Thread: Teaching your students workshop manners

Example: Workshop with Mamoud Reda. Particpants are talking while instructor (who is rather soft spoken) is teaching and their converstion is loud enough to be disrupting to others.
Snarley attitudes when video cameras are pulled out and Mr. Reda asks them to not tape and tells them it is bad manners to assume they may film.
People who are not happy that they cannot tape are grumbling about "How does he expect us to remember things if we cant tape?" Instructor did allow taping at the end of the end of the workshop but tried to point out that perhaps some of the dancers in the workshop would have appreciated being asked if they could be taped too.
Fantasy? No, it all happend in San Diego.
Lest you think this was just beginning dancers that were behaving this way, I can assure you that wasnt the case. The workshop was mixed level and had dancers that IMO should know better or should have spoken with their group before the workshop on manners and respect.
The promoter at several occassions called for quiet in the room but it didnt help for long. Conditions were a full workshop, warm room and soft spoken instructor so maybe the stress and level of being uncomfortable in the room contributed but come on! So, back to the question; do you as an instructor review with your students how they are expected to conduct themselves in a workshop situation?

My instructors never talked to me about it but then again, I am a grown up.

ick!

This is something I wouldn't think I'd need to tell my students, but maybe it is worth to mention as a side note when talking about a great workshop in the area.

Find the worst, give her the run-down of workshop manners without commenting on her own actions, and then tell her to teach it once again to the rest of the troublemakers.

Wow. That's horrible. I don't remember my instructor talking to me but I'm with LinnyG on this - as an adult, I know how to conduct myself in public. Such a shame a few people ruined it for the crowd.

Those are just basic manners, not just workshop manners. Any grown person should know that, regardless of the setting.

One of my teachers used to make general announcements before workshops that she hosted began; it was more like "please, no coin hip scarves" than stuff that should be obvious, like no talking.

I don't go to a workshop to listen to other people yak. I haven't attended a workshop that sounded as bad as you said. [and I'm in San Diego too!], holy cow!

If I'd been the instructor, I'd have stopped teaching (and said so) until there was quiet. Then you get the rest of the attendees doing your crowd control for you.

Hi Bella, I understand that Mr. Reda did say to the class (and I paraphrase now) that in his classes he doesnt yell or need to tell people to be quiet, it is understood that they are there to hear what he says and learn from him.

Of all the teachers in the world to misbehave in such disrespectful, immature ways in front of, I would hope that Ustaz Reda would be the last, but obviously people are either completely ignorant of dance history or so psychologically maladapted that they don't understand how to behave like proper adults. If I had organized the event, I think I'd have jumped up on stage and announced that if it didn't stop, I'd be calling building security to eject the troublemakers, and then followed through on the threat.

It's a shame that it might come to this, but maybe event organizers ought to make participants sign a disclaimer on their workshop forms saying they understand that if they disrupt the workshop, they will be asked to leave--and will be forcibly removed if necessary--without a refund.

A few years back, I was at a workshop with Jajouka. The poor lady is now having hearing difficulties, so I don't think she heard people complaining and cutting up around her. I was shocked that people would be doing that around a teacher with so many years of experience. I was taught way back to listen and learn at a workshop, not socialize or to film. If he offered to allow filming at the end, great. What a horrible workshop. I can't imagine dissing Mr. Reda like that.

I agree that those examples you gave are just basic manners. How incredibly rude!

I dunno, I have this *thing* where I was raised to be deferential to people older than me. I would no sooner chatter and snipe in a class by Mahmoud Reda (or any other 80 year old) than fly to the moon. Add to that the fact that he's a pioneer in our dance form, who you could argue is one of the founding influences on modern Egyptian orientale ... I am actually floored that people would behave that way.

Did these people *know who he was* or did they just think he was Yet Another Egyptian Teacher on the circuit? Man, people have gotten spoiled. And ungrateful.

I never had a dance teacher tell me how to behave in workshops, but I could figure it out from my many years of attending classes in school/college. (I did learn not to wear a coin hip scarf from online forums though.) It is annoying to be in a workshop with students talking over the instructor. I've shushed my workshop neighbors before because I am more interested in listening to the instructor.

I've taught adults at work. I DO start my workshops with a lecture. "turn off your cell phones. you may only answer a phone in this class if you are on call. Anything else, you answer in the hallway. If you don't think you can manage that, please leave now"

I pause. No one leaves, and I have no problems with cell phones. I have told my students that if they are going to workshops, the appropriate code of conduct. Not under the premise that they are children, but under the premise that some of this stuff (like video taping) is not intuitive, including coin scarves, and that it's good information to have.

