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  1. #1
    Advanced BHUZzer caroline_afifi's Avatar
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    what do you do?

    Teachers, what do you do when a student rejects any sort of feedback and then even becomes hostile about it?

    Students, have you ever felt angry about feedback you have recieved and if so, what was it exactly that made you mad?

  2. #2
    Advanced BHUZzer bul_bul_ksa's Avatar
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    Re: what do you do?

    Hard one to answer...I've never gotten angry about feedback; I actually appreciate feedback.

    You need to remember though that people come to your classes with a whole lot of expectations and baggage. Are you sure she is actually being hostile to YOU and not really angry with HERSELF?

    You may need to sit her down outside class and explain that the teacher-student relationship is based on: teaching, student listening and teacher feedback and that if she can't adhere to that she needs to seriously think about if your class is appropriate for her. She may just be behaving in a way that she doesn't think is so outwardly hostile...pr, of course, she could just be a total cow and that discussion should send her packing :)

    Also, have someone you trust, and who has watched you teach in the past, give YOU feedback about your style. I know one teacher used to say at times in class, 'oh no, not like that!' and it used to cut another student in two inwardly...but I also know the teacher would not have been aware how hurtful the 'playful' (coz I'm sure she thought she was being playful) feedback was....

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    Advanced BHUZzer caroline_afifi's Avatar
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    Re: what do you do?

    Hi Bul Bul,

    It is not really something that happens to me alot as i generally teach once per month and people know what to expect from me.

    It was more of a general question as i did observe this recently in a situation and it made me curious.

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    Ultimate BHUZzer lizajuk's Avatar
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    Re: what do you do?

    As a student, I've sometimes felt resentful when I've assumed I was doing my best but usually I trust my teachers to have observed something I'm missing. I tend not to go to teachers I am dubious about so the ocassion to challenge doesn't arise. I have to say I never liked being singled out but hey you have to if you want to improve so I've got over it.I think this is the problem with a lot of students.."Please don't show me up"Some go to classes which are big and teacher doesn't have time or teacher doesn't bother that much and when they get attention..it's pow.
    I tell my students that I am not about fun ( though I hope they have it),I am not about fitness ( though there is an inciidental benefit) but about doing it properly so when they ask for me to re-demonstrate or break down more clearly , that's my job. I tend in class to highlight those who are going wrong by addressing a class generally or standing near the student concerned or casting a quick glance at offending feet etc. But I am a teacher of beginners and they need much more generalised feedback. I am also aware that not all students are serious about "doing it properly", sadly.
    Personally I'm just pleased you haven't smacked me yet!..g.:

  5. #5
    Advanced BHUZzer raqFariha's Avatar
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    Re: what do you do?

    i've actually gotten annoyed when i DIDN'T get feedback. in a class i don't take anymore (for a number of reasons) i asked for the teacher to harp on me about my failure to keep my chest up, she never did, although i shouldn't be too surprised because she didn't really give anyone feedback.

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    Mega BHUZzer Sahirah_Badr's Avatar
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    Re: what do you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by raqFariha View Post
    i've actually gotten annoyed when i DIDN'T get feedback. in a class i don't take anymore (for a number of reasons) i asked for the teacher to harp on me about my failure to keep my chest up, she never did, although i shouldn't be too surprised because she didn't really give anyone feedback.
    My worst habit. My chest is larger than my hips and being self conscious about this, I tend to roll my shoulders forward to 'hide it'. I still get poked in the back at rehearsals - a gentle reminder 'I'm doing it again'. lol!

    I will always be a 'feedback piggie'. Sadly, I do not think it is given enough.

    Perhaps your student had a bad day, and this was a last straw to her already rough day. You can't know what each student's day/life is like, you are paid to teach her to dance correctly. I'd shrug it off to other factors, but please, don't stop giving feedback because she could not handle it at the time.
    Other students need it. ..g.:

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    Mega BHUZzer eshtabellydance's Avatar
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    Re: what do you do?

    I gave feedback to someone once who really didn't like it. She was doing these big wide figure eights but insisted on keeping her feet so close together that it was affecting her balance. I was trying to show her the difference when you move the feet apart and how it affects the movement and she shot back "I am going to do it the way I want to do it."
    Ok fine. Fall on your face.
    And then she started spamming me about a student night I had organized at a local restaurant. A field trip to watch a local dancer and band. She kept emailing saying she wanted to come in her costume and couldn't understand why that wasn't appropriate. I explained that she wasn't performing so it wasn't the thing to do.
    She didn't even show up. Now she is bugging me for info about joining my new class. I just don't want her there. arrrghh! I can't bring myself to respond to her email.

  8. #8
    Ultimate BHUZzer Tourbeau's Avatar
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    Re: what do you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by caroline_afifi View Post
    Teachers, what do you do when a student rejects any sort of feedback and then even becomes hostile about it?
    Some people react to embarrassment or frustration with anger, so as a teacher, you have to try to determine whether your student is actually angry at you or herself. None of this excuses a rude overreaction, though.

    If this is a one-time workshop thing, I'd write the person off as a crank and just avoid correcting them for the duration of your contact. (If it comes to it, feign "Hands off!" as you walk by them when you're going around the room making corrections, so everybody else knows you're intentionally passing them by, not because they're doing it properly.) If this is an ongoing student-teacher relationship, you may need to have a talk with the student and explain that your ethics as a teacher demand that you point out your students' mistakes, and if that is too troubling for her, then perhaps you aren't the right teacher for her, or she needs to switch to private lessons where she can receive her feedback one-on-one.

    Students, have you ever felt angry about feedback you have recieved and if so, what was it exactly that made you mad?
    Feedback that is waaayyy too late. Do not say, "Oh, I noticed you've been doing that wrong for months." If you noticed it months ago, you had months prior to this moment to correct me. You should have said something then, not let me keep doing it.

    Feedback that doesn't belong in front of a group--in front of a group. Don't critique my performance at a gig that nobody else in the classroom was at in everybody else's presence. It's not helpful for them to hear what I did wrong when they don't know what you're talking about anyway.

    Vague, left-handed compliments. "Well, that's an interesting way to do it..." (Shall I presume it's also the "wrong" way, too?) "I'm sure the next performance will be better." (What was bad about the last one?)

    Personally offensive feedback. Your job as a teacher is to evaluate my dancing, not my personality flaws or physical shortcomings. If these things do affect my dancing, discuss them with me privately and professionally, and for heaven's sake, don't do it with another student behind my back.

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    Master BHUZzer zamora's Avatar
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    Re: what do you do?

    i suggest other styles of this dance with other teachers and hope they find what they want there.

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    Advanced BHUZzer theothershimmytwin's Avatar
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    Re: what do you do?

    I heard via the grapevine once that someone thought my technique was starting to suffer....I had the opinion that I had refined my technique and thus had smaller, more defined movements rather than the exaggerated ones...

    after some serious practice, I DO realize that my technique was poor, but since it was only through the grapevine, I didn't take it seriously and dismissed it.

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    Established BHUZzer anthea's Avatar
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    Re: what do you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by eshtabellydance View Post
    And then she started spamming me about a student night I had organized at a local restaurant. A field trip to watch a local dancer and band. She kept emailing saying she wanted to come in her costume and couldn't understand why that wasn't appropriate. I explained that she wasn't performing so it wasn't the thing to do.
    She didn't even show up. Now she is bugging me for info about joining my new class. I just don't want her there. arrrghh! I can't bring myself to respond to her email.
    You do realize students read these threads too right?

    I'd say just keep correcting her in class (when appropriate) & she may come to the realization herself that she needs a different teacher. Unless you feel her outbursts are becoming disruptive to the whole class that is - which may be the case. I think students get uncomfortable when other students have an inappropriate reaction, but it's hard to tell because of course they usually don't say anything.

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    Master BHUZzer shems's Avatar
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    Re: what do you do?

    I had one student storm out of a class after I corrected her saying something along the lines of if she wanted to be corrected she would have taken classes with (insert name of some other teacher who corrects her students). I was baffled for a moment, but then thought, oh well. If she can't take a minor correction, then we aren't a good match. I don't harp on my students individually, and I do try to be nice when I do correct individuals, or I walk around a correct a lot of individuals at once so they know everyone is there learning. But on the occasions when I've driven students away, I just figure not every teacher is for every student, I need students who can handle it when I say rotate your hand right or angle your body left.

    I know in my heart it is my prerogative to make my students look good. I'm not interested in making anyone feel bad. I hope that they understand that I offer corrections for their betterment, not mine. As long as you know where your heart is, then you know that however your student reacts, you are doing your job sincerely and with good intent and you can feel good about that.

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    Master BHUZzer SamiraShuruk's Avatar
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    Re: what do you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by shems View Post
    I had one student storm out of a class after I corrected her saying something along the lines of if she wanted to be corrected she would have taken classes with (insert name of some other teacher who corrects her students)....
    LOL. THIS is funny to me. It doesn't matter whose name she used. This type of student is not in class to learn dance technique - they might want fitness, community or ego stroking, but they're not committed to actually learning the dance.
    If a student in their own mind doesn't need feedback, generally they think they ALREADY KNOW IT ALL, and can do it all - WHY are they in class? Don't waste my time! I'm a TEACHER not a cheerleader/ ego stroker!
    A teacher invested in their students' growth, gives feedback for improvement in technique and understanding AND gives encouragement. A teacher wants his/her students to improve, understand and appreciate. Growth and success in learning this art form DO NOT just happen because a student shows up to class.
    I still take a regular class, and privates when I am able to. I have great respect for the learning path and growth process. I also am very wary of people who feel they don't have room for improvement.
    As a student, I've seen people walk out of learning situations they couldn't handle. These situations, each and every time were the student's baggage. The feedback was kindly given and the exercises were simple.

    There are different kinds of feedback. Some feedback will only need to be given once or twice- some will need to be given over and over and over again. A teacher also is at times like a coach with repeated reminders. I do my best to deliver them nicely. I know some teachers don't take it to this level... but - as I see it- if a student is still offbeat (not a current student dilemma, which is why I chose that example) - am I helping her learn if I don't mention it? In my mind, my integrity as a teacher means I nicely bring these things up within level appropriate guidelines.
    Quote Originally Posted by shems View Post
    ....As long as you know where your heart is, then you know that however your student reacts, you are doing your job sincerely and with good intent and you can feel good about that.
    The teacher with ego/insecurity issues that cause them to berate or belittle their students on a regular basis are few and far between.
    I think most teachers give feedback out of genuine desire to see their students succeed.
    I think I can put it "I do my best to help my students do their best." I think this also means I won't get the student who is firmly invested in going to class and just "going through the motions" or not putting in genuine effort. This is OK. There is a teacher for everyone.
    If a student can't take feedback and you're a teacher who gives feedback... let them go. You'll both be happier.

  14. #14
    Advanced BHUZzer crystalllized's Avatar
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    Re: what do you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by caroline_afifi View Post
    Teachers, what do you do when a student rejects any sort of feedback and then even becomes hostile about it?
    If the feedback is for physical safety like regarding lower back, knees, etc. then yes, the student needs to hear it and if he/she doesn't follow. You need to talk to her after class because it is a matter of safety.

    But, if the student is becoming hostile over stylistic corrections and NOT in a performance troupe, then I would leave him/her be (unless again, it is a matter of safety).

    It is irritating because as a teacher you want everyone to learn and progress, but sometimes students come to class not to learn an art form, but to just get a break from the day and move around a bit in a somewhat structured environment.

    It was a hard lesson for me to learn as a teacher, but not everyone wants to be a pro belly dancer or even dance with a troupe.

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    Ultimate BHUZzer Tourbeau's Avatar
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    Re: what do you do?

    Ultimately, this is a compromise between how little you can stand to get from your students and how much effort they are willing to put forth to learn from you. Personally, I would rather have a few dedicated students who share my level of commitment than a roomful of students who think I am a too serious, nitpicking killjoy, but I'm not trying to make a living at this, and I understand that where one falls on the spectrum is a complex function of personalities and circumstances.

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    Master BHUZzer shems's Avatar
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    Re: what do you do?

    honestly, from a student's perspective, I always appreciated teachers who could nip a problem student's bad behavior in the bud. It is up to the teacher to set the tone for the whole class and if you have a student freaking out over correction, well, I would hope the teacher would have a little talk with her or him and let that individual know that behavior is inappropriate in class and if they can't tone it down, they should maybe look for another teacher. I believe you will gain more respect from your other students and in the long run gain and retain more students if you don't let the drama makers take hold.

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    Master BHUZzer SamiraShuruk's Avatar
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    Re: what do you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by crystalllized View Post
    ...
    It is irritating because as a teacher you want everyone to learn and progress, but sometimes students come to class not to learn an art form, but to just get a break from the day and move around a bit in a somewhat structured environment.
    It was a hard lesson for me to learn as a teacher, but not everyone wants to be a pro belly dancer or even dance with a troupe.
    I think this is where different classes and different teachers come into the spectrum.
    There ARE "for fitness" classes, there ARE "for fun and camaraderie" classes, there ARE "prepare for student show" classes and there are "dance technique and depth" classes that possibly incorporate "heading to pro" track.
    We as teachers all bring different experiences to the table and have different strengths. Our strengths will attract different kinds of students, so there is a place for everyone. One is not "better" than another- although it's fair to say one class might offer a "better fit" for a student (and his/her goals or level of realistic self assessment) than another.
    My classes are geared for people who really want to learn- who will do homework, who will work with feedback and encouragement who will do in class video critiques *shudder*. They all come from different experience levels and backgrounds themselves- but what they share in common and what I love, is that they all work hard to learn and I see them growing.
    I won't stop teaching musicality, sagat or improvisation because some ladies don't want to work in that way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tourbeau View Post
    ...Personally, I would rather have a few dedicated students who share my level of commitment than a roomful of students who think I am a too serious, nitpicking killjoy, but I'm not trying to make a living at this, and I understand that where one falls on the spectrum is a complex function of personalities and circumstances.
    Interestingly enough- the teacher around here with the reputation as being "mean and nitpicky" has TONS of very dedicated students. Giving honest feedback has not harmed her business.
    Last edited by SamiraShuruk; 09-23-2010 at 04:09 PM.

  18. #18
    Advanced BHUZzer raqFariha's Avatar
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    Re: what do you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by crystalllized View Post
    But, if the student is becoming hostile over stylistic corrections and NOT in a performance troupe, then I would leave him/her be (unless again, it is a matter of safety).
    maybe it's that i wouldn't be the right teacher for this student, but i wonder why one wouldn't be open to stylistic corrections since i'd assume that if you're taking teacher x's classes you'd want to learn their style, even if it's only for enrichment (as opposed to "converting" to their style)?

  19. #19
    Advanced BHUZzer caroline_afifi's Avatar
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    Re: what do you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tourbeau View Post
    Ultimately, this is a compromise between how little you can stand to get from your students and how much effort they are willing to put forth to learn from you. Personally, I would rather have a few dedicated students who share my level of commitment than a roomful of students who think I am a too serious, nitpicking killjoy, but I'm not trying to make a living at this, and I understand that where one falls on the spectrum is a complex function of personalities and circumstances.
    This describes me and generally that is what I have and enjoy...

    Part of my living is made from this, but I find that it works better for me to establish who I am and what it is I offer.

    If people in my class are not happy with my feedback, then they manage that well.
    I think as long as people see the benefit from the feedback, then even if they feel frustrated with themselves or slightly bruised, they generally take it on the chin and want more.

    Sometimes though, change is not instant and has to be absorbed by both the brain and body.

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    Ultimate BHUZzer *Shira*'s Avatar
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    Re: what do you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by crystalllized View Post
    If the student is becoming hostile over stylistic corrections and NOT in a performance troupe, then I would leave him/her be (unless again, it is a matter of safety).

    It was a hard lesson for me to learn as a teacher, but not everyone wants to be a pro belly dancer or even dance with a troupe.
    This is a difficult balancing act. I agree with you that it's important to correct issues that could potentially cause injury. For brand-new beginners, I focus on that. There's a limit to how much correction you can give a student on any one day before they start feeling picked upon. So for me, the potentially-injurious issues are where I focus, and I don't start prodding on things like beautiful arm carriage until after the safety-related issues are resolved.

    However, as students gain more experience with the dance, they should be corrected in the aesthetic things as well as the safety things. If you don't correct them, how will they know there's room for improvement? I remember my teacher once telling a student she wasn't ready for the troupe yet because her arms needed work, and the student became upset because the teacher had never, not even once, corrected her arms in class. The student's point was that she should be receiving correction if she needed it, otherwise, how would she ever improve? And, wasn't correction part of what she was paying for?

    Another thing to consider: you never quite know which students may decide to start teaching themselves someday. Sometimes, it surprises us to see who considers herself qualified. Over the years, I've seen people who never performed, not even once, decide to start teaching. Would you feel at least partially responsible if someone you decided not to correct decides to start teaching and transmits those same problems to her own students someday?

  21. #21
    Advanced BHUZzer crystalllized's Avatar
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    Re: what do you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by *Shira* View Post
    Would you feel at least partially responsible if someone you decided not to correct decides to start teaching and transmits those same problems to her own students someday?
    That is an interesting question.

    Short answer: "No" if it is a belly dance fun/fitness class I am teaching.
    "maybe" for any intermediate class "Yes" for troupe/advanced

    Long answer:
    I teach an all level belly dance fitness/fun class, I offer corrections, but if met with hostility over the corrections that do not effect safety, I back off the student specifically and announce "general reminders" to the entire class in hopes the one who needs the correction listens.

    If this hostile student one day decided to teach, I wouldn't feel responsible because he/she would probably have started teaching after a "youtube certification" even if he/she didn't take my class. If faced with the decision to kick the student out of a belly dance fitness class for not listening to "non-safety" corrections or having him/her peacefully do what they want, I would rather keep their tuition.
    In this class I just want to reach as many students as I can to get them excited about belly dance and want to take it to the next level.

    On the other hand, once the new students graduate to the "performance optional" intermediate troupe class I teach, it is more of a privilege to be there and I hand pick who advances to/joins that class. They are pre-warned about being corrected and class expectations.

    If I didn't screen students correctly and ended up with a hostile student in this class who did not want to perform, but was doing things stylistically wrong all the time... as unfair as it sounds, I think I would focus more on correcting the performing students and the students receptive to correction instead of holding the entire class back for that one stubborn person. The conditions in my area allow me to teach only 2 classes per week without losing money. So I can't really divide up the spectrum of classes any more than offering all level and lumping intermediate/adv/troupe together.

    If this difficult student decided to start teaching down the line I guess I would be considered an enabler for not kicking him/her out of the class for being a bad student even if my hope is that they one day "get it". And then it becomes even worse if this student starts name dropping me when applying/advertising for teaching positions... I still don't think I would lose sleep over it. I have trust in the free market system that the difficult/hostile-student-now-teacher would have a short teaching career.

    Thankfully I have not had this situation come up in the intermediate class, but this was a good thread to sort out my "battle plans" and what to expect in the realm of future possibilities.
    Last edited by crystalllized; 09-24-2010 at 04:42 PM. Reason: bad analogy

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    Advanced BHUZzer crystalllized's Avatar
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    Re: what do you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by raqFariha View Post
    maybe it's that i wouldn't be the right teacher for this student, but i wonder why one wouldn't be open to stylistic corrections since i'd assume that if you're taking teacher x's classes you'd want to learn their style, even if it's only for enrichment (as opposed to "converting" to their style)?
    I think this can happen if there are not a lot of teachers in an area for a student to pick from and made worse by people with "artistic differences" and a stubborn personality. Maybe the student doesn't like any of the options, but still wants to belly dance despite that.

  23. #23
    Ultimate BHUZzer Tourbeau's Avatar
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    Re: what do you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by crystalllized View Post
    I think this can happen if there are not a lot of teachers in an area for a student to pick from and made worse by people with "artistic differences" and a stubborn personality. Maybe the student doesn't like any of the options, but still wants to belly dance despite that.
    Actually, I'm not sure the opposite problem isn't worse. There are plenty of cities that have plenty of teachers, but not always plenty of GOOD teachers. In my experience, a large teaching population will usually consist of a few really good teachers, a lot of middling teachers, and a few "OMG, are you nuts?!" teachers. This creates a population of students being trained by teachers with a wide range of competence.

    On the wrong side of the mean, you're turning out students who have possibly never experienced proper teaching methods, respectful behavior, or useful assessment--but often a lot of sloppy ethics, bad examples of both dance technique and professional conduct, and drama. (Not that good dancers can't be ineffectual, whacked-out divas, but the most obnoxious behavior seems to be the domain of the hacks.) If those students studio hop, they can stumble into a class with a qualified teacher where the environment is not at all what they have been taught to believe belly dancing is, and that can be a real culture shock.

