Thread: Handpicking group members for a show

Years ago, a Bhuzzer (Lila Varese, I think) mentioned having a performance group that's organized to be a fun student group, then handpicking some dancers for certain pro-level gigs.

I love this idea, as we really don't have enough pro gigs around here to keep a pro-level troupe busy full time, but there are times I want a more polished performance than a no-cut student group can give. My troupe has not required auditions, and for haflas and student shows I like that it's inclusive.

But I'm running into trouble with the handpicking idea. I've been approaching dancers by e-mail, outside of class, and not mentioning the gigs much in class or in troupe rehearsal. It's not a 'secret' -- I've told the group that it was going to happen on occasion and in theory everyone is fine with it -- but we do it quietly so no one feels excluded.

But what if I want to publicize some of these gigs, on the website or on Facebook, etc? It's going to be obvious over time that the same dancers are being chosen/not chosen. If people want to discuss that, I have no problem with it, it's a reflection of those dancers' hard work as much as innate talent.

But I don't think anyone will want to discuss it. I'm afraid they'll just quietly feel disheartened, and that's not what I want.

Should I broach the subject myself? And how? How often?

I'd love it to be the kind of group where those not chosen would happily go cheer for the rest of the group at their performances, but I'm afraid that's not realistic.

Hmmm, maybe you could go by a dancer's resume, sort of like a job interview? The one with the most experience, the most years, the most teaching jobs, the most classes and workshops attended, gets the position so to speak. I know the way you will word it will probably be very soothing, as you have demonstrated extreme finesse on Bhuz but I guarantee a few people will have hurt feelings. It's impossible not to when you organize something like this. But OTOH, I think a lot of other people/dancers will appreciate seeing this type of show as well. Good luck.

How about announcing it to everyone and allowing them to "try-out" for the gig? This may not always work... especially if there's not a lot of noctice but it might help people feel like they have at least a shot at it. You may find that some folks do not want the opportunity while others may suprise you. :) You could even add the try-out and the resume idea together.

It seems to me that the way the rest of the world gets around this is to provide some sort of regular status report (employee evaluations, grades in school, and so on). If you know you got a C on your art project, you're not as likely to be disappointed when the teacher doesn't pick your piece for the school gallery. Similarly, if your boss told you he felt you weren't working to your potential, would you still expect to be a serous contender for a promotion? On the positive side, getting feedback tells you what your strengths and weaknesses are. It gives you an idea of how far away you are from where you want to be, and what you need to work on to be more competitive.

Would you consider offering your students a chance to opt into a grading system or some other sort of semi-regular, private performance review? That way, if they wanted to be a part of your pro troupe, they would know where they stood in the pack and where they needed to improve to move up. From what you've written, it sounds like the process of choosing who's in and who's out is being done in the background, and this could offer a window into your decision making that might feel considerably less secretive and arbitrary to the ones on the outside looking in.

Thanks, ladies. I did try auditioning recently. One dancer was so overcome by nerves that she couldn't complete her audition. Everyone was very stressed out and we spent a lot of valuable troupe time on something that ultimately was a farce -- I knew who would be performing before we started the process, I've been watching them all do the choreo for months.

Resume is misleading. For instance, the newest member of my group is also the most hardworking, dependable and one of the most likely to execute a choreo well.

I'm committed to handpicking. I just want to handle the whole thing as gently as possible while still being honest.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

It seems to me that the way the rest of the world gets around this is to provide some sort of regular status report (employee evaluations, grades in school, and so on). If you know you got a C on your art project, you're not as likely to be disappointed when the teacher doesn't pick your piece for the school gallery. Similarly, if your boss told you he felt you weren't working to your potential, would you still expect to be a serous contender for a promotion? On the positive side, getting feedback tells you what your strengths and weaknesses are. It gives you an idea of how far away you are from where you want to be, and what you need to work on to be more competitive.

Would you consider offering your students a chance to opt into a grading system or some other sort of semi-regular, private performance review?

Interesting. As I'm reading this, I'm realizing that the dancers who are NOT getting the pro opportunities wouldn't WANT that kind of feedback, as theyr'e just here to have fun. While the dancers who ARE getting those opportunities are the ones who would beg for that kind of feedback.

