Thread: What dance background helps in ME dance?

What type of dance background (such as jazz, tap, ballet) is benefical as far as ME and BD is concerned?
Is a back ground in non eastern dance a handicap since the accents and
interpretations are so different?
What about martial arts?

I think classical dance training (ie, ballet, modern dance) is beneficial for belly dancing. There are certain skills that belly dancers usually fail to teach, such as centering, which are standard in classical dance training. When I started getting coaching from a classically-trained dancer, I discovered that one of the reasons I'd had trouble with centering was because the arm carriage and posture that had been urged on me by belly dance teachers in the past tended to throw off my sense of balance. Adjusting my arm carriage as recommended by the classically-trained dancer made me feel much more grounded and balanced. I also learned that certain arm carriage is important if you're dancing under theatrical lighting in order to avoid casting shadow on your own face. There are, of course, also certain classical dance moves that belly dancers frequently use, such as spotting for spins, doing chainé turns, etc.

As for whether classical dance background is a handicap, I think a lot depends on the student. For some, I think it would be a handicap, whereas for others I don't think it's a problem. For example, someone with a ballet background might have difficulty forcing him/herself to allow the torso to move freely and keeping the feet pointed straight forward instead of in turnout, but if that person recognizes that you need to make adaptations in technique for different styles of dance, then that issue can be overcome. In another example, ballet dancers are accustomed to delivering someone else's choreography, whereas in belly dance it is common to create our own, or even improvise.

As for martial arts, a good class will teach balance and centering, and of course martial arts helps with general fitness which benefits any dance form. I wouldn't recommend that a student take a martial arts class for cross-training, whereas I might suggest a student take a ballet or modern dance class for cross-training. The reason I find dance classes preferable is that they teach the skill of moving in time to the music, of doing accents on musical beats, of creating phrases in your movement that align to phrases in the music. Although I've seen martial arts demonstrations choreographed to music, it's not the norm for how martial arts is taught to the masses. I don't think martial arts background would present an obstacle to learning belly dance, I just don't see it as a strong complement to belly dance.

I agree that classical ballet training can be really beneficial. There are techniques common in both dance forms (turning, spotting) plus other skills that crossover - how to transfer from one move to the next, understanding where your weight is and how to naturally shift it, fancy footwork, etc. I think these positives are greater than the 'negative' that ballet dancers have to re-learn their lines, make the dance more earthy and internal, etc.

I think also that ballet, and perhaps other forms of dance, teaches you to consider your whole body when you dance - the move doesn't stop at the hip or torso, you have to consider your posture, carraige of the arms and head. Those other aspects contribute to graceful, elegant dancing. I find that this doesn't come so naturally to students with no previous dance experience. They'll really focus on the hip work,for example but forget about the rest. It adds to what they need to learn.

All good points. I don't have a ballet background but I have had two workshops with ME teachers that have referred heavily to ballet terms.
What I have noticed is that each teacher calls what I see as the same move something different. It takes me a while to catch on in workshops as I have to translate the move into the name I can identify with.
I agree very much that martial arts teaches centering and balance.
I think that with male dancers a cross training in martial arts might be easier to imagine than a ballet class.
I think that the comments about posture in traditional training are right on.

I think it depends a bit on what you did first.
A dancer who starts out with many years of ballet will often look like a ballet dancer, no matter what other style she does because it has been beaten into her so much.

But if you take ballet as a second dance, I think you will tend to just take over the thinks that help for your Oriental dancing. And probably drive your ballet teacher crazy ..g.:

I have been doing Bharata Natyam for 10 years now and it helped me with stamina and strenght as well as awareness of hands, arms and expression.
Otherwise the two dance forms are very different, so I don't incorporate any BN movements into my Oriental. But my BN teacher has certainly fought a lot with my loose hips ..l;,

MEISSOUN

Polynesian dancing (especially Hula and Tahitian) have been really helpful as a previous experience class for me personally-some of the moves feel very similar to me, and I have seen tribal dancers use moves that were definitely pure Hawaiian, such as the `uwehe. I think Tai Chi is a good cross training martial art-it's all about the centering, and mind/body awareness.
Nikki

I've been told I picked up zills quickly, and that my 13 years of flute lessons probably helped. Classical flute, but maybe it did help. Now I am trying to teach myself the more middle eastern sounding scales.

What great points! I agree that there are so many ways in which classical dance, martial arts and music training can help.
A couple things that haven't been mentioned yet are 1)general body awareness. The more training you have the more body awareness you develop (each on an individual basis of course)
Also- discipline. Classical dance training and martial arts training generally teach great work ethics, strong discipline when it comes to training, realistic self assessment through honest critiques as well as high respect for the art and the masters. You don't get second year ballet students trying to dance en pointe on stage in a company. You don't get yellow belts saying "let me compete with the 5th degree black belts".

I think my life time of Ballet, Modern, and jazz did help my training in belly dance. It also heavily effected my style as well! although I don't feel I look like a ballet dancer I do retain balletic movements and arm work.
I teach using belly dance and ballet terms. Can't see renaming arms, foot work, and positioning when they already have a name. I do always say "If we were in a ballet class we would call it this and it would look like this. BUT we are belly dancers so we use it like that!" (OK maybe i don't make sense to anyone!)
I do feel that dancers with experience in other dance forms do have a strong work ethic as stated! it is up to Us as teachers to expect this in belly dance as well!

I think modern dance is the best for transferring to belly dance (using the centre, flow and feeling, improvisation). For learning sagat, I think tap really helped (it's just tapping with your hands instead of your feet!).

I do ballet port de bras exercises to get my belly dancers to feel the supporting muscles in their backs and torsos for arm strength and control. But I do it using BD posture from the waist down.

Ballet and jazz may be a little too "western" in their approach (bunheads find it hard to get gooey with their pelvises and jazz bunnies tend to be too "pow-bang" in energy), but any kind of body awareness helps!

Bunheads!! LOL!! Oh thats too funny. I was a "bunhead" for about 15 years. I hated ballet. I had to unlearn a lot of stuff when I started bd - but you have no idea how wonderful it was to be told to "bend your knees" and "keep your heels down" rather then "UP UP UP" and get whacked with a yardstick.

However, I attribute my previous dance experience with my ability to remember choreography, to count music and to use my arms. So yes, I think ANY type of experience/crosstraining helps.

I took jazz, ballet and tap for years - even entered college as a dance major. I also I had to spend a lot of time unlearning my western dance posture and style. LOL, oroboros - "jazz bunny"; that was SO me! Ironically, my current teacher is reintroducing me to some ballet techniques to help strengthen my arms and upper body posture.

But it's been an immense help to me in regards to remembering/creating choreography, body awareness, grace for traveling and turns, and having a significant amount of performance experience. I don't think I'd be where I am now at all without my western dance background.

ballet

Hi Anthony, welcome to buzz.

I agree with everyone here. Experience in a number of dance/sports fields is beneficial to BD.

I once studied Pencak Silat, which is an Indo form of martial arts. There are 2 areas you can specialise in, either self defence or dance. The dance area which I loooved, you would take on characteristics of animals such as tigers and emmulate them in the dance, which also featured many fighting moves. So if you can imagine perhaps doing a roll on the ground, going into a high kick, then finishing with a turn, your hands in tiger like posi. I had already come from a dance background, but I noticed in others who had only ever done PS, their movements were fluid, bodies supple, beautifully balanced and graceful, yet had much strength at the same time.

Ballet is also very complimentary, as long as one has not spent their entire life solely doing ballet, because they may be a bit rigid, and have a hard time NOT turning out their feet (thats me sometimes). I often use ballet moves in classes, whether it be turns or plies (for buns of steel), and I think the combination of all the dancing I've done...ballet, modern, jazz, contemporary, tap, acrobatics etc etc has benefited my BD in arms, posture, suppleness, ability to remember choreo, musicality, and general confidence.

I have two daughters who are "bun heads"! (One is a fencer, who her teacher calls Lexi the LION) They have also spent two summer programs with the New York State Summer School for The Arts Dance Program (NYSSSA), which centers on modern dance. They both take daily ballet classes and modern. They also both take my classes. They switch styles very well and don't get stuck in the bun head thing, so it can work! I guess maybe having a Mama who is a belly dance teacher got them out of it early!
I do think that taking a ballet class will help ALL dancers to work on the all important weight shift! AND arms (my pet pieve! Get the arms graceful or at least under your control and I am happy.)
Just my two cents which in todays world is worth, ahhh, nothing!
The same things, by the way, can be taught by a belly dance teacher who teaches arms, foot work, and wieght shifts!!!!

Quite apart from anything else, ballet is useful for terminology. You go into a class with an Egyptian and they start going "plie chasse arabesque", well at least you have some idea what they're on about even if it isn't quite the same as at Madame Fidolia's.

Originally Posted by zumarrad

You go into a class with an Egyptian and they start going "plie chasse arabesque", well at least you have some idea what they're on about even if it isn't quite the same as at Madame Fidolia's.

Yeah, that was weird the first time an Egyptian teacher started with the "chasse chaine arabesque" stuff! .w.: I never thought they would use ballet terminology (I've since studied with M. Reda - okay, cured!)

Oh Ballet Ballet Ballet - and Polynesian - preferably Tahitian

I'm a teacher for folk Cretan dances 20 years certified from the hardest Greek Council. It gave me strength and stability.
Flamenco helped me on hand roots.
Beside that I believe that a backround in Ballet and modern dance is very helpfull.
The worst i believe is latin dances. Students that I have that have latin backround are very hard at hands and cant stop the latin posing.

Maria Aya

We probably all think that whatever background we each have is most helpful.

I think musical training is very helpful, and also pilates for quickly building core strength.

Sedonia

I always find it interesting that people with no dance background or much of any background in sports or workouts are drawn to the dance.
I find that with many students it is the first time they have taken dance classes of any kind.
Many of them never had the opportunity as a kid to do classes and many say they were intimidated to try as an adult.
I think they try BD because it appears to be more dancer friendly.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned: folk dancing of the Middle East! I've noticed that people who already have a feel for how the music of the area applies to movement -- even non-raqs-sharqi movement -- seem to be a step ahead on understanding this dance.

Let's pretend we're opening a Bellydance High School of the Arts. What would the required courses be over four years?

--Percussion
--Music Theory
--Pilates/Core Work
--Ballet
--Bellydance: Turkish
--Bellydance: Egyptian
--Bellydance: other ME styles
--Bellydance: ATS
--Sewing
--Costume Design & Repair
--Choreography
--Troupe dances
--Folk dances of the Middle East
--History
--Props
--Makeup & Hair
--Electives: Flamenco, Polynesian, Rom dances, Modern dance, dances of India...

anything else? What did I miss?

Originally Posted by ssipes

We probably all think that whatever background we each have is most helpful.

Although there's some truth to that, I was a dancer with a Scottish Highland pipe band for 3 years, but I did not suggest that Scottish Highland dancing would be a useful background for someone to learn Middle Eastern dance.

Originally Posted by tigerb

One thing that hasn't been mentioned: folk dancing of the Middle East! I've noticed that people who already have a feel for how the music of the area applies to movement -- even non-raqs-sharqi movement -- seem to be a step ahead on understanding this dance.

Let's pretend we're opening a Bellydance High School of the Arts. What would the required courses be over four years?

--Percussion
--Music Theory
--Pilates/Core Work
--Ballet
--Bellydance: Turkish
--Bellydance: Egyptian
--Bellydance: other ME styles
--Bellydance: ATS
--Sewing
--Costume Design & Repair
--Choreography
--Troupe dances
--Folk dances of the Middle East
--History
--Props
--Makeup & Hair
--Electives: Flamenco, Polynesian, Rom dances, Modern dance, dances of India...

anything else? What did I miss?

Debke!

And language classes!

..l;, ..l;, ..l;,

I very much wish I'd had training in ballet and/or modern dance. I wish I had come into BD with an awareness of my whole body in space, the lines I'm creating, and with strong posture, arms, balance and control. I feel like the dancers who've had some kind of classical training have it all over me in these regards -- let's not even talk about people who've danced since childhood & how easily they memorize choreography!!!

Originally Posted by tigerb

One thing that hasn't been mentioned: folk dancing of the Middle East! I've noticed that people who already have a feel for how the music of the area applies to movement -- even non-raqs-sharqi movement -- seem to be a step ahead on understanding this dance.

Let's pretend we're opening a Bellydance High School of the Arts. What would the required courses be over four years?

--Percussion
--Music Theory
--Pilates/Core Work
--Ballet
--Bellydance: Turkish
--Bellydance: Egyptian
--Bellydance: other ME styles
--Bellydance: ATS
--Sewing
--Costume Design & Repair
--Choreography
--Troupe dances
--Folk dances of the Middle East
--History
--Props
--Makeup & Hair
--Electives: Flamenco, Polynesian, Rom dances, Modern dance, dances of India...

anything else? What did I miss?

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yeah or at least someone should develop a Ballet for Bellydancers class. I work at a dance production company and they do ballet and modern/ contemporary. I'm thinking of asking one of the teachers to come teach a Ballet for Bellydancers class for all those reasons you guys were mentioning. it might do us some real good. I know i'd be interested in it.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

Although there's some truth to that, I was a dancer with a Scottish Highland pipe band for 3 years, but I did not suggest that Scottish Highland dancing would be a useful background for someone to learn Middle Eastern dance.

Ha-ha! Yes, I did Highland dance for ten years and I'd say celtic dance (Highland or Irish) are the diametric opposites of raqs sharqi!

Lately I have been doing a ballet tape occasionally. Melissa Lowe - Ballet Workout - Kultur. I just do the beginning - I cut it off when she gets to jumps. It's quite easy & it's very good for my knees, legs & feet. With a mirror to look in, it could be fine for a beginner, for practice in between classes or instead of taking a class. I wish I had something similar which went through more than just the 1st 2 foot positions.

Originally Posted by SamiraShuruk

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