have used. i just want to KNOW so i understand why they are doing or not doing things. it's not a judgement.

right now i'm dealing with RB mania. i like RB but i have to politely explain she's kinda a one of a kind???!! it's nice people get inspired by her youtube clips but i always feel kinda bitchy trying to get them to understand that with me they will learn some basics they need to know, period, no matter what style they choose. THEN they can pursue RB dreams. tina

WOW. Crazy experiences. I can see why that is an issue.

I do have a section on my class card (that all new students fill out) about previous training in dance. And if someone has clearly had dance or belly dance classes before--we can tell!--I generally talk to them after class to say hello and find out where they have taken. I do this mostly because I am interested and because it helps me to guide them better in class if I know where they are coming from. I try to maintain a very open atmosphere in my classes from day one. I am in charge, but I give and get respect.

As far as teachers talking trash about other teachers or dancers or styles, I would never, ever do it in class. I am sure there are folks in my area who do it, but that is not my problem.

If/when I go to another local-ish belly dance class I always let them know ahead of time and make sure that they are okay with me there. Most of the time I prefer on on one coaching, anyway.

in class i say ZERO about my class/performances etc. i also do what the teacher says even if it is completely different from what i do etc. in that situation for an hour she is my boss. THAT is respect.

Oh hell yeah--that goes without saying. Well, apparently it doesn't but it should!

I can come into this topic with a little different perspective. I am a teacher that takes beginner/intermediate classes. Granted, they are at the studio I teach in but I do take them to keep on top of things, and for the socializing. I do not undermine my instructor, she has been at it longer and knows more than me by far, nor do I expect special attention from her. The rest of the class also knows that I'm a teacher. It's made for a couple moments where I've been uncomfortable because if they see she is helping someone else, I've been asked for help a couple times. If I observe someone in class that needs extra help, I pull my instructor aside and mention it quietly to her because often enough, her classes are large and she can't see everyone at all times, but that is only when what I see them doing could be harmful to their bodies (for example, a girl last year was twisting way way way too far on a simple hip lift and hyper extending alot). But I keep it all very discreet.


Now, from the teacher side, I would be extremely suspicious if a teacher took my class but only because I teach girls and teens. ..l;, If they came with their daughter to my mother/daughter classes then I'd be fine with them there.

on the risk of sounding like an idiot, what/who is RB?
I know once I hear it, I'll go DUH!

Rachel Brice

Originally Posted by theesfield

Rachel Brice

DUH!

Originally Posted by tattood1

right now i'm dealing with RB mania. i like RB but i have to politely explain she's kinda a one of a kind???!!

a little ot, sorry:
i like rb as well. she is very agile and smooth.
but when newbies think that is the one and only way to tribal bd, it makes me sad because that is only one point in the tribal continuum. there is a whole universe of bd to be explored!

i think the tribal bible should be mandatory homework reading for students who want to learn tribal. that way they will have some knowledge of the history of ats and how things developed to the current state.

i guess i wish more students were interested in education about the history and development of the different styles of bd.

back to topic: that is why i think it can be a good thing if other teachers take your class. if you offer historical / educational info along with the movements [as lauren described in another thread] then it can be great if the teacher taking your class learns this info and passes it on to her students.

I'm another instructor who really enjoys being a student. I've studied with some excellent instructors, most recently, Zayna. She knows that I teach and has been very supportive of me in every way. I rave about her to my students as well.

I enjoy the discipline of attending a regular class since I rarely find or make the time to rehearse on my own. I also love the friendships I form in these classes and the feeling of group "pride" when performing the instructor's choreography with my classmates.

I have been very honored to have another instructor attend one of my workshops. I would feel the same way about an instructor who attended my classes. I do have former troupemates who now attend my level 2 class which drives me to run the type of class I would enjoy taking.

It's so awful that some people make such unethical choices (like some of those mentioned above). In the long run I feel they not only hurt themselves but also the belly dance community and that's sad.
I think however, with good intentions, such as brushing up on the basics, taking a beginner class is good for all level dancers.

i agree, and it's because most of us do bump into people like that at some point of our carreer, that there's the danger we start getting suspicious of just about anything... i prefer to keep on being naive i think, yes, i'll get burned, but i'd rather have it that way than to go through life being paranoid... so i usually prefer giving people the benefit of the doubt (english?), hence an open door policy for everything i do...

somebody told me offline that for example in ballet it's very normal that teachers and pro's take beginners and all levels classes left right and centre to keep up their skills/as training, etc. it would be nice if we (bellydancers) had a culture like that too.

i also agree that classes are much more than steps and choreo's, or rather should be, as someone else pointed out. hey, from a lot of the people i travel to take their workshops i'd be ever so gratefull to take their beginners classes, they have a lot more to offer than "steps". maybe it's because for a lot of people class is very much about "learning new steps", that they dont want to take beginners classes anymore. if only they'd let me, there's a few people around here i'd love to take some drop ins with, but that would be frowned upon, the culture just isnt there to do that.

Artemisia

Originally Posted by SamiraShuruk

It's so awful that some people make such unethical choices (like some of those mentioned above). In the long run I feel they not only hurt themselves but also the belly dance community and that's sad.
I think however, with good intentions, such as brushing up on the basics, taking a beginner class is good for all level dancers.

I have been thinking about this thread all week.

I teach out of a studio that offers classes in many other styles of dance, including a large adult ballet program. It is home to a choreographer with a professional touring company (Alonzo King), and his dancers take class and rehearse there daily. There are also quite a few ballet classes for non- and pre-professionals, from basic to advanced.

Most of the studio's teachers are former or current pro dancers themselves. In the teacher's lounge on breaks and before class, they always talk about the classes they attended that morning, last night or over the weekend. Always. And they are attending each other's classes. They are teaching and taking at other studios and schools. As working teachers they go to other teacher's classes all the time for their own practice, strengthening, upkeep, whatever.

I know the ballet world is different than ours. And I am sure it is not idyllic, that there are petty jealousies, perceived threats, and real back stabbers. But going to class regularly is seen as an important part of a teacher's continuing education at best, or practice at the least. And I love that!

I think in belly dance it is a bit different. We often teach part time and are independent (renting space, utilizing home studios). We often do all of our own promotion, and along with income our classes are very much a labor of love and personal commitment. We are often wrapped up personally in our business, and if no one shows up to class no one is (likely) going to pay us just for being there ready to go. It can be scary.

(oh boy, over the limit, continued below...)