Ultimately my 'problem' is that a couple of my students are not really interested in working at a pro level, and they know it and would be the first to tell you that this is just fun for them. But they're also going to feel hurt and left behind when the others are invited to work at that level. That's really not MY problem at all, it's a problem for THEM and maybe I need to trust them to be mature enough to resolve it on their own.

All I can do is be as honest and transparent as possible.

To that end, when I'm announcing to my students 'hey, come see Lauren and members of Hips Afire! at _______________' how do I address the members who won't be appearing, or do I need to address them at all?

From a student's perspective, I would much rather my teacher be upfront about the process. You already know who you want, you shouldn't have to owe explanations but if you are feeling iffy about it, you could pull the other students to the side and explain that while they aren't currently up to par, that doesn't mean they won't be considered in the future. If they ask for specifics, then individually you could tell them what you want them to work on technique wise.

I just wanted to say that I understand how you feel completely. I have a couple of troupe members who I feel are now at the level to perform with me at a multi-dancer paid gig. But I'm starting to worry about the day when the opportunity does come up, because I don't want the other troupe members to feel left out or resentful.

I will be watching this thread with great interest.

Tourbeau has me thinking...


I don't want to do a whole separate pro troupe, with separeate rehearsals and such.

But maybe I could offer a 'pro track' within the student troupe. Dancers who are interested in being considered for pro gigs could opt in, and receive annual evaluations and be considered for the gigs...

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Ultimately my 'problem' is that a couple of my students are not really interested in working at a pro level, and they know it and would be the first to tell you that this is just fun for them. But they're also going to feel hurt and left behind when the others are invited to work at that level.

Lauren, if this is the only issue, I would have a class meeting and tell the girls that you are hand picking students who you feel are ready and WANT to be involved in a pro level troupe and if "you" (whoever) are not picked, please see me after class, email me or call and we can discuss the matter in private. Offer to let them assist you at the event, so they still feel involved with the troupe.
That way, it addresses everyone, letting them know what is about to happen and gives them a chance to state their case to you when they aren't picked. You put the ball in their court.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

But maybe I could offer a 'pro track' within the student troupe. Dancers who are interested in being considered for pro gigs could opt in, and receive annual evaluations and be considered for the gigs...

I like that idea...

Originally Posted by Michelle75

Lauren, if this is the only issue, I would have a class meeting and tell the girls that you are hand picking students who you feel are ready and WANT to be involved in a pro level troupe and if "you" (whoever) are not picked, please see me after class, email me or call and we can discuss the matter in private. Offer to let them assist you at the event, so they still feel involved with the troupe.
That way, it addresses everyone, letting them know what is about to happen and gives them a chance to state their case to you when they aren't picked. You put the ball in their court.

Already did that! But it's been nearly a year ago and it would be wise to do it again as the performing season picks up. Thank you.

Maybe you should address the group like this: "X, Y, Z, and I have been doing some higher-level gigs lately, and I would like to formalize what we're doing as a professional troupe. As of now, I'm going to keep the line-up we've been using, but if you would like to be a part of this, I will be happy to meet with you individually and discuss my decision-making process, reevaluate your potential participation, and talk about any other concerns you have. I'm still going to keep our regular troupe--this is a separate project--so you don't have to worry that this will somehow take away all the performance opportunities from everyone else. I want everybody to understand that the lineup of the new troupe is not set in stone. I'm only looking for a handful of really dedicate, serious students who want the additional challenge of working at this level, but if someone who's on the current roster isn't able to keep up with the standards I want, I won't hesitate to cut them. I also won't hesitate to add someone else to the group if I see good potential there, so nobody needs to panic if they're not at that level yet. I want to be as flexible and fair about this as possible..."

Hi Lauren,
Because this sort of opportunity is sporadic for me as well and I'm not interested in setting up a permanent second troupe, I handle it on a project basis. I send an e-mail to the entire troupe with the date, the number of dancers needed and the prospective rehearsal schedule - which is pretty rigorous. Most folks will self-select here if they don't want to put in the time. If I still have more dancers than I need who are willing and available, then I tell them what day (after class) they will need to audition privately for me - dancing solo to a couple of the choreos that we will perform for that gig. I select those who are best prepared. When the next pro gig comes up, I repeat the process. For me this is a fair way to go about it.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Thanks, ladies. I did try auditioning recently. One dancer was so overcome by nerves that she couldn't complete her audition. Everyone was very stressed out and we spent a lot of valuable troupe time on something that ultimately was a farce -- I knew who would be performing before we started the process, I've been watching them all do the choreo for months.

I would think that part of what should be taught to students with professional aspirations is professional conduct - and part of that would entail learning how to cope with auditioning.

Sure, it's stressful the first time you do it, and yes, I remember how nervous I got when auditioning for a role in a Scottish Highland dance show many years ago. Yes, I messed up that audition, and yes, I was disappointed when I didn't make the cut. But, at the same time, I'm glad I had that experience, because it was a useful learning experience for me.

I think that one way in which we, as belly dance teachers, often fail our students is that we fail to teach basic theater skills. There's a discussion underway on tribe.net in which a dancer organized a dress rehearsal for a big theatrical show she was sponsoring, which included dancers who had not worked with her before, and people showed up for this dress rehearsal without their costumes or makeup. In that same discussion, it was pointed out that in the theater world, EVERYBODY who appears in a show helps build the set and strike the set, while in belly dance people often leave as soon as the show is over (sometimes even right after they have danced, BEFORE the show is over) and don't bother helping set up or tear down.

I see auditioning as being another of those skills that theater people take for granted, but belly dancers are rather incompetent at coping with. And why? Because belly dance teachers don't provide the audition experience as part of the learning process.

I do agree with your comment that it would be a farce to hold auditions if you'd already made up your mind ahead of time who would be performing. Auditions are pointless if they're not going to change the outcome.

Yes. And I agree 100% with your position on auditioning, but the students we're worrying about don't have professional aspirations and don't need to be put through all that.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Tourbeau has me thinking...


I don't want to do a whole separate pro troupe, with separeate rehearsals and such.

But maybe I could offer a 'pro track' within the student troupe. Dancers who are interested in being considered for pro gigs could opt in, and receive annual evaluations and be considered for the gigs...

I think this is the best bet. I have a similar issue in my troupe. There are dancers who are very talented and then those who aren't quite at the pro-gig level. So I have to Troupe that everyone can join, and then I have a more advanced level within the troupe that is by invitation only. I don't have seperate practices--I feel those who are advanced can benefit from regular practice and those who are not yet advanced should have plenty of practice and awareness of what they have to do to get to that level.

I would suggest creating a write up of what eactly you are looking for in order to be placed in the pro-gig category: what moves they must execute, stage presence, punctuality, costume requirements, general belly dance knowledge, etc. This list should be very public so that all of your dancers can know exactly what you are looking for; I would also mention that it is still up to you--that you have the final sal on when you feel they have mastered the neccessary requirements to your satisfaction. Then I would invite those dancers who you feel are advanced enough to join if they wish.

It is important, I think, to be very up front and open, but that can be accomplished without crushing opeople :) There is a fine line between sisterhood and competition or jealousy or discontent. I think the best way to stay on a more sisterly level is complete openess painted in kindness.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I don't want to do a whole separate pro troupe, with separeate rehearsals and such.

But maybe I could offer a 'pro track' within the student troupe. Dancers who are interested in being considered for pro gigs could opt in, and receive annual evaluations and be considered for the gigs...

I did something similar for my intermediate class that began in January this year. It was a regular intermediate class in which I taught a choreo as a learning method. The class is through the City's Parks and Rec, so I had my usual spiel in the class brochure, plus indicated that there was a performance opportunity -- not requirement -- and provided details about that opportunity on my website, which was listed in the brochure as part of the class description.

ETA: the performance opp is a 3-minute choreo at my festival; no "pro" aspirations for these girls just yet!

Three of the five students opted in, so we've been taking an extra 30-40 minutes immediately following the class to rehearse the choreo into performance shape. (I would have made the rehearsal time longer, but that wasn't possible at this location.)

Would something like this work for you? Work the choreos in class, as you have, then tack on some additional time so that those prepping for a pro-level show have a bit more time for polishing. I know you already teach a mind-numbing number of classes every week, so I completely understand that you don't want to do still more class time!

Good luck!

Deborah

Deborah, my student repertory group is already meeting for an extra hour of rehearsals every week in addition to class, just to keep up with the student-level performance opportunities. (during slow seasons that hour devolves into social time, but everyone loves it).

There will be extra rehearsals for any events that happen, but I can't just make it an opt-in. They don't self-sort quite well enough for that.