I think workshop participants act like this because it is acceptable in many places.

I have been to more than a few workshops where there participants are allowed to shop during the workshop, or stand in the back and chat. As the workshop proceeds, more and more people join the chat contingent in the back. To many of these peoples, workshops are not awe-inspiring opportunities to work their butts off with an awesome master instructor, they are opportunities to chat with their cronies from the next state over that they only get to see during workshops. The worst part of this is that these chatters are generally the teachers, group leaders, and experienced dancers who should know better, but they are just setting a bad example for the students.

Our local bellydance alliance website has an excellent article on workshops and workshop etiquette that I like to point new students to:

About-Madison Bellydance Alliance

And while it sucks to have to be the "bad guy" sometimes, I'd encourage people who see poor behavior to take some sort of action (as kindly and respectfully as possible). Some people just DO NOT THINK about their behavior until someone calls attention to it. I've seen it on the bus a million times.

Originally Posted by ssipes

I think workshop participants act like this because it is acceptable in many places.

I have been to more than a few workshops where there participants are allowed to shop during the workshop, or stand in the back and chat. As the workshop proceeds, more and more people join the chat contingent in the back. To many of these peoples, workshops are not awe-inspiring opportunities to work their butts off with an awesome master instructor, they are opportunities to chat with their cronies from the next state over that they only get to see during workshops. The worst part of this is that these chatters are generally the teachers, group leaders, and experienced dancers who should know better, but they are just setting a bad example for the students.

Horrors, yes. I used to think it was because the ones who did it were generally older and possibly not actually fit enough to to the workshop in its entirety, but... Of course sometimes those teacher types are sitting out because they want to make notes instead. But that is not the same as chattering.

And dude, you pay a lot of money for these workshops. It's a very expensive chat.

As to what can a teacher do to encourage nice manners:

- Write an article in a newsletter/ stuck on a noticeboard, about how to behave. It could be humorous, as in 'what not to do'

- Practice good behaviour in class. If a teacher demands respect, concentration and consideration in her own classroom, I expect the students would behave that way in other people's classrooms.

I think the workshop organiser should also keep an eye on things and intervene where necessary, especially if you have such a venerated presenter.

wow..just plain rude and disrespectful

Originally Posted by zumarrad

Horrors, yes. I used to think it was because the ones who did it were generally older and possibly not actually fit enough to to the workshop in its entirety, but... Of course sometimes those teacher types are sitting out because they want to make notes instead. But that is not the same as chattering.

I agree with what you used to think. ,r:;

The participants who have a real issues -- an injury, cramps, migraine, real body limitations are generally on the sidelines taking notes.

The chatters are probably not fit enough to complete the workshop because they don't take the dance seriously (as evidenced by preferring to chat over taking the workshop).

I am not defending anyone's rudeness BUT

Mr. Reda can be extremely hard to hear and he will not use a microphone. His stepwork is extremely complicated and if you are not in the front you might not see it unless he is sufficiently elevated. Therefore I understand the wish to film the workshop.

But certainly, one should ask before the workshop begins whether it's permissible to film. And if the answer is no, one alternative I've seen is waiting for a break and then filming just one's own friends doing what you have so far -- that's often okay, if you check, and sometimes the organizers will run the music once for you so you may.

Having been a vendor, I have to say that I really appreciate it when the vendors are in a separate room. Others may not agree, but when the vendor room is around the corner, it's where people can go to chat and shop and get a respite if they feel overwhelmed. This reduces the disruption to the workshop. (Also it's more likely that the vendor room is a securable area, but that's a separate issue.)

I was fortunate enough to have a mom who taught me to be respectful and quiet when someone was talking, and a dance instructor who emphasized the same.

I was at the workshop for both days, and it appeared that some of the dancers were plain-old-rude, and some were just really excited, chattering, and oblivious.

Either way, it was disruptive. It was entirely appropriate for Mr. Reda to speak up, and point out on the second day that there were several dancers who chose to whip out video cameras and start recording without asking for permission from the host, Mr. Reda, or the other dancers, some of whom I'm sure typically require written permission.

He gave a polite, but firm reproach, to those who deserved it.

It was an inspiration to learn from this great man,

I hope that people heard the message,
And that they change their behavior in the future.

You aren't entitled to video, people, you must respectfully request it.
(or you can purchase the DVD which doesn't require any modification of your behavior)

And, for those who were there on the first day, you are well aware of the fact that he allowed it (video) willingly, after granting permission.

