Thread: minimum knowledge

Originally Posted by jencUK

Most important in my book - how to devise or adapt choreos so that students are challenged by something that they can achieve and will make them look good. Not something difficult tat they have to scramble through, nor the same old thing again

I am torn on the issue of choreography. For beginners, having a place to start and a plan to follow is critical to not being overwhelmed by the task of figuring out how those little bits and pieces they've learned can come together in a sensible way. As students become more proficient, choreography allows them to explore how another dancer interprets music in a tangible way.

OTOH, after a certain level, I think choreography can actually hold a dancer back. If you are working regularly with a master choreographer, and your objective is to "become" their style, then it's fine to focus on doing his or her pre-designed routines, but if you are looking for your own artistic voice, you can only make so much progress with someone else's ideas. (In hindsight, I wish my early teachers had not relied quite so heavily on choreography. I was dancing for years before I was in a position to do even the lowest-expectation improv.) If your dream is to "feel" the music like a native and perform to live music, then choreography, and particularly synchronized group choreography, will not take you very far toward that aim, unless your definition of "native" starts and ends with Reda.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

I am torn on the issue of choreography. For beginners, having a place to start and a plan to follow is critical to not being overwhelmed by the task of figuring out how those little bits and pieces they've learned can come together in a sensible way.

i haven't been teaching long. I stared at my teacher's (who i trust and consider very knowledgeable and has a wonderful awareness of the wider BD world, qualification, qualification) recommendation to pick up a beginner class that she would be unable to teach due to scheduling.
the last 2 sessions i did i broke down a few moves each class, and then asked them to improvise to a song, which i played twice before we stretched and cooled down, because i didn't want them to become my clones or rely on combinations/choreography.
but the thread "is BD like math class" made me think, and i realized that approach has been a little like throwing your kid into the deep end and to teach them to swim (i think that metaphor sunk into my head from the Improv toolkit trailer and is seeping back out now ^_~). since i feel it's like learning a language, i decided to add in sample combinations between breakdown/drill time and improv time this time around. im going to be explaining them as "practice sentences" (and recently updated the class's description on my website to reflect the change in class structure).
anyway, my thought it to use choreography and combinations like the practice sentences you get in a language text book. you learn vocab, and then it's put in context, but no one really thinks going around saying "the library is red" "the monkey is on the branch" is going to help you converse, they expect you to apply it to what you want to express and how you want to react to what's been said to you. in the case of dancing, how you want to react to how you hear the music.
i'll let you know how it goes. either way im gonna get them improvising from day one.

I certainly agree but MOST teachers teach beginners choreography. I really admire those who can fit choreo to skill level - even though i want to do improv myself. A lot of beginners freeze if asked to improv. Good luck

Originally Posted by tahiradancer

One of the greatest challenges we have in Belly Dance is that there are so many different schools of thought and no single resource. Is it appropriate to shimmy to the Kanun? Well, what style are you dancing? Turkish, yes. Egyptian, generally no. But how do you know, right? Where to get the info.

I have been taught directly by several authentic egyptian teachers that it is appropriate to shimmy on the quanoon, because it (generally) fits with the music.
I've never heard that in Egyptian style dancing it is inappropriate!

I was also told that it is best to learn mayas initially with flat feet so that they can be driven by internal muscles when required, but that leg driven mayas (although more commonly used in America) are not 'wrong' per-se.

Coming back to the original question, I think it is almost impossible to quantify the length of experience required to teach as it depend so much on the individual as to how seriously they take the learning/ teaching process.

There are obviously a wide range of essential skills that are necessary before teaching could even be considered. I'm certainly not an advocate of the 6 week wonder teachers, but equally one could be an amazingly skilled, knowledgeable dancer and a rubbish teacher.

