Thread: Busty Students

Hello,

I just recently started teaching belly dance and I have a student in my class who is extremely busty. Busty to the point of having trouble with chest lifts.

I am very small chested myself, so I don't have the experience to give her any advice.

Has anyone ever helped a student with the same issue? Or are there any busty belly dancers out there who could give me some tips and hints about dancing with a larger chest?

Thanks for the help!

Emily

I am a student and heavy chested and its difficult. The laws of gravity take over with chest lifts and when I do shoulder shimmies momentum takes over and they swing on there own. The only way I can master it is strong upper back muscles and daily stretching.Its just a matter of repetition over and over to build up the right muscles to get it right. At least for me, this worked

Is the issue physical or psychological?

Thanks for the tips!

I'm pretty sure with my student the issue is physical. She is very very busty. This is also her first dance class ever so she hasn't had a chance to build her muscles yet.

Strengthen the back - that where the chest lifts come from (not that they are essential to the dance).

With shoulder shimmies - make sure she is doing a shoulder shimmy - articulating the shoulders - not a bust shimmy - twisting the torso. Not only will it look more classy it will do less damage.

I assume she is wearing a very supportive bra.

Also be aware if you teach a style where you dance with the arms (not everyone does) that the arms' movement across the torso is limited by the bumps.

I have a bosomy student and she does great chest lifts so I think it's a matter of building up the muscles and maybe the self-confidence.

Also, a good bra really, really helps, it's just so much more comfortable. People look for glamour when support is more important. So by "good bra" I don't mean "sexy bra"..l;,

Ironically, because you're comfortable you also look more gorgeous if that makes sense.

One problem I have noticed: a tendency by this dancer, who is very talented btw - she is sometimes a little round-shouldered and drops the chest on some moves and that might be related to her build, and/or self-confidence - mind/body image sort of work together.

So teaching her I try to instill confidence and that's really been a help I think, her posture has gotten way stronger and that in turn has had a positive effect on her whole attitude/dance.

Originally Posted by emilybberry

This is also her first dance class ever so she hasn't had a chance to build her muscles yet.

This is more of a problem than the bustiness. As Kashmir says, she needs to build up her back muscles. It'll be good for her in everyday life, as well as in her dancing life, and it will improve her posture.

I'm busty and I don't have problems with chest lifts, however, I do have a big strong back.

Azeeza

pull ups and pull downs are good for strengthening the back. she can do pull ups on an assisted machine if she has gym access, or with a doorway bar and putting her leg on a chair and pushing somewhat as an assist at home.
pull downs can also be done by attaching those resistance bands to something and pulling down, if she doesn't have access to gym machines.
if she is self conscious, having her focus on the "rib cage lift" (as well as the SHOULDER shimmy, as already mentioned) might help

I am currently a 34 DD, down from a 36H at one point... It has taken me YEARS to correct my posture. from age 16-22, bad posture (due to poor understanding of alignment and back health, big boobs & my first kid pregnancy/nursing issues) really screwed up my back. It looked like I was just kind of hunching shoulders, but there were some really serious alignment issues.

I could not strengthen my back properly and self correct until those alignment issues were on their way to being fixed!

Absolutely, make suggestions on how to strengthen the back, give her reminders on proper posture, but you might also suggest that she go see a professional- I have seen a chiropractor, a physical therapist, and done structural integration (Rolf method) because it used to literally hurt me more to try to force myself into good posture. I can't tell you how happy I am to be able to sit up straight without getting overly fatigued now. I can breathe properly too!

Good posture, strong upper back, supportive bra and personally I like a little more chest lift (via the back) than is generally prescribed.

Supportive bra *plus* a firm fitting crop top can be really good.

There are physiological issues but psychological ones too, and ones that cross over. Women with large breasts are generally encouraged to hide them, so shaking them around feels hugely transgressive. It's also physically uncomfortable without good support. Many women with large breasts have poor posture, especially if they got them early, due to lifelong hunching. So they may find it physically difficult to lift their chests as well as emotionally challenging.

As a busty student myself, I've had to learn that "less is more" for me. My shoulder shimmies have to be smaller to ensure my chest doesn't get out of control.
And everything everyone else has said about building back muscles.

I also find it's good to emphasize (to the class, not just her) opening the chest, not just lifting the chest, and keeping the upper arms held out away from the body. Some of us tend to hold our arms extra-close -- it's protective. I started unconsciously doing it after having been "accidentally" groped one too many times in crowds.

Aziza says "you have two eyes in your chest, and they should be wide open." Once you've got them used to this, the reminder is "open your eyes," which always gets a smile and helps people relax. Amel Tafsout says "Sunshine!" -- same idea. Both are very useful reminders for the whole class, so the busty girl doesn't feel singled out.

