Thread: Difficulties learning a choreography taught facing me

I am miserable at any choreography DVD (like Hadia or Mohamed Shahin's videos) that is taught facing me, where I am expected to translate it

I am OK if the person mirrors (says left and moves right), and am especially good if they are facing away for the demonstration.

First, is this normal for the brain to work this way? Or do some people's brains automatically know that the body part on the screen's left is their right?

Secondly, if you did experience this issue, did you manage to overcome it and how? Because I have loads of DVDs that I can hardly use because they teach face-on and my brain can't even parse what the person is doing (unless it's something simple like 4 hip drops and a turn and even then I have to talk to myself in my brain - ok looks like right, that means you do left. remember, left hip..yes, you should look opposite...okay she is saying right foot, we have to do right foot even though we say left. ok...) a constant stream of guidance that is difficult to keep up with if the video is fast and doesn't repeat a lot.

This is why I have a mirror facing the TV. I face the mirror and watch the TV that now appears behind me.

I have the same problem. I've tried facing the same way as the teacher on the video and looking back over my shoulder--keeps me from getting disoriented, but hurts the neck and shoulders after a while. I've tried bouncing the image off the monitor behind my back to a mirror in front of me. I've tried pausing the video every few minutes. Honestly, I just use those videos for entertainment instead of drilling. I can't reverse well, either.

I have that problem, too. I'm not sure of a solution or why this. I've met people who cannot follow someone who is mirroring the move. I tend to just continue to mirror with the DVD, since I'm not really interesting learning the choreography to perform it. Even if I were, there would be no reason to do things exactly how they do it.

Nepenthe, I'm so glad to hear you say this. I get totally disoriented trying to reverse what someone is doing in these cases. I usually play the video on my big studio TV and then use the mirror, like Yaalini mentioned.

I have that problem too. I solved it by simply going the direction I see on the TV. :)

IndigoStars - I usually do that (ignoring their references to right/left) which may have made it worse - in this case, it was a cane choreography, and I'm a right-handed cane user, so I couldn't just switch to my left.

I LOVE the mirror idea! I'm going to set one up at the back of the room!

Originally Posted by SirenoftheSun

I have that problem too. I solved it by simply going the direction I see on the TV. :)

Ditto!

Thank God! I thought it was just me.

Originally Posted by bintbeled

Nepenthe, I'm so glad to hear you say this. I get totally disoriented trying to reverse what someone is doing in these cases. I usually play the video on my big studio TV and then use the mirror, like Yaalini mentioned.

Me too! The mirror thing works for me. Reversing direction is hard for me because the weight shifts which are so important are not as evident to me as my brain tries to convert sides!..l;,

wow ! thank you ladies ! we were in class, we all put on a tie for veil.everyone had it on the right arm but 1...she said that was the arm i had it on in the video.....i have taught dance since 1966....this was a first !

Nonono - dancing is a right-brained activity, and the fault is with the DVD makers. When I danced in contemporary companies we used to always turn the monitor to the mirror. You have to learn from what you see and you don't want your left brain waking up and getting in the way with "wait a minute - is that left or right?" kind of questions. When we film our troupe leader for choreography purposes we aLWays film her from behind, with her reflection in the mirror visible for reference.
Nothing wrong with you guys at all!

I like the mirror idea! Also, for combos that you really like, I think it is worth it to work them both directions. Helpful when you get fluster-feet and accidentally go the wrong way! :)

I have not used a mirror, but I have used the TV's reflection off of pictures covered in glass for Ansuya's zills video, IIRC (it's one that has you turning, and turning, and turning). That way, no matter which way I turned, I could follow her on the screen.

This trick also worked when I had to learn a jazz dance routine from a musical - I couldn't learn it in reverse because I was part of a fan "shadow cast" (where performers act out the parts while a movie plays on a big screen). It just wouldn't work to learn it in reverse when I had to dance it the right way, so I mirrored the moves on the reflection wall, so that I was duplicating the direction of the TV screen behind me.

love the mirror idea...
I usually tape a giant L and R to the sides to the TV to match the directions of the instructor. It works pretty good because there's a visual reference for each move.

i do not see it as right brained..we do EVERYTHING to both sides.balance...but i told my student about the mirror tip thank you all so much!

Right-brain/left-brain isn't about sides of the body as it is about how you're thinking - I think "left-brain" is the rational, logical side and right-brain is the artistic side.
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateralization_of_brain_function]Lateralization of brain function - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

First a mini-rant: why would any teacher worth his/her salt think this "face the student and use my directionality" method is appropriate?! And on a video??!! Sheesh . . .

Sorry 'bout that; it just makes me so mad! ,m::

Now to be more helpful:

To learn a troupe choreo on my own, I have used the mirror-behind-me method. Turns are a bit tricky, but it works out after awhile.

