Spin Off Thread: Zills

[bethsoren]

After reading the thread on zills, I realize that I should probably spend some time working on my zill technique. I have a love/hate relationship with them. I love everything about them but hate playing them because I am not very coordinated! Any suggestions on videos, methods, etc. that you have found helpful in the pursuit of zilling!?! ..g.:

[latriamou]

http://www.maryellendonald.com/
she is incredible. she has a lot of great resources on her webpage and things that you can buy from her. she did a workshop in maryland and i learned so much, it improved my zilling and she gave us drills to do so strengthen our rhythm identification and our hands, fingers and arms to have the stamina to play.
hope this helps

[vilia]

I don't know if you're just starting out, but if you are, so much the better. Any new move you learn, also do it with zills. Maybe start with arms and a simple rhythm, move on to using them with stationary moves, walk with them. It's important to start using them early, because once you've mastered the movements and have to add zills to the mix you won't want to "mess up" what you've already mastered by learning to do something new at the same time.

[HotDogYogini]

Here's a thing I did while learning - I put on some music with a good beat. (mostly Hossam Ramzi "Best of Beledi and Saidi" in the beginning) I rode my exercise bike & played my zils for practice. That got me comfortable enough with the rhythms to play with music & dance at the same time. Now I practice to the various Putamayo CDs - Turkish Groove, Arabic Groove, North African Groove, From Cairo to Casablanca, dance, zil, try to get an aerobic

[Genisis]

I find that when my hands get tired that if I roll the wrist as I play that I can keep the rhythm going solid.

~*Gen*~

[mish_mish]

When you play RLR (or LRL) kinds of patters, think "and a step" as you play Right-Left-Right.

Start off slowly doing coordinated hip lifts as you play your zill pattern. It's hard to explain, but I swear, it works.

Mesmera's zill video helped me a lot.

[elisagamal]

for me, it was monotonous, relentless repetition. but once I got it in my blood, it stayed there. I used to run a printing press, which made a very rhythmic noise (chucka ching chucka ching chucka ching!). I'd bring my zills to work with me and play along as I minded the press. at least until my boss made me stop because customers started asking if there was a bellydancer in the back. after that, I'd play them in my car (I had a thin steering wheel. and I could steer with my palms as I drove. not sure if I'd recommend that!), or I'd walk around downtown with my coat sleeves down over my hands and play, play, play. I laugh now to think about it - no way would I think to do that now! - but I was 19 and didn't mind the raised eyebrows. ;)

put your zills on with some loud music and just play them and march around. get/make some zill mufflers and put on your headphones and go for long walks (or get on the exercise bike, as written above!) and play, play, play. I personally would recommend practicing your zills with a moving activity other than practicing your bellydancing: with bellydance, you might just practice for a song or part of a song or get frustrated or bored with it and not spend as much time as you might want/need to. if you're out for a nice long walk, you've got no distractions to keep you from doing long periods of that mindless chucka ching chucka chinging that you need to do to beat the rhythm into your bones.

if you keep it up until you get over the plateau, eventually you may find yourself at the point where it's difficult to dance *without* zills.

[bellydnsr123]

I really like "Learn to play finger cymbals with Jamila" (Salimpour). I got the cd and the manual as I am a visual learner also. I ordered them form Suhaila's old website.

Heather

[kahaz]

Find as many teachers, dVDs, other dancers as you need. Practice until you find a method that works for you.

Some things that may get in your way (besides non practice):

1. Left handed. It took me years to get beyond this. Until Morocco-she's a leftie herself and she teaches 1-2-3 instead of R-L-R. Made a huge difference

2. How you hear music/rhythm. If you are a tempo dancer (as opposed to a rhythm dancer) you'll hear music differently; this isn't a problem unless you're dealing with a teacher that doesn't understand the difference.

3. You can't make 1-2-3 fit music that's basically 1and2and3and4. I can't and probably never will. Therefore, most "zill patterns" are worthless to me. I play to the music, not to a pattern.

And-the biggie-getting over the idea that zills are hard! Yeah, they are, but one day, while you're practicing, they'll click and you'll say, "OMG, why did I think I can't do this!"

I promise. Put on music, close your eyes, play your zills, and dance. They'll go together eventually. And you'll never look back.

Kitty

[jaziri]

Rather than thinking of it as 123pause, think of it as and-a-ONE since the main tone is on the last of the 3, emphasis is not on "and-a" but on "one!' Too many times people have been taught 123, which puts the emphasis on the first strike.

