Thread: minimum knowledge

Forgive me if this has been discussed here before... but what do people here feel the minimum knowledge should be for teaching ME dance?

What do you feel the checklist should be for new teachers?

what are the priorities and what are they based on?

I think it varies depending on what type of class you want to teach. If you are teaching a "fitness" centered class, your knowledge has to be more along the lines of safety and proper technique so as not to hurt your students. If you want to teach a more "traditional" ME dance class, then you need to know much more about the dance itself - history, roots, differences for regions, etc.

Wow...for starters
1 Safety for your students (posture, technique etc.)
2. A good understanding of the music.
3. A fair understanding of cultural context and history.

Thank you both.

I am talking specifically ME styles.

Hi Anala,

Can you be more specific, what do you consider a 'fair amount' or 'good amount'?

It is these points I am trying to get to grips with in terms of what people feel is the minimum to teach.

Cheers

MOVEMENT: hip circles, horizontal figure eights (parallel to the floor), vertical figure eights in line with the body ("maya"), full body undulations and vertical figure eights isolated in the pelvis, weighted and unweighted hip lifts, weighted and unweighted hip drops, unweighted hip drops and hip lifts layered on pivot turns, ribcage circles, chest lifts and drops, snake arms, shoulder accents and shimmy, head slides, choo-choo shimmy, folkloric (thigh) shimmy, modern Egyptian knee shimmy, 3/4 shimmy, spot turning, some ab work. Proficiency in many of these moves involves being able to do them in both forward and reverse direction and/or being able to travel while doing them.

ADVANCED MATERIAL: finger cymbals, veil, cane for Arabic styles, some balancing ability, floorwork for Vintage, Turkish, or AmCab.

MUSIC: basic understanding/recognition of major rhythms, at least one drumming lesson, ability to make rough categorizations--or at least educated guesses--of musical ethnic styles (Egyptian sha'abi, Khaleeji, Debke, Turkish Rom, Rai, etc.), recognition of significant artists' names and compositions/performances, ability to understand and count music using time signatures, ability to differentiate between the sounds of common instruments in a ME band.

STYLE: ability to distinguish between different style families of dance, some instruction in common folk dance styles, recognition of significant dancers' and choreographers' names, basic history of the dance.

CULTURE: Familiarity with a map of the ME, rudimentary understanding of Muslim culture (including why Quranic recitations aren't dance music), some knowledge of how various ME cultures differ.

GENERAL SKILLS: Posture and safety info (including the ability to construct sensible and useful warm ups and cool downs), good business sense and ethics, time management, and maturity. I don't care how much you know. If you can't run a class, you're still not ready to teach.

Just dance (these added to the above):

Ability to break down movements, so important for teaching. Understanding of weight changes, muscle groups the movements uses all important.

Ability to put unlimited combinations together for students. The combos you use in class will teach all the movements together and not a string of seporate movements.

Ability to to put a simple choreo togehter for students. At some point this will be needed.

Other abilities:

Ability to direct a class, use class time wisely, keep the class running smoothly with lots of personalities in one class.

Ability to organize the the business aspects needed to teach. Even if you teach at a gym or studio you would still need to keep track of the numbers (trust me sometimes you really need to:), keep student contacts, list classes to promote

(these abilities come with practice and experience after you have a strong technique in dance! But they will be needed at some point, just something to keep in mind)

In addition to the above.
This may sound so obvious as to be silly, but "you can't teach what you don't know."
If you have little to no experience performing out on a professional level, you will be missing a lot of pieces in the teaching puzzle if your students want to perform out in a professional level.

having been trained originally in Turkish style, I am going to suggest that Zills are a basic skill. Not only because they are used extensively by Turkish based belly dancers, but because they help the dancers learn basic rhythms and gain a better understanding of the music.

I am still digging through my files, but several years ago someone published on the web their break down of what different class levels should teach in belly dance. And where to start to add in more advanced technique. From what I recall, this was part of their advanced degree work, so it had been scrutinized by other professionals. It's a good starting point.

{{{HUGS}}}

Oh, another point, a friend of mine in the UK who had started in Raqs Skarki, fell in love with ATS. She had absolutely no training in ATS abd there were no local teachers. She went to London and took several workshops and went home and started teaching. I pretty much reserved judgment although I did breathe a little bit of smoke with the you-aren't-qualified-to-teach stance. (she had only studied RS for about 2 years before switching.) But I do have to give her credit. She has continued to study, going to workshops, came to SF and studied at the mother ship and travels regularly to continue to improve her skills and knowledge. I have seen her troupe perform via video. While at this point they will never be mistaken for FCBD, they also don't embarrass themselves or their art.

So, sometimes with holding judgment is a good thing.

{{{HUGS}}}

Originally Posted by tahiradancer

I am still digging through my files, but several years ago someone published on the web their break down of what different class levels should teach in belly dance. And where to start to add in more advanced technique. From what I recall, this was part of their advanced degree work, so it had been scrutinized by other professionals. It's a good starting point.

{{{HUGS}}}

do you have a link to this? or a lead on how to find it?
i think there was a thread called "how do you know when you're ready to teach" which talked about this, so you might be able to get info there (i didn't read it very thoroughly though) and the "just for fun: bellydance major" we also talked about what you should know at different levels

Originally Posted by raqFariha

do you have a link to this? or a lead on how to find it?
i think there was a thread called "how do you know when you're ready to teach" which talked about this, so you might be able to get info there (i didn't read it very thoroughly though) and the "just for fun: bellydance major" we also talked about what you should know at different levels

Unfortunately, the link is on a computer which is a couple of generations ago and in storage in Nebraska! But I know that there is a print out in one of my files, so I'll go to the storage space tomorrow and see if I can get my hot grubby little hands on it. It should have the URL on it.

Belly Dance University actually had a great deal of info, although it probably went a little over board.

{{{HUGS}}}

Thank you for the posts so far.

I guess one of the really difficult questions is 'how do we measure knowledge'?

How do we 'know' what we 'know' is correct? where can we check that out?
I always think forums are a good place to start.

How honest are we as a community about ourselves and our own abilities and limitations?

I never used to take part in forums, I always assumed they were about social networking, but I have radically changed my mind in the past two years of participating.

Personally my ideas and thoughts have developed hugely since I first began teaching, there is something about managing change in there too and recognising that we should be developing alongside of our students.

Like anything in life, our education in ME dance is lifelong.

There are dancers with "the knowledge" but wether or not they can demonstrate clearly "that knowledge" is another matter. And wether or not they can break it down for students of varying abilities is another one again.
As well as a curriculum of Egyptian (or otherwise) moves and music and a background of history and develpoment, you need to care enough to get to know your students' individual needs . That doesn't mean you get emotionally entangled..it means you have to enlarge your battery of strategies.
I suspect ( no...... more than suspect) there are teachers out there who not only do not keep their own skills up to date nor are competant enactors neither in performance nor class. They do not have the "teaching" skills to manage their classroom be it 6 or 26 students.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

MOVEMENT: hip circles, horizontal figure eights (parallel to the floor), vertical figure eights in line with the body ("maya"), full body undulations and vertical figure eights isolated in the pelvis, weighted and unweighted hip lifts, weighted and unweighted hip drops, unweighted hip drops and hip lifts layered on pivot turns, ribcage circles, chest lifts and drops, snake arms, shoulder accents and shimmy, head slides, choo-choo shimmy, folkloric (thigh) shimmy, modern Egyptian knee shimmy, 3/4 shimmy, spot turning, some ab work. Proficiency in many of these moves involves being able to do them in both forward and reverse direction and/or being able to travel while doing them.

ADVANCED MATERIAL: finger cymbals, veil, cane for Arabic styles, some balancing ability, floorwork for Vintage, Turkish, or AmCab.

MUSIC: basic understanding/recognition of major rhythms, at least one drumming lesson, ability to make rough categorizations--or at least educated guesses--of musical ethnic styles (Egyptian sha'abi, Khaleeji, Debke, Turkish Rom, Rai, etc.), recognition of significant artists' names and compositions/performances, ability to understand and count music using time signatures, ability to differentiate between the sounds of common instruments in a ME band.

STYLE: ability to distinguish between different style families of dance, some instruction in common folk dance styles, recognition of significant dancers' and choreographers' names, basic history of the dance.

CULTURE: Familiarity with a map of the ME, rudimentary understanding of Muslim culture (including why Quranic recitations aren't dance music), some knowledge of how various ME cultures differ.

GENERAL SKILLS: Posture and safety info (including the ability to construct sensible and useful warm ups and cool downs), good business sense and ethics, time management, and maturity. I don't care how much you know. If you can't run a class, you're still not ready to teach.

This is very good.

unweighted hip drops and hip lifts layered on pivot turns,

This stumps me... I take it it is a basic skill...but I am clueless!

Originally Posted by caroline_afifi

I guess one of the really difficult questions is 'how do we measure knowledge'?

How do we 'know' what we 'know' is correct? where can we check that out?

In the absence of a rigorous academic model, we have to rely on an apprenticeship model. To that end, you "know" when a consensus of people who are widely respected in the dance community tells you you are doing it "right."

There's nothing wrong with education via apprenticeship--it's our implementation of it that falls short. If you want to become a roofer, you find someone who currently works on roofing, and he trains you step by step, imparting his knowledge and gradually giving your more responsibility until you are competent to manage the work on your own. He knows, in a worst-case scenario, the student will become his competitor and take jobs away from him, and in a best-case scenario, the master and student will have a long, fruitful professional relationship that brings respect, wealth, and customer loyalty to both of them.

There are not enough dance mentors out there to meet the student demand, and our opportunities only lend themselves so much to a senior dancer "sharing" work with a junior one. The job market is so sparse that dancers who could mentor often choose not to in the name of limiting potential competition, and many of the teachers who do go into mentoring only do so after opting out of the GP performing and/or weekly teaching circuit. Without adequate senior supervision, students who aren't quite ready to begin teaching or performing do so anyway. Sometimes this is with good-but-naive intentions, and other times...

It's perfectly valid to be leery of a system where dancers would be certified into competence with some sort of standardized evaluation, but if we don't want to go that route, then teachers need to step up their efforts to mentor students, or at least pay attention to the ones who need a bit extra shepherding. Part of this simply translates into being more honest with all students about the truth: If you want to be good enough to be a pro, you're going to have to put in time and money on practice and education, and you're going to have to soldier up and take some personal criticism. Showing up at weekly classes where "Everybody's doing great!" isn't enough.

You can't police students outside of class, and you can lead a horse to water..., but if a student is going out into the market with your name on her resume, then I think you do have a responsibility as a teacher to try to inject as much quality control into her education as you can.

Originally Posted by anala

unweighted hip drops and hip lifts layered on pivot turns,

This stumps me... I take it it is a basic skill...but I am clueless!

Yeah, nonstandard terminology for one of those moves everybody does. This is a variation where she's doing unweighted drops on her right leg and pivoting CCW on her left leg: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIf43i8t2-Y]YouTube - Belly Dancing Moves For Beginners : Hip Turns in Belly Dancing[/ame]

You can also take a teacher training and that can give you more confidence and an idea in the order to structure an ongoing class, when to introduce zills, etcetera. There are many available Tamalyn Dallal really gets into a lot of the cultural aspects too, this is essential in learning the roots of the dance.

Originally Posted by caroline_afifi

Thank you for the posts so far.

I guess one of the really difficult questions is 'how do we measure knowledge'?

How do we 'know' what we 'know' is correct? where can we check that out?
I always think forums are a good place to start.

How honest are we as a community about ourselves and our own abilities and limitations?

I never used to take part in forums, I always assumed they were about social networking, but I have radically changed my mind in the past two years of participating.

Personally my ideas and thoughts have developed hugely since I first began teaching, there is something about managing change in there too and recognising that we should be developing alongside of our students.

Like anything in life, our education in ME dance is lifelong.

I think there are all kids of issues about when to start teaching. A friend of mine teaches kick boxing. She told me she started teaching after taking for 6 months and she had no idea what she was doing. But via trial and error she has become very proficient and respected in the area. Once again, she was willing to admit that she didn't know everything, and learned and advanced with her students.

One of the greatest challenges we have in Belly Dance is that there are so many different schools of thought and no single resource. Is it appropriate to shimmy to the Kanun? Well, what style are you dancing? Turkish, yes. Egyptian, generally no. But how do you know, right? Where to get the info.

This art is such a handed down by word of mouth art. There aren't a lot of books written from a very academic POV. This causes a lot of conflict. And even the dancers who have advanced degrees in Dance and Music Ethnology have problems putting this all down. Too many people who have conflicting ideas which then become intransigent and unwilling to accept that theirs is not the only way.

There are a couple of dancers here on Bhuz who are from small town areas who started performing with their troupes very early. They caught a lot of flack. The truth is that their teachers may or may not be qualified to teach by our big city standards. Is what they do or bring to the table any less valid than someone who is lucky enough to be in my position: large metro with tons of highly qualified teachers?

{{{HUGS}}}

Originally Posted by tahiradancer

One of the greatest challenges we have in Belly Dance is that there are so many different schools of thought and no single resource. Is it appropriate to shimmy to the Kanun? Well, what style are you dancing? Turkish, yes. Egyptian, generally no. But how do you know, right? Where to get the info.

eh?

Although my decidedly Egyptian instructor has never actually SAID "Shimmy on the Qanoun," I see her doing it a lot in her performances. When the music quivers, so does she.

I think a lot of the confusion stems from people not being exposed to the kind of Middle Eastern music that actually has an orchestra with a qanoun in it. Too many teachers can't even identify the sound a qanoun makes, let alone identify how they're supposed to move to it.

Originally Posted by aziyade

eh?

make that two.

Originally Posted by caroline_afifi

How do we 'know' what we 'know' is correct? where can we check that out?

My predominant style is Egyptian. I think my understanding of this style really started to become a functioning body of knowledge when I stopped taking it as gospel every time a teacher told me what Egyptian dancers do, and started, well, watching Egyptian dancers.

This is not to say that I don't listen to teachers, but it all goes through a filter, and statements remain attached to their source as a piece of data, not absolute truths.

Originally Posted by ssipes

My predominant style is Egyptian. I think my understanding of this style really started to become a functioning body of knowledge when I stopped taking it as gospel every time a teacher told me what Egyptian dancers do, and started, well, watching Egyptian dancers.

Same. It seems absurd to think you could become proficient at something from another culture via a 2nd, 3rd or even 4th hand understanding of it.

This is not to say that I don't listen to teachers, but it all goes through a filter, and statements remain attached to their source as a piece of data, not absolute truths.

This should be printed out and put up on dancer's walls everywhere. Absolute truth is a lie ;-)

Originally Posted by aziyade

eh?

Although my decidedly Egyptian instructor has never actually SAID "Shimmy on the Qanoun," I see her doing it a lot in her performances. When the music quivers, so does she.

I think a lot of the confusion stems from people not being exposed to the kind of Middle Eastern music that actually has an orchestra with a qanoun in it. Too many teachers can't even identify the sound a qanoun makes, let alone identify how they're supposed to move to it.

Well, let's break this down to an even simpler question: do you lift your heels on a maya? I have 4 different Egyptian style teachers. 1 - Egyptian who liven in the UK until she was 14 then moved to the Bay area and is the daughter of a known dancer, says NO! One American who studied extensively in the ME says Yes! The other two - both American, one lived and worked in Egypt, one goes and trains there frequently - it depends on the day of the week. And when asked, may or may not be able to tell you why heels down is appropriate or not.

In the above example, I don't believe that there is a correct answer. I do believe that there is a correct contextual answer. The problem is, as I think Caroline was getting at, we have no authoritative go-to bible, so to speak. We haven't codified things, so therefore, while there is no one answer, there is also no place which catalogs this dance and the multitude of subtleties and differences.

{{{HUGS}}}

Originally Posted by tahiradancer

Well, let's break this down to an even simpler question: do you lift your heels on a maya? I have 4 different Egyptian style teachers. 1 - Egyptian who liven in the UK until she was 14 then moved to the Bay area and is the daughter of a known dancer, says NO! One American who studied extensively in the ME says Yes! The other two - both American, one lived and worked in Egypt, one goes and trains there frequently - it depends on the day of the week. And when asked, may or may not be able to tell you why heels down is appropriate or not.

In the above example, I don't believe that there is a correct answer. I do believe that there is a correct contextual answer. The problem is, as I think Caroline was getting at, we have no authoritative go-to bible, so to speak. We haven't codified things, so therefore, while there is no one answer, there is also no place which catalogs this dance and the multitude of subtleties and differences.

{{{HUGS}}}

Yes, this is a good example, and one that people often become fixated on in terms of the Way their Teacher taught them becoming The Absolute Truth.

This is also a great example of what I was talking about above regarding listening to teachers vs. watching Egyptian dancers.

If you watch Egyptian dancers, most of them very seldom do mayas at all. So seldom that the heels down vs. up becomes mostly a moot point. A better generalization would be that mayas are just not used very much in the Egyptian style. That is my conclusion based on what I have seen SO FAR. There may very well be 10 Egyptian dancers I haven't had the chance to watch very much who do mayas all the time. As I accumulate more data, my generalization may get modified.

I'm assuming by maya you mean downward vertical figure 8.

Originally Posted by ssipes

If you watch Egyptian dancers, most of them very seldom do mayas at all. So seldom that the heels down vs. up becomes mostly a moot point. A better generalization would be that mayas are just not used very much in the Egyptian style. That is my conclusion based on what I have seen SO FAR. There may very well be 10 Egyptian dancers I haven't had the chance to watch very much who do mayas all the time. As I accumulate more data, my generalization may get modified.

My understanding is that Egyptians occasionally incorporate vertical hip isolations in line with the body, but that they rarely stand there and go "maya, maya, maya, maya" like Western students do. I think it is common in Egyptian style to do figure-eight moves that travel in multiple planes, though (e.g., moves that are neither completely parallel to the floor nor completely in line with the body), so it is still relevant to practice the move as a one-plane isolation.

As far as the heel thing, I thought the reason for teaching students to keep heels on the floor is that this helps to isolate the movement in the right muscles. If beginners lift their heels when they are learning, the move often ends up being driven from the leg and foot. Once a dancer knows how to generate the move properly, heels can be lifted to help exaggerate the visual effect.

Originally Posted by tahiradancer

In the above example, I don't believe that there is a correct answer. I do believe that there is a correct contextual answer. The problem is, as I think Caroline was getting at, we have no authoritative go-to bible, so to speak. We haven't codified things, so therefore, while there is no one answer, there is also no place which catalogs this dance and the multitude of subtleties and differences.

{{{HUGS}}}

Yeah, that sounds about right. How about confusion just within one teacher's sphere? Our teacher initially taught us mayas with the heels down. Later one of her advanced students was chiding someone else for picking her heels up, and the teacher stepped in: she taught them with the heels down to prevent the "stepping over the curb" habit some dancers get when doing a maya at first, picking up their feet as well as their heels. My teacher actually treats that as a style choice, not the "right" way to do them... but this student had interpreted the instruction that way.

So how much "fakelore" arises because a teacher says "do it this way"? I bet... a lot.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

My understanding is that Egyptians occasionally incorporate vertical hip isolations in line with the body, but that they rarely stand there and go "maya, maya, maya, maya" like Western students do. I think it is common in Egyptian style to do figure-eight moves that travel in multiple planes, though (e.g., moves that are neither completely parallel to the floor nor completely in line with the body), so it is still relevant to practice the move as a one-plane isolation.

As far as the heel thing, I thought the reason for teaching students to keep heels on the floor is that this helps to isolate the movement in the right muscles. If beginners lift their heels when they are learning, the move often ends up being driven from the leg and foot. Once a dancer knows how to generate the move properly, heels can be lifted to help exaggerate the visual effect.

I agree with both paragraphs here. I do teach and drill "mayas" in my classes, and in fact I use them in my dancing more than most Egyptian dancers do, because I like them. But yes, the movement, when its used, most often gets used in a very free form, 3-D kind of way during a taqsim.

I think a very good point has been raised, which simply boils down to this:
be honest about what you know. Let people know what your background is, where you know you have deficiencies, let them see that you are still working at aquiring knowledge, and when someone asks you something you don't know, simply say "I don't know, but let me help you find out"

as far as essentials before you start teaching- I think physical safety is a must for ALL dancers, not just if you are teaching a fitness oriented class- anatomy of movement & anatomy of movement exercises are 2 simple, easy to understand books that can get you started on this- there are many, many other resources out there as well that can help you without spending a fortune or getting a degree, but PLEASE take the time to be safe!

I think you need to have integrated any technique you want to teach into your own dancing, and maintain practice in that technique before you teach- don't teach anything you just learned 2 weeks ago (unless you have been drilling that technique nonstop over that time!) Don't just practice until you get it right, practice until you can't get it wrong!

I think you need to be able to analyze what you are doing and break it down in your own mind- why is this kind of undulation different from that kind of undulation, etc. You not only need to know the fine points of how a move is done, you need to have several ways to explain every movement & combination, because different things click with different people. Even better if you know where the different variations are coming from too!

You need to know how to make lesson plans & how to adapt those plans to the reality of the classroom. When I make my lesson plans, I need to know that information x is the building block for information y that I will teach in 2 weeks (or next semester, etc.) If I see that there is some other foundational issue is missing when I am teaching x, I need to back up & go over information v so everyone is on track to continue, or I may need to spend extra time on x or explain it a different way. I also need to be prepared to move on to y early if everyone is comfortable with x in record time... did you follow all that?

Basically, you need to know WHY you are teaching things in a particular order. I do not teach things in the same order as other people in my community- neither one is wrong, just different, but if you ask us all for a list of level 1 moves & level 2 moves, it will not be the same. That's okay, but again, you need to know WHY.

You need a basic understanding of business practices, advertising, accounting, clerical, etc.

You need to know how to tailor performance choreos as well as instruction to different levels.

Even those of us with teacher training or decades of dance experience are still learning as we go along- never ever think you can stop learning! & never be afraid to examine whether something needs to be changed.

That's the best advice I can give- I hope it helps!

Most important in my book - how to devise or adapt choreos so that students are challenged by something that they can achieve and will make them look good. Not something difficult tat they have to scramble through, nor the same old thing again