And not that anyone here would, I hope, but please never, ever say "ew, this isn't a good move for you" to anyone about anything. I got that about chest drops, ribcage circles, and shoulder shimmies from an early teacher who saw boobs as fat and somehow shameful and couldn't or wouldn't hide it. My execution wasn't the problem, nor was my bra: it was my body. Our bodies should never be the problem.

I've been busty my entire life, from a 105 lb teenager with 32DDD to a breast reduction that grew back, to my current senior citizen 38DDD.

As others have mentioned, suggest that she wear a very supportive underwire bra with well fitting chest/back band. Sports bras or soft cup bras with big boobs aren't going to cut it. You need to be able to engage the upper back and pecs to hoost the heavy girls up and if neutral is nice and lifted, anything above neutral looks good. When neutral is droopy, the best you can do is lift to level.

Zana's points about the open chest are well taken. For those of us big gals it is very easy to round shoulders and close the chest--partially because of gravity and partially in an effort to minimize the girls. Well perhaps if you are Heidi Montag it doesn't matter.

My chest lifts improved considerably when I paid attention to expanding my chest with breath rahter than raising and lowering with abdominal breathing. The expansion in iself lifts the bust so it gives a little boost to the other muscles doing the work.

Echoing what has been said here and adding emphasis on making sure that her shoulders are back and down. This will lift the chest automatically. it's hard to do a chest lift if your shoulders are rolled forward.

Think Queenly posture. Encourage your students to walk as if they own the room. Hard to do when you are hunched over.

{{{HUGS}}}

On queenly posture and all the other great suggestions in this thread - there's a scene in Carlos Saura's "Carmen" where the flamenco instructor tells her class,

"Your bosoms are the horns of the bull!"

This never fails to crack up my classes and I think it helps to instill a sense of pride and also people think about that and automatically adjust their posture.

As mentioned above - a woman's (or man's) body should NEVER be an issue with any move or aspect of the dance.

That said I think it's so easy to crush (or be crushed by) stupid social expectations about our looks/physiques. It's just a shame.

Body image but also aging are serious issues in our society and I'll bet we all deal with some aspect of this...c::

Originally Posted by Suzana

And not that anyone here would, I hope, but please never, ever say "ew, this isn't a good move for you" to anyone about anything. I got that about chest drops, ribcage circles, and shoulder shimmies from an early teacher who saw boobs as fat and somehow shameful and couldn't or wouldn't hide it. My execution wasn't the problem, nor was my bra: it was my body. Our bodies should never be the problem.

This, a thousand times!

I am busty, but I don't have trouble with chest lifts cause I have never been ashamed of the girls. I refer to the lifted chest as doing "bar boobs". Making them stand out a bit when out on the town. That usually gets a giggle.

Since she is totally new to the dance, it is probabley a matter of learning to use the muscles and getting them strong enough to do the job. God knows very few people pick up on bellyrolls the first go round. Same here. It might also be helpful (if you don't already do it) to talk about body acceptance to the whole class.

My boobs are ginormous and I actually find myself a little self conscious when I teach chest lifts, shoulder shimmy etc because the students invariably state "well that's easy for you!" as they automatically assume the move originates in the breast !!!! then I have to stress that it is all about back muscles and control. So I've learnt to drill the muscle movements slowly so they get the point and don't see a wobble show otherwise it can become a gigglefest. This mockery is also a great intro for the explanation that we should all respect any physical limitations in our bodies such as injuries or aesthetic limitation as in my case where I choose not to do fast shoulder shimmys in certain venues. Not saying you should mock your students but to be creative.
I've applied this approach to some students who were elderly beginners who were visibly uncomfortable with the idea of moving the chest around as it brought attention to the bust. I shied away from mentioning the chest muscles altogether and the focus on the back gave them more confidence for the move. These ladies were truly on the edge of their comfort zone and had run up against a phychological limitation.
Think I lost my point, oops...

Originally Posted by Elibelinde

On queenly posture and all the other great suggestions in this thread - there's a scene in Carlos Saura's "Carmen" where the flamenco instructor tells her class,

"Your bosoms are the horns of the bull!"

I saw this happen in a tango class as well, where our instructor (from Argentina) urged the ladies to proudly use "them" during the dance to "Challenge Heem!" ("Him" being our male dance partners - you might understand why I was not eager for my husband to attend these classes without me.)

On topic, I would love to know what bra the VERY busty "Joan" character wears in AMC's "Mad Men," and whether it is available to the public commercially (as opposed to custom-made). Though her character deals with retro-sexism, her physical bearing is one example of "Queenly [or authoritative?] posture," her bosom appears very well supported and whatever bra she's wearing helps create a lot of torso space and good separation that could be helpful in upper-body dance isolations.

-Devora

Originally Posted by Devora

On topic, I would love to know what bra the VERY busty "Joan" character wears in AMC's "Mad Men," and whether it is available to the public commercially (as opposed to custom-made). Though her character deals with retro-sexism, her physical bearing is one example of "Queenly [or authoritative?] posture," her bosom appears very well supported and whatever bra she's wearing helps create a lot of torso space and good separation that could be helpful in upper-body dance isolations.

-Devora

Oh, do tell! I want to know too! Anyone?

Here is where MAD MEN wardrobe get a lot of their foundation garments.

Girdles: Shapewear Panty Girdles, Corsets, Foundation Garments & Lingerie.

Bras specifically are from American Shapewear Products, Inc. :: Shapewear :: Bras

Have fun!

{{{HUGS}}}

ETA: In interviews, the actresses have all sworn by Spanks!

Originally Posted by emilybberry

Hello,

I just recently started teaching belly dance and I have a student in my class who is extremely busty. Busty to the point of having trouble with chest lifts.

I am very small chested myself, so I don't have the experience to give her any advice.

Has anyone ever helped a student with the same issue? Or are there any busty belly dancers out there who could give me some tips and hints about dancing with a larger chest?

Thanks for the help!

Emily

Good supportive bra?

Joan's silhouette looks very period and I gather the showrunners are very particular about things looking right for the time, so she's probably wearing a whirlpool-type bra and girdle, if not an all in one foundation garment under some dresses.

TahiraDancer, thank you so much for the info!

Zumarrad, I was wondering about those whirlpool bras also (similar to the bra later made famous by Madonna) - dare I say I specifically do recall them just going out of fashion as I was a young girl, and recall that my mother wore them - also that they were the basis for the rude and irreverent term "torpedo t_ts" because they were so pointy - Joan and most of the other ladies don't seem to have the really pointy silhouettes that are achieved with these bras. Maybe the artistic staff is avoiding them just a bit since they would pull too much focus visually from scenes where women would be wearing them.

back muscles exercises, posture

and i've had to have an eh, underwear talk with some bustier ladies. what they considered "supportive", turned out to be a very very old sportsbra, and well, to dance in they needed to go shopping for something better. costs money though.

Joan and most of the other ladies don't seem to have the really pointy silhouettes that are achieved with these bras. Maybe the artistic staff is avoiding them just a bit since they would pull too much focus visually from scenes where women would be wearing them.

They do in season one, check out Peggy's extremely pointy bosom.

One thing about Mad Men, they go for period *everything*. Period FRUIT. There's a famous story about how the showrunner came on set and made them buy different apples because the apples were too big and perfect looking. Apples weren't like that in the early 60s.

It's why the strippers are softbodied, the women's nails are pointy, the actresses are not allowed to diet stringently or work out stringently... the show pays meticulous attention to period. So bras will be period bras, no question. Maybe not all whirlpool but definitely early 60s-style bras.

As a 32F dancer I am very happy to see all the attention this topic has been given. I am also very short, at 5 feet my boobs take over my whole image sometimes, or so I think. Which brings me to the psychological issue brought up by Nisreen and others. when I was still a bit new to this dance i kind of refused to do chest lifts as my mother always said to avoid doing anything that would draw attention to my chest. However my first bellydance teacher Shayera just plainly and to the point said "It is a beautiful movement and very much part of this dance, so think about the muscles not the breasts" Somehow this worked, even though she did not say which muscles. As i continued to take to study dance and Hadia's training i came to figure out which muscles work for me. First I need to remember to bring shoulder blades down towards the hips and this i tell my students in every class, this opens the chest and leaves it free to isolate. As for the muscles, I use the upper abdominals and the lateralis, NOT the back muscles as much.
When the weight of the chest gets to be too much, i do one or many bodywawes as needed. My frame is small so I need the support of my whole abdominal muscle group to lift the chest.
As for the quality of the bra, sometimes wearing 2 bras works well too, specially a regular underwire bra under a sports bra. 4 straps distribute the weight better than just 2. And now days you can find a good bra which can be sexy too! but this is a recent addition to the market. Altering bras is a good idea too.
And lastly, since you are just starting to teach, you may consider looking around for educational opportunities, like Hadia's TT, yoga or pilates classes with an experienced teacher are great tools too. If we are going to stand in front of a group of people thinking that we are dance teachers, we need to have the anatomy background for doing so, think Safety. Asking ?'s in this forum is good way to start too.
Have a great time dancing!

Originally Posted by JDnRIA

As a busty student myself, I've had to learn that "less is more" for me. My shoulder shimmies have to be smaller to ensure my chest doesn't get out of control.
And everything everyone else has said about building back muscles.

I prefer a small shimmy with my big girls as well. My instructor wants a "bigger shimmy" and I don't like to because of all that motion. The midwest has enough issues mistaking belly dancers for sex workers or burlesque dancers, I don't intend to add to it. There are too many other options in belly dance besides shaking my breasts.

I believe I do a decent lift and drop with my ribcage, as well as a decent shoulder shimmy, but shaking the girls in a "bigger shoulder shimmy" is too much!

That being said, sometimes the music calls for a little bit :-)