Thread: Dina Style- What do you think?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zq3FvBfpSE]YouTube - belly dance asi haskal workshop - dina style[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTdUMcztpqo]YouTube - Tatia Orient Class Dina Style Choreo[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-bMcj-bjmE]YouTube - Tatia Master Class Dina Style 01[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ephnAx0vGe4&feature=related]YouTube - Tatia Master Class Dina Style 02[/ame]


I don't know, maybe she gave her permission but but if not....
Great imitations though.

hmmm interesting!! I love how "Dina" is an adjective now! ;-)

Interesting....but I'll take somebody with their own style over a second-rate imitation of someone else, any day. Good imitation, but I'm afraid it doesn't quite touch the real deal! Just my $0.02, of course ,r:;

eep...this Tatia person is completely missing the point... way too jerky and hoppy to resemble Dina in any way.

If nothing else it is an indication of just what a force Dina is. I wonder what she would say about this?

It's funny, I can never seem to relay to my Arab friends what a big deal she is to us. They just don't see it at all.

But maybe one day there will be lots of classes like this. I'd take a Suheir or Taheya Crioca style class. lol

Originally Posted by Sarahamh

eep...this Tatia person is completely missing the point... way too jerky and hoppy to resemble Dina in any way.

That's what I was thinking! She's moving too much. Then again, it's "Dina-style," so I guess the suffix -style implies "inspired by," not an exact replica ,r:;

Originally Posted by SatinWorship19

That's what I was thinking! She's moving too much. Then again, it's "Dina-style," so I guess the suffix -style implies "inspired by," not an exact replica ,r:;

Yeah, I hear ya, but still ..l;, How you get from Dina to that?
Still, I guess Dina-style fills workshop slots!

Didn't get it.

However, in that first vid -- the short-haired brunette in the red in the front row....looks alot like me! I did a double-take "gee, did I take a workshop in an out-of-body experience?

Originally Posted by Sarahamh

eep...this Tatia person is completely missing the point... way too jerky and hoppy to resemble Dina in any way.

A bit like Dina on speed. A lot of her moves are there but far too fast and too busy. Unlike Dina she doesn't give the audience time to breathe.

PS See the real thing in Sydney 20-22 August

What was wrong with the old system--you know, where people who were obsessed with Dina just watched her videos over and over until they could dance along with them?

Originally Posted by SamarDahab

I don't know, maybe she gave her permission but but if not....

This. Promoting something with someone's name without their permission is not quite right.

Originally Posted by JeanneLF

This. Promoting something with someone's name without their permission is not quite right.

I don't know...I see it all the time for Suhaila's glute technique.

I'm not a huge fan of Dina but she knows how to dance even if her costumes are somewhat questionnable. But if someone is going to use her choreography, I think it's nice to ask. I did this with one of my vids - I got written permission and I always credit the choreographers. Just to keep it above board and friendly. I certainly didn't dance as well as the original choreographer but it was fun nonetheless.

And yes, I do believe Dina is being used as an adjective for a dance style! Which is a compliment to her.

Hmm...when you attach a famous dancer's name to your style (or a style you teach), you're opening yourself up for some criticisms. I understand what they're trying to do, but if they're going to put her name on it, it better look like Dina!

"Dance like XXXX" is quite common in my neck of the woods. It's a way to get to understand a famous dancer's styling and signature moves. Now not everyone is going to be able to do their title justice, but...

People here also teach work they learned with overseas master teachers all the time. They acknowledge whose work it is, and the changes they've made. Well, OK, some people just claim they made the dance up themselves while calling it a 'dancer X choreography', possibly because they never actually WORKED with dancer X except via video and call me cynical but I anticipate the choreography is in fact based closely on the video... but *ethical* dancers do teach choreographies they learned from master teachers with full credit. This is because in some parts of the world it is not feasible for every dancer to study with these master teachers and it would be ridiculous for us to study with them and then go "oh we can't teach you anything they taught us though, please continue standing there doing a figure 8."

Is any of this stuff an actual choreo BY Dina? In which case, if she wasn't personally taught it by Dina, then yes there is some grounds for frowning and finger pointing. Is it just someone's take on a famous dancer? Then you can frown and say "she's doing it wrong" but you can't really say she's not *allowed*. It's a compliment to the dancer and as everyone has said, it's marketing. Nobody thinks twice about saying "Rachel Brice combos" or "Amar Gamal moves", or indeed "Samia/Tahia style".

I've seen people advertise teaching Reda-style moves for workshops. Is this a new trend to learn a specific person's styling rather than a region's or a particular dance?

Originally Posted by indigostars

I've seen people advertise teaching Reda-style moves for workshops. Is this a new trend to learn a specific person's styling rather than a region's or a particular dance?

I wouldn't be surprised. In fact, I think most people would be very interested in that type of workshop, just like the Reda-inspired ones.

Originally Posted by indigostars

I've seen people advertise teaching Reda-style moves for workshops. Is this a new trend to learn a specific person's styling rather than a region's or a particular dance?

I think so, yes. I think it's marketing - it's similar to the "hot combos" trend, where you learn a bunch of combinations to take away to add to your own dancing, except for how you never actually do and they often don't fit anyway, *but* they can be good learning tools and building blocks.

I also think it reflects a recognition that what we once thought was an authentic Bedouin hagallah dance, we now realise is a Reda choreograpy, and people are trying to be a bit more truthful in marketing when they go "here are Reda folkloric moves". Plus those of us who like Egyptian dance know that folklore is really influential in the styles of today's top dancers, and so we are keen to get some of that too.

I think there is a very strong trend 'back to the roots' in globalised BD. People are starting to go "hey, I like American Cabaret! I'm going back there!" or "why no more Turkish? I want Turkish!" - EVEN tribal fusion dancers are getting into "vintage cabaret" and I would about guarantee other tribal dancers are going to get a yen for a turban and some straight improv soon. In Egyptian it's Golden Age and Reda.

I see it as a marketing gimmick, a way to stand out from all of the other workshops and classes out there, much like special certifications, etc.

I think that it could be useful if someone thoughtfully used it as an opening to teaching stage presence, and personality perhaps. But I'd then move into having students develop their own. But as a stand alone dance technique? I don't think so. But then again people are getting away with far worse out there I'm sure. There is nothing new under the sun.

Tammy

I enjoy her dancing : ) I don't think it's a 100% Dina but I like it!

Originally Posted by JeanneLF

This. Promoting something with someone's name without their permission is not quite right.

I agree 100%. Dina owns the right to use her name, no one else. Unless you've licensed it from her. Call it 'Modern Cairo style' if you like and include lots of Dina-styling, but don't market it using an individual's name that you don't have the rights to.

Even when people are no longer living, I think it's offensive to use them in that way. I like the way Shareen El Safy does it. She might teach a 'Golden Era' choreography and she'll give credit to dancers for certain signature moves. That seems more respectful to me.

Hmm. I am on the fence about this. I like learning (and teaching) specific dancer stylizations in class, and I think studying and trying to interpret music like other dancers has great value as a learning tool (ideally towards finding ones own voice within the form!). Lord knows I have danced (okay, and stumbled!) along to my share of old Fifi Abdo and Naima Akef and Taheya Carioca and Lucy videos. But a whole workshop on a style of a dancer *who is still actively performing and teaching herself*? Not sure about that.

That said, I might take it if it were part of a larger series of classes with a teacher I liked, or as part of a larger context of styles, or something like that. Some of my favorite teachers are really skilled at seeing what a dancer is doing and then breaking it down (Shareen El Safy, for example). I really value that (and the fact that they credit their inspiration...here is to honesty in advertising).

So I don't see actual harm in it, certainly, though as someone said above it would be really interesting to find out what Dina thinks of it.

Hm, I would be interested as a student. Her name is a huge draw, but then again who tells me I'm getting the real deal?
I never trust people who claim that they can pull off a style somebody else is famous for, as if that person's individuality was just a matter of deliberation.
And the thing with Dina it is not to be copied. "Just" the moves are not enough to make another Dina. I love her way of seeming to be a total mess, like she's all over the place emotionally and conceptually, but then her dancing is so tight and on the spot, that makes her interesting.

The other issue is that Dina herself is out there teaching workshops on "Dina Style." Maybe it made sense in the pre-Internet days to teach "Reda Style" workshops, when videos weren't widely available and opportunities to study with him personally were mostly the province of dancers who were dedicated, talented, and wealthy enough to pick up and move to Egypt, but, geez, who doesn't have access to resources to watch how Dina dances today? Unless Dina has started her own official training/licensing program, there's just something parasitic about this.

I didnt like her performace clip at all - no feeling and a sullen expression that ruined the whole thing. She has all the moves but her arms are weak. Uninspired.

Originally Posted by Reinaa

I enjoy her dancing : ) I don't think it's a 100% Dina but I like it!

Me too. A little athletic, and sure, she's not Dina but she's another dancer doing her own dancing to a Dina choreography.

I don't think I would trust someone to really be able to teach Dina-style unless they had studied intensely with Dina herself - like one on one for many years. Is this someone who has just taken a workshop or two, watched some video clips and now thinks she has absorbed enough of Dina's style to actually teach workshops on it?

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

The other issue is that Dina herself is out there teaching workshops on "Dina Style." Maybe it made sense in the pre-Internet days to teach "Reda Style" workshops, when videos weren't widely available and opportunities to study with him personally were mostly the province of dancers who were dedicated, talented, and wealthy enough to pick up and move to Egypt, but, geez, who doesn't have access to resources to watch how Dina dances today? Unless Dina has started her own official training/licensing program, there's just something parasitic about this.

I was wondering would Dina go to Israel to teach workshops?

On the other hand I'd say real Dina's teaching is something for pros, especially after reading about the workshop in Dallas(?).
Intermediate and advanced students can take a "Dina-Workshop" to get acquainted with some of her moves, maybe also get some information about Dina-as-a-phenomenon from the teacher...like: oh everybody talks about that dancer I want to know-thing. not like you immediately pack your suitcase and go to Cairo.

I don't think anyone who did a "Dina-style" workshop will really believe that now he/she can dance like Dina so that Dina would run out of business.

Originally Posted by Nouria

I was wondering would Dina go to Israel to teach workshops?

On the other hand I'd say real Dina's teaching is something for pros, especially after reading about the workshop in Dallas(?).
Intermediate and advanced students can take a "Dina-Workshop" to get acquainted with some of her moves, maybe also get some information about Dina-as-a-phenomenon from the teacher...like: oh everybody talks about that dancer I want to know-thing. not like you immediately pack your suitcase and go to Cairo.

I don't think anyone who did a "Dina-style" workshop will really believe that now he/she can dance like Dina so that Dina would run out of business.

This. Another element is that, yes, people *can* watch Dina on YouTube now, but not every dancer uses the net and also, not every dancer is skilled at looking at a 2D dance and breaking it down into 3D movement. If you *are*, you can help other dancers get a taste of this stuff instead of keeping belly dance nebulous. It *is* quite nebulous, but increasingly people want packages they can buy. They want to buy a bit of Dancer X or Style Y in a combo or a choreography.

You also get "Dina-styled" movements in other people's choreos, which are usually identified as "Dina does this one", and these may be by people who have studied with Dina or worked alongside her in Cairo. But they will have changed a little. *I* can't do certain Dina movements exactly like Dina because I'm not Dina. I don't need to do them. But some of them are "hip and cool" and I like them and would like to add them to my repertoire. There's nothing wrong with that.

I really think a lot of US/European people have no idea just how *far away* one on one teaching from these people is for us. I'll travel nearly 9000 miles to Toronto. It's about 10,200 miles to Cairo. It's a WEE WAY. Some of these dancers *are* starting to come to Australia but you're still looking at $400 or so in flights alone unless you score one of the really good deals.

For these reasons I have no objection whatsoever to someone offering a workshop in "Dina style" as a taster.

Originally Posted by Nouria

I was wondering would Dina go to Israel to teach workshops?

I'm not sure why this is relevant. What if she would travel somewhere, but she can't find anyone who can afford to sponsor her there? Does that make it okay for some second-rate imitator to undermine her potential market for a future workshop by taking advantage that situation?

Intermediate and advanced students can take a "Dina-Workshop" to get acquainted with some of her moves, maybe also get some information about Dina-as-a-phenomenon from the teacher...like: oh everybody talks about that dancer I want to know-thing. not like you immediately pack your suitcase and go to Cairo.

A student shouldn't have to go to a workshop to find out who Dina is and how she dances. She is the most famous Egyptian dancer in the world now, and has been for some years. If you're studying Egyptian style and her name has never come up in your regular class, there's something fishy about your teacher.

I don't think anyone who did a "Dina-style" workshop will really believe that now he/she can dance like Dina so that Dina would run out of business.

The issue isn't whether you'd put Dina out of business, but whether it is ethical to piggyback off her talent and reputation while she's still actively making a career off it. It's one thing to borrow a move or two, but to make a business out of copying someone else's style just isn't right--especially when it's without their explicit permission and when it's debatable that you're even competent at it. At some point, you have to ask why these teachers decided it was more profitable to be someone other than themselves as dancers.

Originally Posted by zumarrad

Another element is that, yes, people *can* watch Dina on YouTube now, but not every dancer uses the net and also, not every dancer is skilled at looking at a 2D dance and breaking it down into 3D movement. If you *are*, you can help other dancers get a taste of this stuff instead of keeping belly dance nebulous.

Thinking you've figured out how another dancer dances doesn't necessarily mean you actually have. From the look of those video clips, Tatia is misleading students with her workshops. Alexei Ryaboshapka does a more accurate Dina style than she does. Personally, I've heard three different senior dancers explain how Dina does those little jerks in her big hip circles, and each one described a different technique. Only Dina knows how Dina dances, and it's quite possible she doesn't even have all of her own moves broken down to the level that foreign dance students like.