If I'm just following along, I go the direction as demonstrated on the video. Gets a little sticky with the playback telling you the opposite of what you're actually doing, but if it's mostly drilling, it's not too bad.

Nothing new that other folks haven't tried.

But I'm still fuming that people actually produce videos (or teach live) in this manner! Harumph!

Deborah

I agree with you casbah, I think facing towards students/video camera, and still using your own left and right is lazy teaching.
It is extremely difficult and counter-intuitive to do the opposite of what you see in front of you.

It certainly makes me sad that all of Hadia's videos are filmed that way! I love her teaching but it really messes me up. But at least she goes slowly and breaks things down, and she has a "from the back" runthrough of the choreography.

This DVD, which shall go unnamed because I have great respect for the teacher in person, goes through about 16-32 counts of choreography very quickly (while facing you) - "Do this do this do this do this do this. Understand? Ok, to music." I was starting to feel like I wasn't that good of a dancer because I couldn't follow along (as I do have a friend that has the videos and likes them a lot).

Don't Nourhan's choreography DVDs do the same thing? And what always puzzled me about hers - she does it fast FIRST, then breaks it down. Then you don't get the chance to do it fast. It's like...taking the math test before you got to read the chapter. Again, I'm sure that some dancers follow right along but it always makes me feel like an newb even though now I've been dancing for many years and have no problem in workshops with similarly difficult choreography.

Just realized I put this in the instructor center. Meant to do student center. Oh well - applies to both! It's about how I'm being instructed at any rate.

When I am video-ing a choreography to load to my secret YT channel, to help my students learn it, I always film it so that I'm dancing with my back to the camera, so that they are getting a "students' eye view", just like they do in class.

Originally Posted by beafarhana

When I am video-ing a choreography to load to my secret YT channel, to help my students learn it, I always film it so that I'm dancing with my back to the camera, so that they are getting a "students' eye view", just like they do in class.

Bea, I do that, too, when I video for students. The camera is behind me and slightly to the side, so they can follow along behind me, but also see expression etc in the mirror.

I love all the suggestions on this thread, because I have the same problem.

I am so jealous of people who can just watch a dance head-on and pick it up! When I was on the dance team in college, one of our dancers could pick up choreography to a tee just but watching a music video - I never understood how she did it! But it was great for us, because we were able to "borrow" steps from Brittany Spears, NSync, etc (it was the late 90's...)

Originally Posted by bintbeled

Bea, I do that, too, when I video for students. The camera is behind me and slightly to the side, so they can follow along behind me, but also see expression etc in the mirror.

Me too! Otherwise I think the video would be hurting more than helping!

One other thing I do that I don't think anybody mentioned--if the instructor in a face-on DVD is wearing a hip scarf tied to one side, I'll tie mine to the same side. I.e., if the instructor's hip scarf is tied on her right hip, I'll tie mine on my right hip. Then I don't think about left and right at all, but rather about knot side and, um, not-knot side :-)

I'm curious: out of those of you who don't like learning face-on, how many of you had your early dance instruction facing into a mirror?

My first two years of classes were mirrorless. I did take some mirrored classes later, when I started cross-training with different teachers, but even then, half were still mirrorless.

I'm pretty comfortable learning face-on, unless a choreography has really complicated directional changes.

Originally Posted by jmdruadh

I'm curious: out of those of you who don't like learning face-on, how many of you had your early dance instruction facing into a mirror?

My first two years of classes were mirrorless. I did take some mirrored classes later, when I started cross-training with different teachers, but even then, half were still mirrorless.

I'm pretty comfortable learning face-on, unless a choreography has really complicated directional changes.

My early dance instruction is in western dance, from the age of 2-18 - and it was ALWAYS in front of a mirror!

I have taught one bellydance class where there was no mirror, and I did a combination of facing them and reversing my moves so that they could mirror me, and facing away from them and having them follow me from my back.

I like learning face on, in fact I greatly prefer it to standing watching a teacher's bum for an hour, the part I object to is when you are expected to 'reverse mirror' the teacher by going in the opposite direction.
So when they use their right leg or travel to the right, you do too, and it's towards the other side of the room from the way they are going.

Originally Posted by Nepenthe

Right-brain/left-brain isn't about sides of the body as it is about how you're thinking - I think "left-brain" is the rational, logical side and right-brain is the artistic side.
Lateralization of brain function - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Exactly - right brain activities are artistic, intuitive, visually oriented. Left brain is verbal/analytical. Of course you need/ use both sides in learning choreography, but when you're trying to follow someone's movement spontaneously and recreate that movement in the moment, you don't want your analytical (and often self-critical) voices getting in the way. See Betty Edwards "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain".