Thread: Do you teach improv?

There is a thread on another forum and thought I would bring it here.

Do you teach improvisational skills, and technique in your classes?

Essentially this dance in Egypt is improvisation, no choreography, and I know that many people and students in the UK expect choreography and a dot by dot account of what to do next.

Improvisation is an unusal beast, quite complex to teach and I wondered how, if you teach it, how you go about teaching it?

Siouxsie

I try. I start in week two getting students to work in pairs (not a full group -too scary) taking turns to dance and follow. I also model by improvising and getting students to follow (obviously I limit what I do). Over weeks and months I keep slipping in short chances.

I tend to give limits to reduce stress and over thinking - for instance, pick two moves and dance for (say) 4 minutes. I often (but not always) use familiar music. Sometimes I put on something totally new and we thrash out what would go. If they are off the accepted musicality I nudge them back.

Of course I teach improv, that's core to how I perform and how I teach.

I wrote more about it on my site, you can find it via my profile.

I think it is hard to teach people to dance creatively and I get a lot of ticked off students who want to learn "choreography" but oh well...l;,..l;,..l;,

Originally Posted by kashmir

I try. I start in week two getting students to work in pairs (not a full group -too scary) taking turns to dance and follow. I also model by improvising and getting students to follow (obviously I limit what I do). Over weeks and months I keep slipping in short chances.

I tend to give limits to reduce stress and over thinking - for instance, pick two moves and dance for (say) 4 minutes. I often (but not always) use familiar music. Sometimes I put on something totally new and we thrash out what would go. If they are off the accepted musicality I nudge them back.

I do this sort of thing, once people have learned enough basics to want to try and do a solo the real work begins. I spend lots of my own time on serious students.

A lot of people though really just want exercise and many never get beyond the very basic levels so it's a little frustrating - I've also found that there are students who want to perform and students who don't and I've had to split my time accordingly. But I put "free dance" time into class right from the very beginning.

I figure if you only have one or two moves, well that's enough, let's dance!

Bhuz must have dozens of threads about in-class and at-home ideas for developing improv skills (and a few rants about teachers who throw students into the deep end of spontaneous performing and working with live music without proper preparation)...

http://www.bhuz.com/forum/student-ce...doesnt-do.html
http://www.bhuz.com/forum/student-ce...ov-my-own.html
http://www.bhuz.com/forum/student-ce...ro-phobia.html
http://www.bhuz.com/forum/student-ce...-pressure.html
http://www.bhuz.com/forum/student-ce...vs-improv.html
http://www.bhuz.com/forum/belly-danc...s-ah-hahs.html
http://www.bhuz.com/forum/belly-danc...v-dancing.html

all i teach is freestyle . i teach a list of steps....words ...to link up with sounds...a vocabulary of steps to follow the music with.this step sounds like that measure of music....etc.

Well duh. But! The problem I had was this:

I used to teach at a school that had a particular format, and (eventually) twice-yearly shows at which classes would perform choreographies. Like most dancers who came up through that school I learned to dance via choreo. Once we hit a higher level we would start to explore improv a bit more.

I wanted to incorporate more improv, but within the school format. Periodically I'd have a bit of free dance in classes, just so people could have a play, sometimes guided (try dancing to this using only round movements eg, see what happens), but I used to want to teach a block of improv as well, and so I wrote it and taught it and it was OK.

However, the problem was this. Students who'd been dancing for a while - the very ones who were ready to sink their teeth into improv - fell into two camps. The ones who came to class all the time. And the ones who came to class when there was a choreography to learn. Classes would typically spent a term largely on technique etc, then in the next term they'd move into a choreography.

The dancers who MOST needed that challenge and would moan about not being inspired or wanting something new etc, were the ones who tended not to come for the technique blocks. So they wouldn't come for improv either. They only wanted to learn new choreos to perform at shows. It was frustrating.

Now, 98 percent of these students had lives that trumped BD at all times anyway, and that has to be taken into account - childcare issues, money issues etc. And it seemed that their love of dancing involved being in a group and learning a dance together and performing it. Very few dancers felt ready to dance alone. Sad, but a fact.

Something that *did* work well for teaching students to risk improv, actually, was this. Some of my students had been to a workshop where they were asked to improvise and they said they'd all frozen, and looked jealously at the tribal dancers who immediately started improvising. And I said to them "but you do know what to do - we've talked about what goes where, how you can do a movement that follows what the music tells you, we've done exercises, you know lots of movements and how to put them together. You do it at home round the lounge. Those dancers weren't frightened of it, that's all." And then I took them to a Turkish restaurant that had dancers sometimes and music, and we all just got up after a couple of wines and danced. After that they were all "wow, we CAN do it, it's not as hard as we thought!" They just needed to stop thinking about a performance and have fun.

I teach improv in my musicality & expression class. Students in that class have had a year or more of technique training.

I try to give them something specific to work with each session. Usually we start by talking about which moves are percussive and which ones are smooth. Then we listen to some music.. raise your right hand if it sounds smooth, your left hand when what you're hearing sounds percussive to you. I reassure them that it's OK if they don't hear the music exactly as their classmates do, that's what makes it interesting for us to watch each other dance.

Then we move. A new-to-improv student might start out with just one or two smooth moves and one or two percussive moves. I'll have them dance to the same one minute or so of song over and over so they have a chance to get familiar with it.

I like this activity because it gives them confidence in their ability to match movement with music. That's just an example of the kind of structure we use for improv activities. I find they do MUCH better when given a particular task to focus on.

We spend a LOT of time in that class listening to music and talking about the differences in what we hear and how we interpret it and getting comfortable with the notion that there isn't one *right* step for each bit of music. Most of my students get so nervous about doing it *right,* they need my help to let go.

We sometimes dance a takseem with our eyes closed. Usually we dance all together, sometimes we dance for a partner who claps for us and makes eye contact (but with four or five pairs going at once).

Individuals improving for the rest of the group is always a voluntary activity, I never push that. We sometimes dance in a large circle and take turns going into the center of the circle.. but if you're in the center, you can get out any time by picking the next dancer.

Originally Posted by supercooper

There is a thread on another forum and thought I would bring it here.

Do you teach improvisational skills, and technique in your classes?

Essentially this dance in Egypt is improvisation, no choreography, and I know that many people and students in the UK expect choreography and a dot by dot account of what to do next.

Improvisation is an unusal beast, quite complex to teach and I wondered how, if you teach it, how you go about teaching it?

Siouxsie

FYI, formating all your initial posts in colors and different fonts makes it harder to read on some monitors

i like to end my own practice with improvising to something because it ends on a fun note (ok, being real: my drilling will generally get side tracked by a song that catches me and before i know it i'm out of time ^_~)
i try to incorporate the less chaotic version of that into my classes, i explain that i focus on improv because i want them to be able to express themselves, and start them from the beginning. at that point there's no reason to expect anything from yourself, and i have everyone dancing at the same time, so they aren't worried about being judged by their classmates. if students get stuck i'll dance along side them and give them a bouncing butt (after having spent a lot of time teaching technique) to follow only as long as it takes to get them moving and out of their freeze. this is all for a beginner's technique class so they improvise with the 4 moves that we learned that day, which helps it not be overwhelming. (not including review days. ^_~)

Zumarrad's comment sparked a memory and a possible solution borrowed from the tribal world. This came up in my SAIC classes and it really helped get people into the swing.

Since many people really don't want to dance alone, the so-called "tribal circle" can help get ease people into dancing.

I'm sure most of you know what I mean - people basically form a semi-circle, and the dancer on, say, the right end of the line moves into the center and improvises and the rest of the group dances behind her. Then she goes to the other end of the line and the next person moves into the center of the semi-circle, etc.

This way people are improvising, actually dancing, but they don't feel so on-the-spot or lonesome. It did seem to help break the ice and get people into the idea of going past the study of movement/technique and into the act of dancing.

Originally Posted by Elibelinde

people basically form a semi-circle, and the dancer on, say, the right end of the line moves into the center and improvises and the rest of the group dances behind her. Then she goes to the other end of the line and the next person moves into the center of the semi-circle, etc.