I'm liking the idea of a formalized 'pro track' within the group rather than just having another talk with them all, because this will continue to be an issue forever, I think, and new members will be qualifying for the student troupe all the time. I need some set policies in writing. Hmmmm....

This will also appease some members of the student group who want to see it as a more professional group and sometime find the inclusivity not to their liking.

I'm LOVING this idea, actually!

It is a great idea. I have to admit when I was reading your post my first thought was along those lines. Something where those who want to work toward pro work could let you know and even if they aren't ready now they could get the feedback they would need to learn what they have to do and work on to get there; those who don't want to go pro then just wouldn't bother and won't feel "left out".

Here's what I've drafted up so far.

******************
Hips Afire! Student Repertory Group

• Inclusive no-cut student performance group
• Haflas, studio parties, student shows, and other student-appropriate venues
• Prerequisite: at least 6 months in Level 4 class, knows three or more choreographies in the current rotation, in interested in making the commitment outlined below.
• Requires from the student:
  1. Commitment to rehearsals in addition to Level 4 class
  2. Commitment to rehearse outside of class
  3. Purchasing certain items that are required elements of the group costume
  4. Regular attendance at rehearsals, including 5 weeks out of the 6 leading up to each performance. Final rehearsal before any performance is mandatory.

Pro Track

• Members of Hips Afire! who feel they are ready to perform at pro-level gigs (paid or not) in front of the general public may apply.
• All Pro Track members must be approved by the Director.
• Individual performances may only require a few dancers. Dancers who have been approved for the Pro Track will be invited by the Director for each performance.
• Requires from the dancer:
  1. Excellent knowledge of a body of Hips Afire! choreographies
  2. Clean, well-executed dance technique
  3. Proven record of dependability, flexibility and a team-player mentality
  4. An interest in Middle Eastern dance outside of classtime. eg attending workshops and shows even when not offered a performance opportunity, reading about the dance, watching videos, etc.
  5. Demonstrated ability to bring a professional appearance to performances.
• Some performances will offer compensation, others will not. Troupe compensation is often very small. Pro Track dancers will have the opportunity to accept or reject each individual gig offer.

*****************

I'm not liking the use of the word 'pro' here though.. what else could I call it?

I could use principal dancers and company.. but that really means something else (soloists vs. chorus) if I understand it correctly.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Here's what I've drafted up so far.

******************
Hips Afire! Student Repertory Group

• Inclusive no-cut student performance group
• Haflas, studio parties, student shows, and other student-appropriate venues
• Prerequisite: at least 6 months in Level 4 class, knows three or more choreographies in the current rotation, in interested in making the commitment outlined below.
• Requires from the student:
  1. Commitment to rehearsals in addition to Level 4 class
  2. Commitment to rehearse outside of class
  3. Purchasing certain items that are required elements of the group costume
  4. Regular attendance at rehearsals, including 5 weeks out of the 6 leading up to each performance. Final rehearsal before any performance is mandatory.

Pro Track

• Members of Hips Afire! who feel they are ready to perform at pro-level gigs (paid or not) in front of the general public may apply.
• All Pro Track members must be approved by the Director.
• Individual performances may only require a few dancers. Dancers who have been approved for the Pro Track will be invited by the Director for each performance.
• Requires from the dancer:
  1. Excellent knowledge of a body of Hips Afire! choreographies
  2. Clean, well-executed dance technique
  3. Proven record of dependability, flexibility and a team-player mentality
  4. An interest in Middle Eastern dance outside of classtime. eg attending workshops and shows even when not offered a performance opportunity, reading about the dance, watching videos, etc.
  5. Demonstrated ability to bring a professional appearance to performances.
• Some performances will offer compensation, others will not. Troupe compensation is often very small. Pro Track dancers will have the opportunity to accept or reject each individual gig offer.

*****************

I'm not liking the use of the word 'pro' here though.. what else could I call it?

I could use principal dancers and company.. but that really means something else (soloists vs. chorus) if I understand it correctly.

Yes! Something like this, lol, I didn't read all the way throguh the posts. This is a good idea, and yes the word 'pro' might make some people feel a little less important...

Maybe something as simple as Hips Aflame! or Hips Ablaze!

Instead of "Pro Track" how about "Dance Company Track"?

