Why I'm not part of "the community"

[aziyade]

I want your thoughts:

We've spent a lot of time talking about the idea of a bellydance "community" and how we should support one another's endeavors. I like the idea, but ...

For personal (emotional and psychological) reasons, each of us has people who we just can't hang out with. They may be psychologically abusive. Or maybe they encourage us to engage in behaviors we might be trying to quit (smoking, drinking, drugs, whatever.) Or maybe they are really just very negative and hate-filled people who try to make US share their negativity. Our world is full of "poisonous playmates" and "psychic vampires" ready to take us down with them.

Should we embrace these people and force ourselves to spend time with them, or submit our students to their abusive or psychotic behavior just because they are offering a workshop?

(You guys speak pig Latin? You know "Odette-Jay"? That's what I'm talking about, in extreme.)


One of the things I’ve wondered about (as a teacher) is supporting an event or an instructor who has a completely different philosophy from my own.

Let’s say for instance (and I’m not secretly mentioning anybody. This is strictly hypothetical), that a local instructor who is well-known for having NO knowledge whatsoever of “Gypsy” dance is advertising a workshop on “Gypsy bellydance” and teaching a fake type of Eastern European/Middle Eastern Orientalist style choreography. If I KNOW the content of the workshop is crap, and the cultural information my students would get is crap, should I encourage students to attend the workshop JUST to support the “community” ?

I sort of feel like anything I mention in class is going to be construed as a RECOMMENDATION. So if I say “Cinderslut is having a workshop on Esmerelda dance this weekend,” I would think it sounds like I am encouraging them to GO. Why should I support something that I know is utter BS?

If little miss 6-week wonder were to promote herself teaching a “workshop” I would not encourage any of my students to go. For some people, this means I'm not being "part of the community." But why should I support yet another piss-poor instructor? Don't we have enough bad dancing in the so-called "professional" arena?

I don't feel the need to recommend another "teacher's" class when that teacher is barely a student herself, ESPECIALLY if she's teaching at a strip club, porn store, etc. I make a big deal to my students that this dance is NOT exotic entertainment. Why would I "support" someone who does not share this view?

I refuse to support a dancer/teacher/student who undercuts the professional dancers, or who engages in unethical behavior. Does mean I'm not part of the "community" ?

[aziyade]

The one thing I worry about balancing is that I want my students to know what authentic ethnic dance is (in all its forms), but I also don’t want them to be afraid to experiment and explore fusions and American forms. BUT I don’t want to send them to events that I think will send a completely conflicting message from what I’m teaching in class. I have encouraged them to explore the Tribal instructors in town, if they like that look, and I do know some of them are interested in Burlesque, so I tried to explain the differences and how Burly is great if you don't confuse it with Egyptian dance.

I know some people may view this as being "exclusive" but isn't that sometimes a GOOD thing? I'm not going to eat at crappy restaurants just to support the "restaurant community." I'm more than willing to give anyone the benefit of the doubt FOR MYSELF, but I'm not going to send my students to you, or ask my students to spend their hard-earned cash on your video, cd, or workshop unless I can honestly recommend it. Is this "exclusivity" a bad thing, really?

thoughts?

[dunyah]

I hear what you are saying, as an instructor you have to be very diplomatic. Rather than dissing anybody else's class or workshop, I announce in class only the events that I personally can support as having quality information and technique.

I am lucky to live in a "community" that is full of excellent teachers and dancers, we are blessed with good relations, too, for the most part.

If a student asked me privately about a particular event, I would answer why I did or did not think that event would be suitable for said student. But I would try to be diplomatic. If you say negative things about colleagues, it comes back to haunt you, I believe.

You need a trusted dance friend that you can ***** to in private about all the crappy dancers and teachers who are making you feel crazy. And that friend is sworn not to repeat your rants. Just keep them private.

I use this little version of the serenity prayer sometimes:

God grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change;
The courage to change the people I can,
And the wisdom to know it's me!

[yameyameyame]

IMO you don't have to support anyone that you feel is not a good teacher (by for example announcing that person's upcoming workshop), but you need to respect your students' decisions to take classes or workshops from such a teacher.

If they ask your opinion, then you can be honest, but be careful of how you phrase things. You can give a critical opinion on someone else's teaching without sounding petty and territorial.

Then accept your student's final decision. Personally, I'd be turned off by a teacher who actively attempted to get me not to take someone else's class.

[maurazebra]

Aziyade, why, why, WHY do you tie yourself in knots like this.
Be a community with the people you like and respect.

If you are proactive about supporting some outside events, then be comfortable not supporting others. Flip side of the same coin. If you plan workshop field trips in advance, even six months away, then questions from students about attending the Gypsy Pole Belly Dance workshop are more easily deflected. 'I don't believe they are teaching authentic xyz, and authentic xyz is what I am really interested in.' 'It might be an interesting event, but workshop abc might provide a better return on your dance dollar.' (If you are asked to support an event by the workshop sponsors, tell them the same thing. Return On Investment is king. If they want to socialize, have a party, you'll be there. If they want you to spend money, then ROI must be provided.)

And then, as yameyameyame says, step back and let students spend their dollars where they want.

Yes, mentioning it in class will be seen as an endorsement.

I wouldn't accept the label of 'exclusivity' if what is really going on is 'quality control.'

[Tourbeau]

There is a difference between having a valid reason to recommend/not recommend another dancer and being a pot-stirring jerk. As a teacher, you are completely within your rights to say, "I like to publicize all of the events I know about so that you can make your own choices. I do not plan to attend this particular upcoming event because [...], but I am not your mother, and you can make your own decisions on this." As long as you fill in [...] with a legitimate, mature reason, and not axe grinding or malicious speculation, I don't think this is a problem. A professional should be able to tactfully acknowledge that another dancer contradicts what you've learned from a reputable teacher, or that someone else's style doesn't appeal to you without it turning into middle-school snark.

To me, these are "community obligations":

Not engaging in catty gossip
Treating all dancers and students fairly
Not encouraging others to nurse grudges
Maintaining professional detachment
Behaving respectfully toward others and their artistic endeavors
Being a gracious host to everyone who attends your events
Insisting on decent wages and treatment from employers
Conducting yourself honorably
Instilling all of the above values in your students

None of these mean you have to indulge hacks, take sides, or do things that go against your principles. Good community members can afford to be magnanimous, because the dregs will always settle to the bottom eventually.

[LilithNoor]

I refuse to support a dancer/teacher/student who undercuts the professional dancers, or who engages in unethical behavior. Does mean I'm not part of the "community" ?

Do you really need to ask? Unfortunately 'the community' is made up of all sorts of personalities, from the dancer who would give you the bedleh off her back to the one who would posion your hummus if she thought it would get her more gigs.

If you don't like it, don't feel you need to advertise it. Silence is eloquent, and after all, what's going to hurt more in the long run- some random idiot saying that not sending your students off to Suzy Nippletassel's class is a death blow to the community, or your students going, and then wondering why on earth their respected teacher is promoting such rubbish?

[Nabila-Nazem]

There is a difference between having a valid reason to recommend/not recommend another dancer and being a pot-stirring jerk. As a teacher, you are completely within your rights to say, "I like to publicize all of the events I know about so that you can make your own choices. I do not plan to attend this particular upcoming event because [...], but I am not your mother, and you can make your own decisions on this." As long as you fill in [...] with a legitimate, mature reason, and not axe grinding or malicious speculation, I don't think this is a problem. A professional should be able to tactfully acknowledge that another dancer contradicts what you've learned from a reputable teacher, or that someone else's style doesn't appeal to you without it turning into middle-school snark.

This ... thank you, Tourbeau

[tamrahennatx]

Aziyade, why, why, WHY do you tie yourself in knots like this.
Be a community with the people you like and respect.

This.

[Zumarrad]

.....

[raqFariha]

it's certainly not good for the dance if you let your students think that trashy-dancing, or unprofessional behavior, or willful ignorance is OK. the trick is explaining what not to do diplomatically, even if it's clear who's example you're trying to prevent them from following....... still trying to figure that out..... too bad there isn't a "sock puppet" feature for class ^_~
at a certain point people should know better and you have to let them go. but for students/baby dancers they don't know what the "rules" are, dance-wise or social-wise, so it's really in the best interest of the community for you to not advertise events from poisonous, willfully ignorant, or trashy dancers/teachers, because you are educating them on how to be good citizens of that community.

[eshe]

Agree with Maura and Tamra.

I tell my students about events I think they should go to, instructors who I want to study with...and I let them make up their own mind about everything else.

[Elibelinde]

I've become very shy over the years, as the art world in general can be pretty fearsome.

By way of background I started performing professionally in 1974, worked at it full time for many years, retired, missed it and started the (brutal:) path back to the dance in my mid-50's (don't ask:)

By that time the usual snitty battles over "Turkish" or "Arabic" styles had become vastly more complex, especially with the "tribal", ATS and fusion stuff, including vampires even:)

I love the idea of community, of a community, I wish belly dancers as a group were more open, generous and mutually supportive. The fact is though it's always been a challenge.

I think, as a final thought, when it comes to "authenticity," I'm totally there when it comes to music, to movement in a sense. In another sense though art is always evolving, indeed I cracked up the other day when I was reading a BHUZ thread about Nadia Gamal and whether is was "dated" to play finger cymbals.

Hello?

:)

The whole scene has changed enormously in the past decade alone.

So, I think we have to be open minded, have a big sense of humor and be good to each other even if so-and-so is teaching at a pole-dancing club.

My two cents:)

[NandaDncer]

Be a community with the people you like and respect.

Exactly!

If that is the sort of community you want then that's the community you should encourage.

Unhealthy? Unethical? Abusive? I wouldn't encourage a stranger to deal with someone I suspected of any of those, let alone students who look to me for guidance.

If it is someone I don't personally get along with but has a good knowledge base? Well that's the point where I suck it up and keep my personal opinions to myself.

[jewelbellydance]

Exactly!

If it is someone I don't personally get along with but has a good knowledge base? Well that's the point where I suck it up and keep my personal opinions to myself.

Yes indeed. Some of my lecturers at university were abrasive characters, but I kept attending their lectures because of the learning opportunity.

I am happy to attend, or recommend my students attend, workshops run or sponsored by good teachers, even if I don't like them personally. One person's personality issues needn't get in the way of a good opportunity to learn, or to enjoy dancng alongside other members of the community.

Honestly, I've been bellydancing for well over a decade and I can't remember coming across anyone who was so truly awful I would refuse to be in the same room as them. Very few people are totally evil or destructive, and they can't do too much damage to you personally if you refuse to buy into their nonsense. Not that I'm saying there aren't truly awful people out there, but I do think it's possible to take the bad with the good and, by keeping yourself nice and at arm's length, not let too much of the s**t stick to you.

On the other hand, I wouldn't recommend a workshop to my students if I thought the content wouldn't have one single redemptive factor. But if there's something they might pick up or enjoy, why not? The more students become involved in the dance community, and the more aspects they learn about the dance, the more they 'buy in', and that's good for my business too!

[Nubian]

It is too bad. I have been dancing for a long time, but didn't become part of a community for many many years. I kind of stood away from it, especially when I would lurk and read how some dancers treated each other on the Internet. Though, I am sure you are talking from "in your face" experiences. I haven't been out there long enough to see it. But, so far I discovered that I have found so many that are positive open-minded people within my area; that I am glad that I didn't let what I read control my desire to be part of it.

[SatinWorship19]

As usual, MauraZebra and Tourbeau have both given some great, practical advice on how to handle the situation.

Until this past year, I used to stick my nose in scene politics. All my friends did it, and I didn't really see anything wrong with getting things off my chest. Then, I carved out my own successful niche outside of the competitive restaurant and teaching scene - and that's when I became quite averse to the rumor mill.

I guess when you become more confident in your own power to contribute positively to the local arts, you gain a Teflon hide and the gossip rolls right off your back. If you're the real deal, and if you market yourself as such, customers and students will find you. Who knows. If there's a dearth of quality instruction in your area, your lesser-qualified competitors may inadvertantly send serious students your way! In a sense, the undercutters in my community have actually been a boon for my business.

Knowing that the market sorts itself out in a Darwinian way, you don't have to say a word. If somebody asks whether or not they should study with The Dancer Down the Street, all you have to say is yes or no. The last thing on earth you want is to come across as a gossip monger, or one of those teachers who expects a mob-like "loyalty" from your students.

Of course, to get back to the original question, being a good community member is about making educated decisions for the good of everyone. You're under no obligation to actively advertise for your competitors unless you can actively vouch for their quality. And you're not obligated to go to everyone's event or patronize restaurants that mistreat their dancers just for the sake of "supporting the arts." A restaurant that pays $30/set doesn't give a flying flounce flip about supporting the arts, so why should we support them?

[ZanaRaqs]

And you're not obligated to go to everyone's event or patronize restaurants that mistreat their dancers just for the sake of "supporting the arts." A restaurant that pays $30/set doesn't give a flying flounce flip about supporting the arts, so why should we support them?

this. and everything everyone else already said

[Lara L]

Satin, Tourbeau & Maura have responded eloquently- being part of a community does not mean you have to be a doormat, or participate in every aspect of that community.

[SatinWorship19]

Satin, Tourbeau & Maura have responded eloquently- being part of a community does not mean you have to be a doormat, or participate in every aspect of that community.

Yeah, this is how I've ultimately come to peace with what (for me) has always been the most idiosyncratic part of the biz.

I don't agree with everybody else's business practices, and I'm sure most people probably don't agree with mine. I'm a hardass, formal businessperson and I don't put up with funny business from customers - I never did in the corporate world, and I refuse to do it in the arts. But even if this makes me stick out like a sore thumb in a very old-school, laissez-faire community, I'm at peace knowing that I'm running an ethical business and setting my own standard for people to follow if they wish. Being proactive about rates and professionalism has a far greater ripple effect than simply attending all the haflas and being everybody's Facebook pal.

[faaria]

"Yeah, this is how I've ultimately come to peace with what (for me) has always been the most idiosyncratic part of the biz.

I don't agree with everybody else's business practices, and I'm sure most people probably don't agree with mine. I'm a hardass, formal businessperson and I don't put up with funny business from customers - I never did in the corporate world, and I refuse to do it in the arts. But even if this makes me stick out like a sore thumb in a very old-school, laissez-faire community, I'm at peace knowing that I'm running an ethical business and setting my own standard for people to follow if they wish. Being proactive about rates and professionalism has a far greater ripple effect than simply attending all the haflas and being everybody's Facebook pal."

__________________
YES! You just said it perfectly.

As for how I deal with my students. I make them aware that they should go to whatever events they want! I aslo make it clear that for my own BUSINESS reasons I don't attend at some events myself. I tell them right out that my bussiness decisions shouldn't affect their workshop choices and leave it at that. If they come to me and want my honest opinion I will give it.
As for being part of the "community" that is all self appointed anyway. Do your own thing, stick to your vision for your business and don't worry about the rest. You have your own community in your studio that you need to support, that is the important thing!

[aziyade]

As usual, I'm getting a tremendous amount of good advice here, so thank you all VERY much!!

I think I have a handle on how to approach this now. Thank you ALL!!! :)

[SatinWorship19]

Yup....next time you're tempted to participate in the gossip mongering, take a deep breath and remind yourself, "I've got my own business to take care of right now. The world will go on with or without my opinion."

I know this because I do it all the time. LOL

[azhaar]

I don't agree with everybody else's business practices, and I'm sure most people probably don't agree with mine. I'm a hardass, formal businessperson and I don't put up with funny business from customers - I never did in the corporate world, and I refuse to do it in the arts. But even if this makes me stick out like a sore thumb in a very old-school, laissez-faire community, I'm at peace knowing that I'm running an ethical business and setting my own standard for people to follow if they wish. Being proactive about rates and professionalism has a far greater ripple effect than simply attending all the haflas and being everybody's Facebook pal.

[Mychelledancer]

I think a community can be whatever you make it, and it doesn;t necesarily imply that all dancers are equal in skill or teaching ability. The Sacramento community has had a long, uphill battle to come together and support each other - we have had a few bad apples, one in particular, who have spent their entire careers dragging down this community to protect their own interests. But we are coming together more and more these days, and are better able then ever to support each others' endeavors and unique contributions.

Our community is comprised of professionals, students, hobbyists, and yes, the few troubling gossips and nay-sayers. There is a distinction between the top dancers who have put in the most effort and the up-and-comers, but everyone I know is kind and respectful. I only recommend a few teachers to my students, and when I can't do a gig there are very few dancers whom I will refer a client to. I have a very strong business ethic, and believe in hard work and skill mastery before dancing for pay. But we can still have haflas that feature a variety of dance styles and skill levels, we can still discuss ideas, take each others workshops, and support each other. Being a part of your community, to me, means enjoying a shared interest and working together to improve conditions - it doesn't mean blanket referrals for everyone or accepting bad attitudes.