We are all students, no matter our level of skill or experience
Please be respectful, stop-talking-in-the-middle-of-a-workshop, and you will be much more able to recieve the information and the learning that is being presented to you:)

bit of a rant, Sorry, I just flew home tonight,
had a great weekend, but now. faced with going back to work and doing laundry, I'm kind cranky..c::

Originally Posted by kina

I've taught adults at work. I DO start my workshops with a lecture. "turn off your cell phones. you may only answer a phone in this class if you are on call. Anything else, you answer in the hallway. If you don't think you can manage that, please leave now"

I pause. No one leaves, and I have no problems with cell phones. I have told my students that if they are going to workshops, the appropriate code of conduct. Not under the premise that they are children, but under the premise that some of this stuff (like video taping) is not intuitive, including coin scarves, and that it's good information to have.

Kina, totally agree with this; setting up the ground rules for the day is extremely helpful; it sets the tone and the expectations for everyone right at the beginning.

And, yes, believe it or not, on Sunday, there were several cell phones that went off,
Oy.

After witnessing a jostling match that nearly became a fistfight during one of Faten Salama's workshops last spring, nothing like this surprises me anymore. It just makes me really sad.

I have a "survival" guide handout for my students that I give out if I know they are going to a workshop, particularly if they have never been to one before. Its has tips, like how to write notes, what to take (noisy and quiet scarf in case the instructor doesn't like coin ones), ideas of what you should bring (notebook/pen/water/emergency kit of bandaids, wet wipes, hair ties and pain killers/meds, that sort of thing) and what kind of things they can expect to experience. I also include warnings like make sure your cell phone is off before the class starts, if your scarf starts to shed coins/beads to take it off and replace it with a non-shedding one, be aware of your surroundings so you don't crash into anyone, that sort of thing. Never occured to add no talking and have some common sense...lol

I don't mind when someone makes a few quiet comments to their compainons at a workshop, I try to encourage students who have gone with me and look like they are feeling overwhelmed with a few smiles and well chosen words since I know them better than the workshop instructor would, but I try very hard to keep my voice down and not to distract from what is going on.

see, I'm still shocked. this is so ridiculously inappropriate. I still can't believe how freaking rude and selfish society is getting in every arena. stating ground rules in advance is good, since there are so many dopes out there these days, but I guess I just expect that once something has been stated, the instructor shouldn't have to keep bringing it up and nannying people.

Originally Posted by Salena

(or you can purchase the DVD which doesn't require any modification of your behavior)

That assumes a student has enough impulse control that they won't have already spent all of their money on costuming and trinkets first, instead of things that actually improve their technique or knowledge. I'm not sure I would make that assumption, considering we're dealing with people who don't have enough sense and self discipline to behave respectfully in the presence of a man who single-handedly changed the course of Egyptian dance.

I was at a workshop with Aziza a while back and was dismayed that she had to stop her teaching and tell some people to shut up. Aziza is such a nice person; I hated that a few rude people essentially brought negativity to her and the whole room. But at the same time I'm glad she did it -- I think it was a good lesson for everyone that dance workshops are to be taken seriously!

Originally Posted by ssipes

The participants who have a real issues -- an injury, cramps, migraine, real body limitations are generally on the sidelines taking notes.

The chatters are probably not fit enough to complete the workshop because they don't take the dance seriously (as evidenced by preferring to chat over taking the workshop).

Drives me nuts when I have occasionally fallen into category 1 and people try to drag me into category 2- If the class/instructor has my rapt attention and I am taking notes, you do NOT have permission to wander over & talk in my ear. Same goes for performances- just because you can't sit still or shut up long enough to watch a show respectfully does not mean I want to join you. Sorry, I did not drive 300 miles & pay workshop, hotel & travel fees to hear the latest twist on your humus recipe, or direct you to the coffee. ,m::

I may have to go design a 'leave me alone, I'm dancing' shirt...

It's a rehash of everything complained about on this thread but I decided to do a blog post I Please feel free to add more in the comments.

The only etiquette tip I give my students going to workshops is to wear a non-coined hip scarf. Since I allow coined ones in my class, I wouldn't expect them to know not to wear one unless I passed along the information.

Other than that, they are all adults and I would expect them to act appropriately in regards to not talking, videoing without permission, and generally being distracting and rude. I mean, I don't put up with any of that nonsense in my class, so I don't know why it would occur to them to do it in a guests instructor's workshop. All of my students seem to be much more intimidated and shy in a workshop than they are with me, so it would shock me if they started acting like a bratty teenager.