Some people say ONE pause and-a, but to me that gets hard, I prefer and-a-ONE.

Here is my warmup I do during class: (substitute L for R if L is your dominant hand) strike R L R L in a nice 1234, starting slow. Listen and get the sound down in your ears, 1234. Now, strike R 1234 same tempo. Got that hand going? Add in L so now you have 1&2&3&4&. Start calling it 12345678 rlrlrlrl. Once your brain/ears get used to that, again drop out your non-dominant hand, playing all 8 with your dominant hand. rrrrrrrr. Got it going? Now add in nondominant hand between them. Eventually you have a really fast rlrlrlrlrlrlrl thing going and hands are warmed up.

Percussion rhythms are made of noise and pauses. Where you put the pauses makes different rhythms. 123p123p1234567p is different from 123p123p123p123p. My dominant hand keeps up the regular beat while my non dominant does the pauses, making different rhythms. Yes, my dominant hand sometimes pauses, but it is the main working hand, while the other gets to pause.

BIG advice. BAD BAD BAD way to practice is sitting on the floor listening to music. Stand up, move around. Don't worry about staying in time to any music but just even twitch, just move around, wander here and there, get your body used to the idea that you don't have to keep time, don't have to worry about that for now. And move your arms around so your hands are in different places when you practice. Arm circles, both hands to 1 side, etc. You don't have to look good, but again you are getting your hands, body and ears used to the idea that zilling isn't stationary.

They are very fun, and yes, it can be difficult to do tightly choreographed constantly changing dances, but they are very useful and can be very fun for most dances.

[Monica]

You can't make 1-2-3 fit music that's basically 1and2and3and4. I can't and probably never will. Therefore, most "zill patterns" are worthless to me. I play to the music, not to a pattern.

I definitely agree with playing to the music, not to a pattern (and great comments in general, btw).

But sometimes counting can be valuable, especially when teaching/learning. Instead of thinking of making a 1-2-3 pattern fit to music as you described above, I think of it (in 4/4 music) as:

e & a 1 e & a 2 e & a 3 e & a 4 e & a
__& a 1__& a 2 __& a 3__&a 4 &
__R L R___R L R__R L R__R L R

Or LRL (or doum tek doum, or 1-2-3...I try to say it in various ways for various learners!).

In other words we play 'and a 1, and a 2, and a 3, and a 4'--the third hit is on the down beat. This fits it into 4/4 music. Even when teaching a RLR pattern to new students--and we learn in my classes from day 1!--I make sure to say it this way.

In my experiences this also makes it easier to move into teaching pick-ups/bridges for more complicated patterns.

Hope this makes sense. :) Viva la zill!

M.

[Monica]

Ha Jaziri--as I was writing and counting and editing I see you posted something very similar. Off to read!
:)
M.

[dancerose]

I literally could not figure out how everyone was dancing with zills to the music count until someone broke down the and a 1 thing. I wish I had known that months earlier!!!

[steffib]

A second for Jamila's CD - I cut the single track into separate tracks, put it on my iPod, and then played zills while walking to the bus, to the grocery store, ... (I am a bit of a goofball anyways, so I had not problem with people looking at me funny.)

As a beginner tape, I like Mesmera's. And, I kinda like Hadia's Volume 3 - she doesn't talk about zills (so it's not all that good for starting out), but it's nice to see what she does with different rhythms.

[NajlaHalem]

This is such great info. I have no music background. It was impossible for me to understand how to count music until last year (nobody seemed to be able to explain it to me, I guess it's natural for everyone else!).
I'm trying to figure out here where the whole pattern fits....is it 123 all within the space of the "and a 1"?

[Monica]

I'm trying to figure out here where the whole pattern fits....is it 123 all within the space of the "and a 1"?

Yes.
& a 1= R L R
& a 2= R L R
& a 3= R L R
& a 4= R L R

or L R L for lefties or the ambidextrous--or teachers! (Learning to play backwards and forwards is important so you can face a class while playing.)

[jaziri]

Sometimes I have started people off using just the "1". It ends up sort of like finger snapping in "west side story", and they can finger snap once if they don't have zills too (when practicing). Snap/click "1" and do a hip lift at the same time. Now click and step. Click while lift, click while step. Once they get used to the "1" part, start chanting and-a-1 while they click/lift click/step. Then add in the other 2 hits.

For fun, try the rhythm people often use with masmoudi sagheer (aka "beledi"). R R RLR R RLR RL. Watch your right hand (dominant hand I mean). click click click click click click click click steady beat. Non-dominant hand chimes in here and there to make the whole rhythm. Cool, eh?