Originally Posted by raqFariha

the last 2 sessions i did i broke down a few moves each class, and then asked them to improvise to a song, which i played twice before we stretched and cooled down, because i didn't want them to become my clones or rely on combinations/choreography.
but the thread "is BD like math class" made me think, and i realized that approach has been a little like throwing your kid into the deep end and to teach them to swim (i think that metaphor sunk into my head from the Improv toolkit trailer and is seeping back out now ^_~). since i feel it's like learning a language, i decided to add in sample combinations between breakdown/drill time and improv time this time around. im going to be explaining them as "practice sentences" (and recently updated the class's description on my website to reflect the change in class structure).
anyway, my thought it to use choreography and combinations like the practice sentences you get in a language text book. you learn vocab, and then it's put in context, but no one really thinks going around saying "the library is red" "the monkey is on the branch" is going to help you converse, they expect you to apply it to what you want to express and how you want to react to what's been said to you. in the case of dancing, how you want to react to how you hear the music.
i'll let you know how it goes. either way im gonna get them improvising from day one.

Yes! I teach the technique of 2-3 movements/traveling then put them together in a logical combination sequence. Using the same music from the learning-the-technique section, I ask them to continue using the movements; they can use the movements in the exact order they were learned, or they can mix them up a bit. Most people use them in the exact order they were given, which makes perfect sense early on.

Thus, they are "improv'ing" in the sense that I'm not telling them exactly how many to do or when to do them, but they do have a guide to keep them moving. At another class in the session, we'll talk more about how and when to use those same movements based on the music they are hearing, but they've gotta get somewhat comfortable with the movements themselves or they won't be able to do anything at all. Expecting students to be able to interpret music in any way, when they have virtually no grasp of the movements used in that interpretation, isn't good teaching.

I talk about music interpretation all the time with my beginners, but I don't expect them to really begin to "get it" until intermediate, when we study it more in depth.

Most beginners are a little leery of thinking for themselves, and it takes a while to get comfortable with it. But by acknowledging their discomfort and assuring them that it's okay to give it a try and not do so well, then start again, usually asuages some of their fear.

Good luck with your new system, Fariha, I think you'll find it successful and satisfying!

Deborah

I use choreos and improv with students. My raw beginners are asked to walk out into the center and do "one thing we've done in class with the veil tonight" I have found that is as much as they can do. a few classes later I ask them to do their favotie movement and one other somtimes.
For more advanced student ( beyond beginner, not "advanced level") Students learn group dances and are asked if they are interested in creating their own choreo for haflas. I think it is a step along the way to create a choreo. I think students who do this get to really explore the music, how they like to move, and what movements make sense togther. After doing that they are much more likely to feel comfortable improving. Some students realize they don't really like solos and decide they like being part of a group choreo instead or to add to their own solos.
I really believe in starting raw beginners with little bites of improv from the beginning but not expecting them to feel comfortable for a long time.

Originally Posted by faaria

I use choreos and improv with students. My raw beginners are asked to walk out into the center and do "one thing we've done in class with the veil tonight" I have found that is as much as they can do. a few classes later I ask them to do their favorite movement and one other ...
I really believe in starting raw beginners with little bites of improv from the beginning but not expecting them to feel comfortable for a long time.

I do something similar, but a couple years ago I changed just one little thing that seems to have made all the difference- as we go around the circle, you not only have to come up with a movement, you have to show us how to transition from the previous movement to your movement- then we all practice the transition as well as the 2 movements before moving on to the next person.

I am one of those people torn by the choreography situation in teaching.

Unless you are hugely skilled, a learned choreography a) looks like one, and b) is often a watered down technical display with no heart or substance.

There are people out there who teach amazing choreographies and those who can execute them so well they dont even look like it has been choreographed.. this comes at a much higher level.

I am not fond of the idea of beginners performing their choreographies in public as they seldom resemble a dance, or even the spirit of a dance from the ME.

Some styles are very good performed in groups as they were meant to be and this is ok.

I never teach choreography unless it is for a specific performance. I personally dont find it a valuable learning tool.

Shall I start another thread on choreographies as a method of teaching? It would be interesting to see how useful it is and on what basis.

Originally Posted by caroline_afifi

I am one of those people torn by the choreography situation in teaching.
Shall I start another thread on choreographies as a method of teaching? It would be interesting to see how useful it is and on what basis.

I think this topic would make a very good thread!