Thread: Turned Out Foot?

I have a question please. Recently I have had a couple of students come to class who have had a great deal of classical dance experience...that is, ballet and jazz, etc. Last night while I was demonstrating hip lifts and drops, I noticed that one of the students has the pronounced, turned out, pointed foot that I understand is so important in ballet. It was a lovely, but I felt like the turn out would restrict her hip work. Since then, I have studied the position of that forward foot while the belly dancer is doing hip work and it seems it should be simply in releve' and positioned either forward or only slightly turned out. For kicks, the foot is pretty if pointed and slightly turned out, but for standing hip work, it seems to me the foot should'nt be pointed and turned out, but rather forward or only slightly turned out and in releve'. What are your thoughts? Thanks!

every body is different, & depending on pelvis shape & just how close she is keeping her feet, a little bit of turn out might be proper hip rotation. I seriously tweaked my knee (& look knock kneed to boot) when told to keep my feet exactly straight ahead & super close together, but a full ballet first position should not be necessary! I don't think it would hinder hip movement, but I think it would look darn funny (why yes, I did just stand up at my computer and try shimmies & hip work in ballet first position ) near impossible to do a straightleg shimmy from that position & yeah, just looks weird.

I use turn out for low arabesque, certain walking steps & when I have one leg extended, but that's about it.

It may be hard getting her to transition, and you may need to remind her to keep her feet slightly farther apart to compensate. Good luck to both of you!

i come fro 12 years of ballet...being turned out has helped...and i teach the 5 foot postions for proper balance..4th and 5th are important..there are dance basics that are there for all forms of dance. 5 positions , spotting, gentle bend of knees for brakes...all forms use.

btw, your students feet sound beautiful!

You can measure turnout from the HIP by looking at the direction the knee is facing. If the hip is not turned out, the knee should be facing forward, or pointed very very slightly to the outside of the midline of the body.

Turnout from the FOOT is a different animal. We used to call that look a "winged" foot and no matter how many health care professionals tell you it's unhealthy and unstable, it was all the rage in the 80s and 90s. The turnout is actually coming from the ankle joint and it's typically 12-15 degrees. After a few years of working this way, the ankle joint naturally develops this greater range of rotation.

Is it stable and healthy to have a winged foot? No, but .... In a non-weighted position (like an Arabesque or resting on demi-pointe) it shouldn't pose a problem. However, when the foot is weighted, you need to encourage your students to keep the knee in line with either the big toe or the space in between the big and second toes.

Turnout from the foot itself (or the ankle joint) isn't going to restrict mobility in the hips, but it does not create a very stable position for the weight of the body to rest on.

Turnout from the hip can be discouraged by advising your students to work from parallel position. For hip drops, I often think of actually turning the hip IN, so the legs cross slightly, hiding the pelvic region. Looks a little more cutesy and coy that way.

If you watch Egyptian dancers do what I call beledi hip drops (in which the drop on count 3 has the foot release), many times they have some turnout (coming from the hip joint) in the unweighted leg (e.g. the hip that is dropping) when the foot is released.

I think it looks good, and I teach it as a more advanced (and optional) point of polish for the movement.

Originally Posted by zamora

i come fro 12 years of ballet...being turned out has helped...and i teach the 5 foot postions for proper balance..4th and 5th are important..there are dance basics that are there for all forms of dance. 5 positions , spotting, gentle bend of knees for brakes...all forms use.

Actually, no. You do not need ballet positions (unless you do a lot of Reda based work) Ballet basics are not the same as belly dance basics. And you certainly don't need - or want - spotting in belly dance. The Middle Eastern way is loss of focus or restricted focus.

My feet are slightly turned out because that's how my legs are attached. I tend to turn out my supporting leg quite a bit (by which I mean 45 degrees) for balance and security. It does not impede my hip movement. YMMV.

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Originally Posted by hourglassbellydance

Last night while I was demonstrating hip lifts and drops, I noticed that one of the students has the pronounced, turned out, pointed foot that I understand is so important in ballet. It was a lovely, but I felt like the turn out would restrict her hip work. Since then, I have studied the position of that forward foot while the belly dancer is doing hip work and it seems it should be simply in releve' and positioned either forward or only slightly turned out. For kicks, the foot is pretty if pointed and slightly turned out, but for standing hip work, it seems to me the foot should'nt be pointed and turned out, but rather forward or only slightly turned out and in releve'.

If it is the foot then I'd be concerned. If it was the hip less so. Some people like a turned out look - personally I don't. However, if you do a lot of fast direction changes to turns a little turnout (from the hip) is helpful.

If the leg naturally sits in turn out it would suggest either their training has ended up giving them a muscular imbalance or their hip joints naturally have more outward than inward rotation. If possible they should work on balancing the rotators. In the log term a neutral position works best for normal walking (which they do more often than dancing I'd assume)

And yes, the foot should not be pointed (according to Egyptian training at least) but placed on the ball ready to take weight.

As a former bun head, I have to say , it is difficult to NOT turn out and point your toe. That having been said, with gentle reminders, one does tend to adjust as time goes on. For what I was taught was called basic Egyptian - non-supportive leg in front with ball of foot on the floor and knee bent - a little turn out works. I was also taught a stylistic thing for standing hip work with a non-supportive leg where you bring both legs in together, non-supportive knee is bent and the foot is off to the side, pointed. That foot takes weight as needed.

It's really lovely, very old school and also difficult for most people.

{{{HUGS}}}

Originally Posted by tahiradancer

As a former bun head, I have to say , it is difficult to NOT turn out and point your toe. That having been said, with gentle reminders, one does tend to adjust as time goes on. For what I was taught was called basic Egyptian - non-supportive leg in front with ball of foot on the floor and knee bent - a little turn out works. I was also taught a stylistic thing for standing hip work with a non-supportive leg where you bring both legs in together, non-supportive knee is bent and the foot is off to the side, pointed. That foot takes weight as needed.

It's really lovely, very old school and also difficult for most people.

{{{HUGS}}}

That does work really well though! Also, that way the free leg is totally safe from any torque from twisting moves - plus you can shift weight and travel on it -

..g.: