Thread: WWBD?

A student paid me cash up front for the last session but then never came to any of the classes. Nor did she ever contact me during the session. She had the option of making up classes on Saturdays but I don't know if she was aware of that because she never contacted me.

After the session was over, she e-mailed me wanting her money back.

I said I couldn't offer her a refund but would hold a credit for her for future classes.

Here's her response:

I did not attend a single class. I do however volunteer my time and (when i have it) money. I uphold some if not all of the principals of vedic and or brahmic teachings. I know karma what goes around comes around... I do not believe in accepting goods for a service that was not rendered. Do u? I will feel better holding on to my little bot of money myself(60 dol). When i decide to embark on another class i will gladly pay at that time. U have a whole business. I am trusting that i can come and collect what is rightfully mine because it is proper. I really hope my 60 which means gas n groceries to me will not cause u to close your doors! Bad karma can! I do think u all r beautiful n talented as well as peaceful an can benefit me n my journey later. My path now is one of stress. Need my money cannot afford to make a donation at this time. Please reconsider and respond.new class outta reach car needs repair thanx anyway

Part of me (the businesswoman) wants to say:

Ma'am, I'm sorry, but I did provide the service.

I was there every week teaching the class, and a space in that class was reserved for you. I was also available on Saturdays offering a class you could have used to make up any missed classes.

I would have been happy to work with you if you had contacted me during the session. But the session is over, it's too late for me to sell your space in that class to someone else.

But another part of me is thinking
1) The session wasn't full, I didn't turn anyone away
2) This woman's understanding of standard business practice may be rather limited
3) She really needs the money (not that I don't, I struggle to buy gas and food too!)
4) She's very high maintenance and I may not want her in future classes.

I think your quoted response is very reasonable. Is your refund policy spelled out somewhere?

If you have a refund policy than stick to it. If not, give it back and send her on her way, stating this is the one and ONLY time you will do such a thing.

i'm a student. when i pay for a session, i assume it is just for those specific dates. if i can't make it, too bad. its my responsibility to show and learn. its your responsibility to be there and teach. keep your money, and don't worry about your karma!

I don't have any real ideas for you right now, but I have to say it struck me as rather funny (in a non-humorous way) that this woman, who "uphold[s] some if not all of the principals of vedic and or brahmic teachings," would write this: "my [$]60 which means gas n groceries to me will not cause u to close your doors! Bad karma can!" and "I know karma what goes around comes around... "

Are you being threatened with karma???

Deborah

I don't like how she's trying to intimidate you through mentioning karma and how it's going to to come back and get you.

She paid for a session upfront and didn't attend. When I miss classes when I've paid upfront, it sucks but that's my fault, not my teacher's. I think you gave a very generous offer; not all teachers would allow her to apply that tuition to another session.

I like your email. It gets the message across; you held up your end of the deal, she did not. She doesn't need to know your class wasn't entirely filled. Without really knowing this person, it sounds like she's just trying to guilt and intimidate you to get the money back; I question if she actually needs the money because of the tone.

If you have a no-returns policy, point her to it politely and firmly. If you do not have one, I'd refund the money for peace of mind and instantiate one.

I am bothered that this gal did not even take the time to thoughtfully compose her message in proper English. To me that shows a deep lack of respect. The whole somewhat rambling attempt an argument about karma does not work for me, either. I can understand that she may be frustrated, but anybody who has ever taken a class anywhere knows that there are policies on attendance and refunds that often work not the way one would like it.

Originally Posted by steffib

If you have a no-returns policy, point her to it politely and firmly. If you do not have one, I'd refund the money for peace of mind and instantiate one.

I agree.

If you have a policy of not offering refunds after the first week or two of classes, it's well within reason. I can tell you that the gym where I teach has a policy of no refunds after the first couple of weeks of classes, and yet nearly every session I have a registered student or two who has paid in full but never attends.

While I really dislike her argument that she needs the money for groceries and gas (does she think you're rolling in the dough as a self-employed dance teacher?), if you don't have a refund policy in place it might be more valuable for you to give her back her money just to avoid the nuisance. From a business perspective, it's very generous to offer to put her money toward a future session, but, on the other hand, would you really want a person this disgruntled in your class? That might lose you business in the long term if other students are turned off by her attitude.

i would go with the

"you reserved a place in class, that was there for you every week. a place i could not sell to someone else. if you were unable to attend class, you should have contacted me in the beginning of the session. however, as a courtesy to you, i'm offering for you to use this as a credit towards future classes".

(on my class terms and conditions it actually says that they can only get (part of) their money back FROM the moment they let me know.

on the other hand, sometimes i just give these kind of people their money back AND never let them enroll again either. energy suckers...

Originally Posted by indigostars

I don't like how she's trying to intimidate you through mentioning karma and how it's going to to come back and get you.

She paid for a session upfront and didn't attend. When I miss classes when I've paid upfront, it sucks but that's my fault, not my teacher's. I think you gave a very generous offer; not all teachers would allow her to apply that tuition to another session.

I like your email. It gets the message across; you held up your end of the deal, she did not. She doesn't need to know your class wasn't entirely filled. Without really knowing this person, it sounds like she's just trying to guilt and intimidate you to get the money back; I question if she actually needs the money because of the tone.

I completely agree. Besides, she did not communicate with you until after the session/your contract had ended. What if she had paid in advance for a theatre/airplane ticket and couldn't/decided not to go. Do you think she would be refunded after the fact? She may have limited awareness of standard business practices but now you have the opportunity to enlighten her. You are offering her a lesson in Karma and hopefully she will learn to honour her contracts as a result. $60 is a small amount for such an important life lesson!


Khalida

If you have a published no-refund policy, then offering her classes in exchange for her money is reasonable.

Refunding money to courteous students in need is reasonable.

Telling someone who is demanding their money back because 'they' are so broke and 'U have a whole business' that their 'little bot of money' went to pay for your second sports car is tempting but probably not reasonable.

Telling her why you have a no-refund policy (because your overhead for rent and transport and class preparation didn't shrink a bit because she wasn't there) and then seeing what she says in return might work. The fact is, she DID get what she paid for - space in your class.

My 2 cents. She sounds a little like the kind of person who goes through life assuming that none of the rules apply to her. She's also good at wordsmithing -- e.g. referring to her *payment* as "donation". I would wager she's done this before. And will do it again. To someone else, probably. But in her mind, all her past success will only serve to rationalize for her that she's in the right.

I think you are being very generous and kind by giving her credit towards a future class.

I think your planned response is perfect. She needs to understand that she purchased the service and it was provided whether she came to the classes or not.

I'm of the mind your buisness woman's instinct and response is dead on. Sounds like "buyers remorse" to me. She spent the money decided for whatever reason not to show up, then after the fact came looking for her money back. You held up your end of the deal 100%, not your fault she didn't decide to actually use what she spent her money on.

Here's an option: Give her back the money and tell her you've now decided to return it because you actually would not want her to sign up for any of your future classes after all. Tell her this is because she has been so rude, you feel she is a person you would rather not have to deal with any more, ever.

Rosette

Originally Posted by Lauren_

But another part of me is thinking
1) The session wasn't full, I didn't turn anyone away
2) This woman's understanding of standard business practice may be rather limited
3) She really needs the money (not that I don't, I struggle to buy gas and food too!)
4) She's very high maintenance and I may not want her in future classes.

But - yes, you did provide a service. She decided not to take it up. She never even contacted you. Now she is trying some not so subtle karmic blackmail. Forget her - and hope she doesn't take up your offer to do a catch up later.

She seems to have a major sense of entitlement. Obviously you are a savvy business woman, I feel confident you have protected yourself with various policies including one regarding refunds for no-shows. If you do not enforce your policies they are worthless. If she ever pays you for another class what would keep her from repeating such inappropriate behavior? Life lessons are not usually as affordable as the $60 she is harping about - much like a petulant child. Personally I do not reward poor or dumb behavior.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Ma'am, I'm sorry, but I did provide the service.

I was there every week teaching the class, and a space in that class was reserved for you. I was also available on Saturdays offering a class you could have used to make up any missed classes.

I would have been happy to work with you if you had contacted me during the session. But the session is over, it's too late for me to sell your space in that class to someone else.

Would she ask for a refund on her gym membership just because she did not go?

As a student, I agree with the above quote. She paid for a service and then made the decision not to use the service. It was her choice. Even if she couldn't make if for whatever reason, she did not contact you at all. I don't think that you need to make any amends at all.

The karma blackmail is hilarious. Way to try to bully the yoga teacher.

She does not have a leg to stand on. You offered a service, she paid for it and didn't use it, you have offered her the chance to receive the service at a different time. You do not HAVE to give her a refund.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

I did not attend a single class. I do however volunteer my time and (when i have it) money. I uphold some if not all of the principals of vedic and or brahmic teachings. I know karma what goes around comes around... I do not believe in accepting goods for a service that was not rendered. Do u? I will feel better holding on to my little bot of money myself(60 dol). When i decide to embark on another class i will gladly pay at that time. U have a whole business. I am trusting that i can come and collect what is rightfully mine because it is proper. I really hope my 60 which means gas n groceries to me will not cause u to close your doors! Bad karma can! I do think u all r beautiful n talented as well as peaceful an can benefit me n my journey later. My path now is one of stress. Need my money cannot afford to make a donation at this time. Please reconsider and respond.new class outta reach car needs repair thanx anyway

Why should you care whether she volunteers her time and donates money? You had a deal, you held the class, she never bothered to show or call. Maybe the class wasn't full...maybe you offered it because you had *just* enough enrollment to make it profitable? For all she knows, giving the refund would make that class session unprofitable for you. First she wants to "hold onto" her "little bot of money" for now, then she needs it for "gas and groceries". Finally she calls it a "donation" that she can't afford to make. Whatever!

It's totally worth her time to ask for a refund - if I were her friend, I'd say go ahead, ask for what you want. But her response to your counter-offer shows this girl is a flake. If you have a no-refund policy, stick to it. Chances are she would never have made it to a full session of classes anyway, and everyone who knows her eventually figures out how much she likes to badmouth people who have crossed her.

I think you're better off not worrying about this girl's "journey". She is not worried about yours. Why isn't she worried about bad karma biting HER in the a$$?

She should try feeding a teenaged son (that's what you have, right?). Grocery bills would take on a whole new meaning, then!

If she has ever arranged for a rental vehicle, hotel room, catering, etc - she would realize the foolishness of her email. Even if you cancel those reservations there is often a cancellation fee. Too bad - so sad. Blackmail via Karma - now that is indeed thought-provoking. You are fortunate she did not appear for classes, sounds like she could be problematic. (in this case problematic would probably = difficult and time-consuming.)

This chick has a serious case of special snowflake syndrome, and has likely annoyed scores of people before you with her belief that the rules don't apply to her. Like everyone else has already said, yours is by far not the only business that refuses to issue refunds for no-shows. If she's an adult she should realize this by now.

Originally Posted by Rosette

Here's an option: Give her back the money and tell her you've now decided to return it because you actually would not want her to sign up for any of your future classes after all. Tell her this is because she has been so rude, you feel she is a person you would rather not have to deal with any more, ever.

Rosette

I have a school and personally, I do not need that kind of students. I would refund her and never take her registration back to make sure I will not see her again. For me, that would be a good karma.

Please don't refund her the money. The less often this kind of bullying gets results, the less often it will be tried, I sincerely hope. You are in the right and it would be a grand favor to others who may have to deal with this individual in the future to stick to your guns.

I think it was generous of you to offer her a credit. I don't think I would have done that unless she was injured or there was a death in her family or something like that.

As a rule I do not refund after the first night (I have once in exceptional circumstances) - and even then I deduct a class and a half. Like you I do offer a 12 month chance to to do the classes - in this case I'd be hoping she wouldn't show. I can just imagine her flakey, needy, manipulative behaviour in class.

And yes, if you don't have this all in writing it would be a good time to do so.

Karma police... arrest this flake...

There is not a learning institution on the planet that gives a refund after the fact. Maybe a week before, a day before, or even a week or two weeks into, but NOT after the entire session. Period. Why should your valuable instruction be less worthy of that policy than any other institution of learning?

Quite possibly, she is from another planet...

I am e-mailing my insurance company to ask for a refund for the year since I didn't use them.

Seriously, I am a Partial behaviorist and I can say that she does this because it works. People in the past must have given her the money back just to get rid of her. Every time it happens, it reinforces her behavior and the next person in line will get the same. It is time for her to put on her big girl panties and understand that sometimes, life does not work out the way you want. Karma can be like that! Keep your 60 bucks, smile and know that you helped her along her "journey" to being a grown-up.

Originally Posted by mahsati

I think your planned response is perfect. She needs to understand that she purchased the service and it was provided whether she came to the classes or not.

I agree completely! You're being helpful by helping her learn about healthy boundaries. And in a polite fashion!