Thread: One of Those students

So, last week I did my big show with troupe, read post in the rest section. However one of the actors involved in the show was a middle eastern lady, an aquitence of my teacher. all throughout our practices and performances she was standing just off stage where we could see her dancing and imitating all of our dances. Now I can understand that, since when your just standing there where no one can see you and the musics going you can't help but dance.

However it was revealed by another troupe member that this lady wanted to join troupe. Now we've had some problems in troupe before, some bad blood within the group, which can happen in any group. but those people have left now and our troupe is certainly better for it, we get along, we enjoy each others company, we work well together, and this is the first year of doing our show where we weren't all stressed out and biting each others heads off.

So you can imagine everyones pretty apprehensive about bringing in someone new. But still, our teacher has her head on straight and doesn't let anyone in who hasn't taken at least one semester of intemediate with her and been interviewed to see if she'll be a good fit in the group. So this lady has to go through some classes for at least another year before she joins, shes currently an intermediate beg.

Here's my problem, this lady is of middle eastern decent and is one of those students who raves about how belly dance is natural to her because she's middle eastern, she understands the music, the moves and the lyics. Probably true, i'm no fool and know if your surrounded by something all your life you'll probably have a natural grasp for it.

Still this kind of attitude really grates on my nerves and I could see it being a problem in the future if she joins troupe. mind you I barely know the woman, and what really matters to a great extent is how well she dances and her dedication to the troupe. But still being able to get along with a person that you see at least once a week or more is also important.

I know this subjects been brought up before and many here have experience with these kinds of students so I'm looking for some advice. I don't want to discredit this woman or her chances in troupe, if she joins it will be because my teacher, whom i admire and respect believes she belongs there and I respect her descions. And if shes a good dancer, and a good person she does belong there. Still I know I, and a few others, would find her attitude sometimes annoying.

Any advice with how to deal with this one grated personality problem? any personal experience with this?

thanks

Veighouda

You should have troupe contracts so that members know what they are responsible for and what commitment is expected of them. Also have a trial period. Not everyone in the world gets along so trial periods are great to see if chemistry is there.

Being of Middle Eastern origin does give a dancer a terrifc head start. Understanding lyrics, hearing familiar rythmns etc but from personal observation this does not mean she is will automatically be a good performer.
She needs to understand that first and foremost and it sounds like she needs to learn tact and patience

LOL, I'm having this weird reverse-discrimination image, where none of us wants to let any actual ME people into our ME dance troupes...

Seriously, sounds like your teacher has things well in hand. If this student truly suffers from 'i don't have to try or work cuz it's in my blood' attitude, she'll storm out before a year of classes.

Hmmm, why start passing judgement before giving yourself a chance to get to know her? Also, I have lots of co-workers that do things that get on my nerves and I have to see them more than once a week and for more than just a few hours. You just have to learn how to deal with it. If I have a co-worker that chews their gum with their mouth open at the speed of a typewriter then I distance myself away so it is less annoying or I tune it out by focusing on something else. I have to work with these people, just like a troupe has to work with its members. It would be to much a waste of time and energy for me to focus on this co-workers annoying personality trait when I can simply choose to ignore it.

I'd wait and see. As you say, you don't know her. And you don't know if she just bragged about her ability to "sell" herself to your teacher - or if she does it all the time.

I think a few months from here you will be in a better position to see if she dances well and if she can get along with others.

And I don't even think it's an issue of being Middle Eastern. I guess if ANYBODY came up and told you "I am SUCH a fantastic dancer, I should be in your troupe!" you would have reacted the same way, right?

MEISSOUN

And I don't even think it's an issue of being Middle Eastern. I guess if ANYBODY came up and told you "I am SUCH a fantastic dancer, I should be in your troupe!" you would have reacted the same way, right?

Agreed...an arrogant and superior approach from any quarter is ill judged and why should a reaction to such behaviour ever be thought of as racist.

I will always give way to the idea that we in the West will never quite match the Randas of this world but with dedication , a non ME -er can become an excellent performer and entertainer whereas noone should assume that because they have the correct look/origin they are automatically worthy of joining a competant group of performers without proving themselves.

I haven't had many classes where one or two students (no matter the nationality or cultural background) haven't appeared to be "trying a little too hard" to be stars. They're everywhere and they're annoying no matter what.

We can either be put off so much that we don't go back to the class, or accept that they've got their issues and that shouldn't keep us from a good teacher or experience.

It takes patience and understanding to deal with the "there's no one in the world but me" diva students who take over the room, and honestly, I know I'm not always interested in dealing with it.

Do teachers see this going on in their classes or are they rather oblivious to the intra-student dynamics? I'd imagine it'd be more obvious in a troupe setting.

What say you teachers?

Originally Posted by danidance

Do teachers see this going on in their classes or are they rather oblivious to the intra-student dynamics? I'd imagine it'd be more obvious in a troupe setting.

What say you teachers?

That's another whole thread ,r:; -- if you start it, I will come.

Because it's a hobby, it really is sad that you have to deal with unpleasant people, and you shouldn't, because it's a hobby and not your financial livelihood.

Will your teacher allow some feedback from the troupe when it comes to new members? I would address the issue of arrogance with her when the time happens.

I think eventually most people come to a point where they either are humbled and stay or quit. The basics for some people are quite easy; it's the layering that mostly gets people, for instance.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

LOL, I'm having this weird reverse-discrimination image, where none of us wants to let any actual ME people into our ME dance troupes...

Seriously, sounds like your teacher has things well in hand. If this student truly suffers from 'i don't have to try or work cuz it's in my blood' attitude, she'll storm out before a year of classes.

ROTFLMAO!!..l;,

Jade

Originally Posted by danidance

Do teachers see this going on in their classes or are they rather oblivious to the intra-student dynamics? I'd imagine it'd be more obvious in a troupe setting.

What say you teachers?

Additionally, if they do see, do they feel obligated to do something about it?

I think it 's a great honor to have someone of actual middle eastern descent in the group. I think you should welcome this. You probably can learn alot from her. Of course she's at an advantage. It's a great opportunity for cross cultural learning and I think it's wonderful. There aren't too many troops with women from these lands, I think that's because of the disrespect that goes on. Lets be real, this dance comes from her homeland. She will automatically have a different connection to it. Welcome that.

Originally Posted by veighouda

Here's my problem, this lady is of middle eastern decent and is one of those students who raves about how belly dance is natural to her because she's middle eastern, she understands the music, the moves and the lyics. Probably true, i'm no fool and know if your surrounded by something all your life you'll probably have a natural grasp for it.


Veighouda

PUHLEEEEEEZZZZEEEEEEEEEEEEE

I am now going outside of my home to scream so I don't scare my dog......
I CANNOT simply CANNOT abide that attitude.
this has been brought up on bhuz many many times.

Originally Posted by rakgirl

I think it 's a great honor to have someone of actual middle eastern descent in the group. I think you should welcome this. You probably can learn alot from her. Of course she's at an advantage. It's a great opportunity for cross cultural learning and I think it's wonderful. There aren't too many troops with women from these lands, I think that's because of the disrespect that goes on. Lets be real, this dance comes from her homeland. She will automatically have a different connection to it. Welcome that.

I have many persian ladies and an Iraqi lady in my classes....they are simply not up to par quite yet to be in a professional troupe,
WHAT difference does it make what descent you are, it shouldn't make one iota of a difference.

Just because you are born wherever and whatever, doesn't make you an expert......sorry.....
I'm Italian, and I am not an expert on cooking, pasta, opera, art, or whatever.........

Originally Posted by danidance

It takes patience and understanding to deal with the "there's no one in the world but me" diva students who take over the room, and honestly, I know I'm not always interested in dealing with it.

Do teachers see this going on in their classes or are they rather oblivious to the intra-student dynamics? I'd imagine it'd be more obvious in a troupe setting.

What say you teachers?

Originally Posted by Lauren_

That's another whole thread ,r:; -- if you start it, I will come.

Me, too! I've been thinking about starting a thread called 'Dealing with Divas'. I'd be really interested in hearing other people's coping strategies.

Ainsley, you could post in the private teachers group.

But I hope such a discussion is public--I'm very curious to hear how teachers and troupe leaders deal with difficult group dynamics, or if they do at all.

In the past the groups I have been a part of are
A-by director invitation only or
B-by a simple audition including a brief trial period in rehersals/events.

The last process ensures that no one person has the ultimate say in who is chosen to be invited.
Often times a director will look for many other qualities...beyond dance skills. Do they play well with others? Do they retain choreography? Do they have a "feel" for many types of music and situations? Are they well educated about the Middle:East? Do they have a good stage persona?...etc...
Most situations will work themselves out, Good luck. Shah

Originally Posted by Taj

Ainsley, you could post in the private teachers group.

That's what I had wanted to do. I've tried to join, but I only teach with a student club, not professionally, so I haven't heard back. It could just be that the moderator hasn't been online lately.

Originally Posted by *maria*

I have many persian ladies and an Iraqi lady in my classes....they are simply not up to par quite yet to be in a professional troupe,
WHAT difference does it make what descent you are, it shouldn't make one iota of a difference.

Just because you are born wherever and whatever, doesn't make you an expert......sorry.....
I'm Italian, and I am not an expert on cooking, pasta, opera, art, or whatever.........

Understanding the music probably will be easier, since a lot of us dance to Arabic pop and knowing the language will help her understand the emotions. It doesn't maker he an expert by any means, but she probably has an initial (slight) upperhand in starting. Growing up with certain influences can be helpful, like people who grow up with scientist parents find whatever genre of science easier than someone who grew up with parents who were English/artsy types. They still have to work at it, but some things are just easier.

I otherwise agree with you.

Originally Posted by Ainsley

Me, too! I've been thinking about starting a thread called 'Dealing with Divas'. I'd be really interested in hearing other people's coping strategies.

i had a thread on the old bhuz about just that, and got some good responses...i say start the thread!

A little ancedote on the original subject...
I was visiting my sister. Her boyfriend was Isreali. She let me know that he and his family in LA adored belly dancing and that we should catch a show when in LA.

I was all excited because up until this point my sister had no appreciation for the dance.

So we go to his house and his sister in law is there. We get on the subject of dancing and I tell her I have been studying for many years and urge her to put on some of the Oreintal music she said she had and we could dance a little on the patio.

She is happily considering it and then she looks my square in the nose and says something to the effect that it doesn't matter how long and hard a white girl studies she will never be able to understand the dance and perform it as well as someone from the middle east.

I thought she was saying it in a way to be confrontational. I explained to her that I agreed with some of what she said but that a lot of women in the stats and all over the world learn from woman of the middle east and that factual reenactment was really important to us. She still kept saying that - oh I've seen westerners try it and they are not as good... there is something missing because they are not from the mid east.

When it was my turn to debate ( I was tired and insulted) I said I was currently a paid peformer and the people that want me to dance pay me to do it. Thus revoking my offer to dance with her on her patio.

Then the weirdest thing happened.. she went for her purse! Luckily someone stepped in and changed the subject.

I could see that when she was done being all poisonous that she felt bad for insulting me. I think what happened is that she was just showing a little extra "school spirit" and in her venacular just took it a little too far.

Maybe it would have been better for me to say... Oh yes Sandy that is true. I can only aspire to be as great as someone from the middle east. Now show me how it is done! ..g.:


In America we don't really have that flattery thing going on.

I hope I didn't kill this thread with my long winded post!