And lastly, I do understand that there are just some people whom we will not get along with, and who are always going to be gossipy and critical. I do my best to avoid local belly-drama and focus on the positive. I am am member of my community, but very much run my own ship and do my own thing. It seems to me that these bad apples eventually isolate themselves and aren't so welcome in the community anyways. And I can always smile and be polite, then go hang out with the nice bellydancers!

[Safran]

"I've got my own business to take care of right now. The world will go on with or without my opinion."

This is brilliant! I want to print it out and hang it before my eyes - like a carrot to a donkey..g.:

[LiesaB.]

I think a community can be whatever you make it, and it doesn;t necesarily imply that all dancers are equal in skill or teaching ability. The Sacramento community has had a long, uphill battle to come together and support each other - we have had a few bad apples, one in particular, who have spent their entire careers dragging down this community to protect their own interests. But we are coming together more and more these days, and are better able then ever to support each others' endeavors and unique contributions.

Our community is comprised of professionals, students, hobbyists, and yes, the few troubling gossips and nay-sayers. There is a distinction between the top dancers who have put in the most effort and the up-and-comers, but everyone I know is kind and respectful. I only recommend a few teachers to my students, and when I can't do a gig there are very few dancers whom I will refer a client to. I have a very strong business ethic, and believe in hard work and skill mastery before dancing for pay. But we can still have haflas that feature a variety of dance styles and skill levels, we can still discuss ideas, take each others workshops, and support each other. Being a part of your community, to me, means enjoying a shared interest and working together to improve conditions - it doesn't mean blanket referrals for everyone or accepting bad attitudes.

And lastly, I do understand that there are just some people whom we will not get along with, and who are always going to be gossipy and critical. I do my best to avoid local belly-drama and focus on the positive. I am am member of my community, but very much run my own ship and do my own thing. It seems to me that these bad apples eventually isolate themselves and aren't so welcome in the community anyways. And I can always smile and be polite, then go hang out with the nice bellydancers!

Very well put!! This is how I tend to view...

[zamora]

One of the things I’ve wondered about (as a teacher) is supporting an event or an instructor who has a completely different philosophy from my own.

welcome to my world. i got accused on bhuz once by a local for boycotting a work shop.i was stunned! how vain to think we are all up in her bizznesss ! like we did not know, why would we?...kammie little? last time i looked, that was american tribal....no interest here.! i believe she left here and i on another forum.
but yeah, community is hard when no one else is a part of what you do.there are only 4 of us in fresno proper.2 teach rountens, 1 american tribal fusion...and me.
what i found is the "community" is with in ones own group , in these situations.

[Andrea2]

I live in Jefferson County, Missouri. It just happens to be the meth capital of the United States, but I don't participate myself. It's just an extreme example of how people can be in your community whether you like them or not. It truly would be wonderful if we could all "just get along", but we can't. I don't think you are under any obligation to inform your students of any dance events that are happening when you question the content. If they ask you outright you can explain, but keeping silent is the best way to go IMHO. You don't have to isolate yourself to be happy, but you do need to choose your associates with care.

[lizajuk]

Do you really need to ask? Unfortunately 'the community' is made up of all sorts of personalities, from the dancer who would give you the bedleh off her back to the one who would posion your hummus if she thought it would get her more gigs.

If you don't like it, don't feel you need to advertise it. Silence is eloquent, and after all, what's going to hurt more in the long run- some random idiot saying that not sending your students off to Suzy Nippletassel's class is a death blow to the community, or your students going, and then wondering why on earth their respected teacher is promoting such rubbish?

Exactly... communities will contain people who you really do get on with and others who are an anathama.
One teacher I know has a thriving class and when I see her perform , I see very strange technique and her students seem to be learning little of what I recognize as belly dance but they are having fun. People ask me about her class and I say that it's about fun and fitness(that's what the students told me) . I don't agree with bellydance classes being unconcerned with culture and technique that but it ain't illegal and I can't do anything about it. She has never done me any harm nor been anything other than pleasant and supportive of me.
I will speak out against the obviously unethical or misinformation.
I will also now refuse to have anything to do with a dancer who let slip she was a supporter of the BNP (fascist UK party). I don't bother with individuals like that:others will be able to ignore her affiliations I can't.You cannot ignore racism or it has won.