    Of course, sometimes serious students end up in the bad classes. Their culture shock upon finding a competent teacher usually takes the form of relief.

  24. #24
    Advanced BHUZzer da Sage's Avatar
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    Re: what do you do?

    Please keep in mind that sometimes frustration can be mistaken for hostility.

    Of course, I am just the sort to take bizarre or insulting feedback with a smile, but never darken the door of the offending teacher's* class again.

    I generally am unhappy with feedback that I believe is inaccurate, especially if someone is implying that I'm not trying.

    I do try to take less-than-flattering feedback as a cue to examine what I'm doing very carefully, to see what I can improve. I usually conclude that there is some truth to the feedback, or that it is just hard to determine by myself whether or not the feedback is correct.

    No matter how accurate or carefully worded negative/corrective feedback is, it has the potential to be irritating.
    Last edited by da Sage; 09-24-2010 at 10:33 PM. Reason: *past local teachers: this is not you! But there was this one workshop teacher from out of town...

  25. #25
    Advanced BHUZzer caroline_afifi's Avatar
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    Re: what do you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by da Sage View Post
    Please keep in mind that sometimes frustration can be mistaken for hostility.
    I see what you are saying but generally there is a difference.

    Of course, I am just the sort to take bizarre or insulting feedback with a smile, but never darken the door of the offending teacher's* class again.
    can you give an example of insulting or bizarre feedback?
    I am interested to know as teacher and students cultures are different around the world


    I generally am unhappy with feedback that I believe is inaccurate, especially if someone is implying that I'm not trying.
    How do you decide who is right and who is wrong?

    I do try to take less-than-flattering feedback as a cue to examine what I'm doing very carefully, to see what I can improve. I usually conclude that there is some truth to the feedback, or that it is just hard to determine by myself whether or not the feedback is correct.

    No matter how accurate or carefully worded negative/corrective feedback is, it has the potential to be irritating.
    Do you feel we are selective about feedback?

  26. #26
    Ultimate BHUZzer tahiradancer's Avatar
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    Re: what do you do?

    I actually had an argument with a teacher a couple of months ago because what she was saying was incorrect and potentially harmful to the other students. It was ugly. Finally, we both came off our position and agreed that both of us had a valid point. But it brought up to me that this teacher 1) doesn't give a lot of feedback in her general classes, and 2) many times when she does, it isn't fully correct. This was about the same time I decided that I needed a break.

    So, sometimes there is more to the story. Sometimes it is the instructor who doesn't know how to give feedback effectively.

    But I agree with whomever said above that we never know what someone is bringing to the table. At one time not so long ago, if anyone had given me any feedback, I probably would have been uncomfortable. Working through those old beliefs and getting rid of that old karma. I know I am not the only one who has dealt with this.

    {{{HUGS}}}

  27. #27
    Advanced BHUZzer caroline_afifi's Avatar
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    Re: what do you do?

    Yes, I agree that many instructors struggle on feedback hence this thread. i think it is useful to hear what various people have ton say on the subject.

    I generally take whatever is given and if I dont like it, I analyse why and dont go back, I never take issue in a workshop.

    For me, I dont mind a bit of humour but I dont like teachers who try to get a constant rise out of critque and turn it into a comedy act..'oh you looked like an elephant on acid' sort of stuff ( No I have never heard this).

    PS. one of the most common things I have come across, are people who look annoyed when i show them something and they say 'well i was taught like this'.. ok but is it the same move? and if so, why not learn another way? if you dont want to.. then save your money and next time stick to the same teacher.
    Last edited by caroline_afifi; 09-25-2010 at 05:01 AM.

  28. #28
    Ultimate BHUZzer Tourbeau's Avatar
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    Re: what do you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by caroline_afifi View Post
    can you give an example of insulting or bizarre feedback
    Sometimes insulting feedback has a kernel of truth to it. "You're too fat to dance," for example, should mean, "Being overweight will be a hindrance if you try to embark on a performance career that is dominated by certain standards of appearance," but it comes across like, "There is something wrong with you, and I am repulsed by the way you move, you cow." Anybody who is ambulatory can dance--but perhaps not always dance gracefully. There are lots of thin people who are clods, too.

    Similarly, bizarre feedback often comes from absolutes. "What are you doing? You can't belly dance wearing eyeglasses!" Really? I am confused. I am wearing glasses, but I seem to be able to dance nonetheless. Glasses affect my ability to do hair tosses (which I personally don't like the look of anyway), but I don't find that they interfere with any dance movement below the neck. Actually, I think that not being legally blind improves my dancing, because I'm not preoccupied with worries of stepping on or running into things--and these are student/dancer-only venues, not professional GP gigs anyway. Don't confuse your personal preferences or the aesthetic standards of the commercial dance world by proclaiming an immutable policy about what is or isn't possible in other circumstances with considerably lower thresholds. If you want to go down that road, then be prepared to draw the same lines in the sand for "old," "imperfect body," and "ugly face."

    Then again, sometimes bizarre feedback is flat-out ignorance. "No, you're saying it wrong. It's 'Ka-leeji,' like 'Call some guy named E.G.' 'Kaleeji' is the Arabic word for 'hair-tossing dance.'" No. No, it is not.

    Do you feel we are selective about feedback?
    Yes. Teachers tend to be heavy on generalities, but weak on specifics, and more likely to say positives than negatives. We worry too much about hurting students' feelings by correcting them, which creates an environment where teachers are made to feel guilty or "bad" for trying to do their work properly--work where students' progress is actually slowed by only praising them for what is right.

  29. #29
    Ultimate BHUZzer *Shira*'s Avatar
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    Re: what do you do?

    I think some but not all instructors struggle to give feedback because they grew up being taught, "If you can't say something nice about somebody, don't say anything at all." This belief is true of many women, in particular - it seems to be a big part of woman-culture, at least in the U.S.

    They may also have grown up in a family environment that lacked good role models for correcting behavior in a kind but productive way. Their role models may have been passive-aggressive behavior, or they may have been angry shouting behavior. Now, this upbringing can be replaced by more effective means of dealing with issues, but some people never learn how to do that.

    The problem, of course, is that these people may believe themselves qualified to teach belly dance because they believe themselves to be skillful dancers. But there's more to teaching than possessing the skill you intend to teach - you also have to be capable of diplomatically correcting errors, dealing with disruptive student behavior, negotiating rental studio space, and all that other stuff.

  30. #30
    Advanced BHUZzer yameyameyame's Avatar
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    Re: what do you do?

    This thread is baffling to me. I don't care if someone is in class to have fun, to get fit, to become a professional, or anything in between, students NEED to be corrected.

    It's simply wrong as a teacher to see a student do something incorrectly and not let them know. It's unfair to the student to assume they are only there to have fun and not correct them as a result of this assumption. So what if a student is there to have fun? They are still there to learn, and learning and having fun are not mutually exclusive. What if a few years down the line they decide to take this more seriously? They just wasted all this time not learning as much as they could and developing bad technique that will be much harder to undo as time goes on.

    I understand that this thread is about students who don't want to hear feedback, not about teachers that don't want to give it. It baffles me that someone would want to go to class and not hear even the smallest critiques. Why go to class, then? Pick up a DVD and follow it as wrongly as you like.

    But as a teacher, I think it is your job NOT to develop a culture in class where this sort of attitude is accepted. A student who does not want to hear feedback should be spoken to, in an attempt to make her understand why feedback is beneficial and should not be taken as an offense. If the student still does not want to hear it, an effort should be made to understand why. If the student has low self-esteem and can not hear any sort of criticism without getting offended, then I think it is possible to figure out a way that the student can get the necessary corrections without the hurt feelings. If the student is an egomaniac who insists on doing things her own way because she knows everything, then I think she should be let go from class.

    With that said, all feedback should be specific and should address exactly what needs to be changed and how. Otherwise it's often useless. I had a teacher that used to tell me something vague about how my performances had no pizazz, no "it" factor, and about how I was so NOT ready to perform professionally, but she would never tell me how I could change any of those things. It was hurtful, because she wasn't wrong, but I already knew those things without her telling me, so I needed to find out how to improve, NOT have the idea of how much I sucked just reinforced by a higher authority.
    Last edited by yameyameyame; 09-25-2010 at 10:45 AM.

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