This way people are improvising, actually dancing, but they don't feel so on-the-spot or lonesome. It did seem to help break the ice and get people into the idea of going past the study of movement/technique and into the act of dancing.

When I first started teaching I used this. Personally I have no problems with it. But it can be extremely stressful to some people. I came out one night to find a student sitting in her car in tears. I later discovered that many people hated this and it was the main reason they never came back to class. Needless to say I don't do it any more.

Interestingly enough, the circle concept that Kashmir talks about seemed to work really *well* in the classes I had, but it was really good knowing of her experiences so that I could look out for them. (We both started out, I think, doing it via teaching for the same person). What was perhaps different was that the circle would be made, I'd start and get the dancer on my left to start moving round the circle when I was about a quarter of the way around. And so on. Rather than going into the middle, the goal in this exercise was to go round, do a move or many moves, as you wished, in front of each classmate and they'd do it back.

In the classes I taught, I frequently had trouble getting them to STOP - which was great! - but I don't think it had anything to do with me personally. I do wonder if it was because it was allowed to get all chaotic with everyone dancing pretty much at the same time, eventually, and they felt less lonely or something. Either that or the types of women were different.

Because I can still remember that class when *I* did it, and it was scary and then liberating. I can't remember any details but I *do*remember the feelings!

I reckon the anxiety attached would get *worse* when people had been dancing longer. In those first classes a lot of them were just so excited.

variation on the circle theme- in my beginning classes, we go around the circle & each person chooses a move we have learned that session- great for review- I tell them it helps me know they've internalized at least *one* move from everything I throw at them! It also helps them think ahead a little & hold a potential movement in their brain as they are dancing, but the biggest thing we do in this part of the lesson is work on transitions. I have found that one of the obstacles to *good* improv is simply knowing how to get from one move to the next (and knowing that you know how to do it!) so we make a point of saying "what's your move, okay great, let's think about how to get from dancer Y's move to yours."

Had a totally great summer with a student doing private lessons we took one piece of music and really dissected it- mapped it out, counted all the rhythms, talked about what style it was, who wrote it, when, what maqams were used, etc so they really had an understanding for the music- then we used the 'musical map' to plan our improv- so in this section we are going to travel, in this section, pick 3-4 moves, in this section move towards this part of the stage, in this section acknowledge the invisible singer, etc.

I have never seen my students so fluid & confident- it has been amazing! I will be making time to do this with the whole class this winter & I am really excited to be doing more than skimming by improv & musical analysis.

Originally Posted by Lara L

in this section acknowledge the invisible singer

i want to see the LOL cat for this ^_^

Originally Posted by kashmir

When I first started teaching I used this. Personally I have no problems with it. But it can be extremely stressful to some people. I came out one night to find a student sitting in her car in tears. I later discovered that many people hated this and it was the main reason they never came back to class. Needless to say I don't do it any more.

even after i'd been performing for a few months and improvising for years, when my teacher pulled this format out and i had to dance in front of her and my class mates i felt like i was going to throw up. part of it was the zills, part of it was expecting a lot of myself, but it was so much more stressful than when we all dance at the same time.
i have to say that when i was taking ITS i dreaded having to lead. this was partly due to the fact that not a single combo was ever explained and i was only told what 2 cues were, the rest i had to figure out from watching the bouncing butt who wouldn't even tell me what the d@mn cues were when i asked. but there's also pressure because if im improvising on my own and i screw up, oh well, that's embarrassing for me. but if i screw up leading tribal improv i'm gonna take everyone down with me. AAAH!!! ..c::..cr.:

Originally Posted by zumarrad

I do wonder if it was because it was allowed to get all chaotic with everyone dancing pretty much at the same time, eventually, and they felt less lonely or something.

I think that's a factor for sure--as a student, in the one class I've taken where improv was the focus, the instructor would put on music and basically tell us all to go (after technique and discussion, of course--there was class structure around the improv bits). It was truly chaotic, with dancers all over the place, and you had to keep an eye out for the occasional collision, but you knew that nobody was particularly watching you (except the instructor) and that everybody was equally jumping right in and giving it their all.

Originally Posted by raqFariha

i want to see the LOL cat for this ^_^


even after i'd been performing for a few months and improvising for years, when my teacher pulled this format out and i had to dance in front of her and my class mates i felt like i was going to throw up. part of it was the zills, part of it was expecting a lot of myself, but it was so much more stressful than when we all dance at the same time.
i have to say that when i was taking ITS i dreaded having to lead. this was partly due to the fact that not a single combo was ever explained and i was only told what 2 cues were, the rest i had to figure out from watching the bouncing butt who wouldn't even tell me what the d@mn cues were when i asked. but there's also pressure because if im improvising on my own and i screw up, oh well, that's embarrassing for me. but if i screw up leading tribal improv i'm gonna take everyone down with me. AAAH!!! ..c::..cr.:

Hah. I still feel like I am gonna throw up half the time..cr.:..l;,..l;,

Well I think the issue of getting people relaxed is serious though.

Maybe that's part of the whole teaching business let alone teaching improv?

I'd be very curious to learn how some of you deal with fear, and also the fact that some students get so intimidated either by you, by the process of learning or by other students they don't continue.

In my classes, I try to teach *some* choreography (because the students want to learn something they can perform as an ensemble) and *some* improvisation. Ie, in the same 7-week session I try to do both in the same one-hour class, every week.

The purpose of the choreography is to help the students learn how I feel the music, how I recommend interpreting a given song. And it helps them learn specific arm positions to use with different moves, specific zill patterns to play, etc.

The purpose of the improvisation is to help them learn to "feel" the music and explore how they would interpret it in their own way.

I think both have value. And by teaching a little of each in every class, I don't have anyone saying, "Oh, they're doing improv this quarter, I think I'll skip and wait for the next session."

I think the follow the leader aspect of any dance training is relevant and important. The next step to say or leave the dancers with themselves and the music is a significant moment in their dance training, for sure.

You are right about the feel, and feeling of the music and I would say the feeling of themselves as the music or physically inhabiting it. It is quite a leap of faith and a development of understanding Egyptian or Middle Eastern music, when it is all about the music and song.

I also find myself instructing students to think about design, design for an audeince, design for interest and compositional techniques. I think it can get blurry and mushy, students' and dancers' initial attempts at improv.

I remember mine vividly.

And giving them in a way "choreographic" technique, to think and see their dance as something to be read or invited into as an audience member or even from peer to peer dancers, is an important "abstracting" moment in class.

When I demonstrate, there is usually that frustrating sense in the class of how can I do it like that. I then provide my thoughts, planning and mapping of the moment. It makes sense and then they try again, usually with great success.

Improvisation is not without a plan and of course a general mapping of the musical-scape you are dancing to.

Siouxsie

Originally Posted by Lara L

but the biggest thing we do in this part of the lesson is work on transitions. I have found that one of the obstacles to *good* improv is simply knowing how to get from one move to the next (and knowing that you know how to do it!) so we make a point of saying "what's your move, okay great, let's think about how to get from dancer Y's move to yours."

.

I'm taking this to class tomorrow, for the intermediates. thanks!!!!!
We practice w/ the whole group(10 students) improv at a time, so they aren't being stared at. We also do the slower songs w/ a strong beat!!!! to improv w/ zills. For the beginner class--- I teach simple choreo of drum, fast combo, and veil-----one of these for each session of the class. I have the beginners split the class in half and play w/ the song after we have done "follow the bouncing butt" ---haven't done that for the drum, but do it for fast and veil. A more American sounding song got them pretty inspired this week "Lawrence of Arabia" by John Bilezikjian---they did great veil stuff for being total beginners.

I teach improv, starting from the beginner level.

First I start with improv using the veil and encourage the student to feel what the music is telling them in regards to movements and also in regards to facial expression.

My beginner students usually do a great job. Sometimes I tell them that I will follow what they do and sometimes I act as an audience. If they appear to be too nervous then I jump back in and continue to lead the class, with the goal being for them to do a little more each time.
I think improv is a great technique, because you will not always have time to come up with a choreography, although choreography would be preferred and dancers such as Dina and Randa use choreography when performing with a little ad lib.