I'm a nerd.

[bethsoren]

Thank you, thank you, thank you! Between all the great posts here & the great zill playing at Rakkasah this weekend I feel inspired! I'm off to work on my zills!!!! (OK, so it's 11pm. Maybe in the morning!!!)

[zorba]

All very good advice given already. I like the CD and booklet "Zills on FIre" at:

http://www.cyberlepsy.com/zills.htm

For learning the rhythms. As for technique, I personally prefer stuff like LRL, RLR, LRL, RLR, etc, blah, blah to RLR, RLR, RLR, RLR (Or its inverse LRL) as your basically playing the rhythm without concern about dominant hand, "fast" vs. "slow" hand, etc. But this doesn't work for everybody, use what works!

To expand on the post that so very correctly says DO NOT SIT ON THE FLOOR BUT MOVE:

This goes for arms too. It doesn't matter what your body is doing, or what your zills are doing - if you've practiced the zills in the "chicken wing" pose that EVERYBODY (myself included) wants to practice in - you WILL play your zills there. Move the arms too! I've found that if I can do snake arms while zilling "whatever I'm working on" - its mine.

[bananarchy]

Jamila's CD (already mentioned) is great. Suhaila's online store isn't up yet, but call the studio (510) 526 - 4344 or order it from Cleopatra's Bazaar: http://www.cleopatrasbazaar.com/prod...roducts_id=508

I also like Tobias Roberson's DVD, Finger Cymbals for Belly Dance. It's also at Cleopatra's Bazaar.

http://www.cleopatrasbazaar.com/prod...oducts_id=1073

(While getting the links I'm reminded how much I love Audra b/c she reviews every CD and DVD she sells! Thank you Audra!!)

[yasmindiab]

I think almost everyone on here knows that I am a HUGE fan of Karim Nagi's method...if you ever have an opportunity to take a sagat workshop with him, TAKE IT! :)

He teaches you how to play sagat as an instrument, not just a "prop." There are several different sounds that can be made, and changed throughout a pattern...for example:

the DUM sound is the open ringing sound.
Tek is closed. It makes playing so much more interesting!

Also, Karim stresses being ambidextrous (sorry about the spelling on that)...that is leading with both the right and the left hands.
another example: if you were playing the triple, normally (if you are right handed) you would always play: RLR RLR RLR RLR...till you cry.
With Karim's method, you alternate, depending on which way you are moving. RLR LRL RLR LRL...etc.

Now that I've probably confused the living daylights out of people (I'M confused, and I wrote it out!)...Seriously, if you can take a workshop from Karim Nagi, take it...his method is so great! :)


*k, I'm done being a fangirl.* ..l;,

[kmarissa]

I'm off to work on my zills!!!! (OK, so it's 11pm. Maybe in the morning!!!)

That brings up a side question I've been wondering for a while. I've basically given up practicing my zills because most of my bd practice by necessity must take place between about 10:00 pm and midnight. And I live in an apartment. Selfish though I can be, I can't quite bring myself to practice zilling at midnight one wall away from someone's bedroom ;) Are there such things as zill mufflers, and if so, do they work?

(On the other hand, I've never heard a peep coming through the walls from my neighbors. Seems like the soundproofing is pretty good. Maybe first I should ask the neighbors themselves if they can hear the off-beat clacking through the wall?)

[yasmindiab]

That brings up a side question I've been wondering for a while. I've basically given up practicing my zills because most of my bd practice by necessity must take place between about 10:00 pm and midnight. And I live in an apartment. Selfish though I can be, I can't quite bring myself to practice zilling at midnight one wall away from someone's bedroom ;) Are there such things as zill mufflers, and if so, do they work?

(On the other hand, I've never heard a peep coming through the walls from my neighbors. Seems like the soundproofing is pretty good. Maybe first I should ask the neighbors themselves if they can hear the off-beat clacking through the wall?)

Before my friend knitted a pair of zill mufflers, I used baby socks. Just put the socks over one of the zills on each hand, and you're all set! :)

[kmarissa]

Yasmin, that's a great idea. Cheap, thick enough to be effective but thin enough not to impede the zilling, easy to pull on and off and no assembly required!

[yasmindiab]

Yasmin, that's a great idea. Cheap, thick enough to be effective but thin enough not to impede the zilling, easy to pull on and off and no assembly required!

exactly! and for the sewing/knitting impaired like me, hassle free! :)