The tribal group that I study with does do some gigs at restaurants. It's such a small group and when the teacher was putting the group together, I figured I would be included. I wasn't. Yes, it hurt and it still sometimes hurts. But I do have the ability to look outside myself and say "Kathy, do you really think you deserved to be in that group?". When I think rationally, I come up with the answer of "no". I still study with these people and enjoy class. But, for me, I enjoy the classes and the occasional performance. Perhaps if I wanted it more and worked harder, I would have been chosen.

I don't think you can completely eliminate hard feelings when picking people for a group. That you are thinking very hard on this speaks well on how good a human being you are.

You are *always* going to offend someone; hopefully at this stage there are no such people in your group, but you may find down the track that there are dancers who want to be in these performances and believe they are up to the task, but are not - and these are the people you must handle very tactfully, while accepting that they might just hate you for a while no matter how hard you try.

My teacher had a few different things she tried. She did not have a senior level oriental troupe, though, which made it slightly easier in a way. Eventually it went like this:

First of all, all changes of class level required a personal assessment. Those were great, though they can freak people out a bit. However, if you are going to try to dance at the highest level you need to accept that you will be critiqued. And these were very very gentle critiques. There were set criteria being sought, and those were related to facility with certain movements, level of natural rhythm, flexibility and strength to cope with the work etc. At our highest class level this was NOT all that high. But it was above the abilities of many students at that time. Having the assessment criteria clearly available to dancers who wanted to try it out made it clearly not personal, not about weight or age etc.

Then, there were additional things you tended to see in these dancers. We were encouraged to work towards dances of our *own*. Our school had regular performance evenings and other students of the school would see these dancers creating their own short solos etc. They would see that the dancers were doing a lot of work on their own and were developing higher level confidence and skills. So in most cases, I think they came to understand that the dancers in the higher level were perhaps becoming deserving of the "special spot". But at the same time, they always had a class choreography they could be performing too. So they were reassured that they also mattered, even if they were less able.

She also had a troupe in a particular dance style that *was* invitation only. But it was not seen as the Gold Standard Pinnacle Of Bellydance, it was sort of like a side project.

This sort of system works well in a school with a single strong and compassionate person at the top.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Deborah, my student repertory group is already meeting for an extra hour of rehearsals every week in addition to class, just to keep up with the student-level performance opportunities. (during slow seasons that hour devolves into social time, but everyone loves it).

There will be extra rehearsals for any events that happen, but I can't just make it an opt-in. They don't self-sort quite well enough for that.

I'm liking the idea of a formalized 'pro track' within the group rather than just having another talk with them all, because this will continue to be an issue forever, I think, and new members will be qualifying for the student troupe all the time. I need some set policies in writing. Hmmmm....

This will also appease some members of the student group who want to see it as a more professional group and sometime find the inclusivity not to their liking.

I'm LOVING this idea, actually!

Gotcha re: extra rehearsal time already exists. Double gotcha on the self-sorting phenomenon.

I think your draft looks great -- as always! I also like Shira's suggestion for calling it the "Dance Company Track" or something similar.

Let's hear more!

Deborah

I like the concept of a separate track and the policies you're drafting up so far to go with it. I agree that making the selection criteria as clear as possible and confirming a willingness to consider for the group anyone who's prepared to work up to that level is the best way to try to stave off hurt feelings.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I'm not liking the use of the word 'pro' here though.. what else could I call it?

I could use principal dancers and company.. but that really means something else (soloists vs. chorus) if I understand it correctly.

I see your problem here... "pro" implies "better", whereas "principal dancers" or "dance company track" are more value-neutral. I might actually be inclined to choose a term that puts the emphasis on the extra work involved, rather than on the additional performance opportunities. To put a slightly negative slant on it, in a way, so that students realize that performing more frequently comes at a cost they may not be interested in paying.

I haven't thought the idea through fully, but something like "extra commitment group" -- some name that suggests additional effort and responsibility.

Why don't you like "pro"? I think it alludes to a certain standard of skill and behaviour that the dancers interested in the program probably aspire to. "Pro-track" is exactly what you're doing...no? Putting them on the path towards professional level dancing opportunities.

I see your problem here... "pro" implies "better", whereas "principal dancers" or "dance company track" are more value-neutral.

Gosh, for me it's the other way round - pro merely means you get paid, whereas principal dancer or dance company has an implication that you're *good*.

I don't like 'pro' because it might imply that I'm preparing them (or stamping them with approval) for restaurant/club/private party work, or to become a professional dancer.

That's not really my focus at all.