Thread: Examples of Turkish style

My question could be seen somewhat in connection with the Rethinking How We Teach Belly Dance thread that Shira started. I like to show students additional ways of learning and gathering information. It is not something I expect of them, but I like to know that they have been exposed to possibilities.

As one of the tools, at quite the beginning of the classes I compile a small list of youtube clips showing them the diverse face of our dance. The last time I did that it was very Egyptian-based. This time I'd also like to include American Oriental and Turkish. Of the former I have a pretty good idea (thank you ladies and gentelmen of Bhuz! ). But with the latter I have great difficulties - I know very little of Turkish style and can't imagine who would be the best examples.

Can you help me out and direct me to good examples of Turkish style?

You're welcome to borrow some of the examples I used to illustrate Turkish style:

Belly Dance Stuff: Styles -- Turkish Oriental

I also wrote a styles guideline for my students and put together a youtube playlist for each style, you might find a useful reference:

Different Styles of Oriental Dance by Shems

My youtube playlist for Turkish Style:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=815BDB4EFFC72173]YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.[/ame]

YouTube - SamiraShuruk's Channel

This is on a whole Turkish playlist on my youtube channel (SamiraShuruk all one word). Her Romani is lovely. My Turkish playlist is heavily Didem, but also Nesrin, Tulay and more. Hope that helps!

Edited to add- oh, strange. The youtube doesn't show up here- well- the link goes directly to a Turkish dancer in blue, being carried in on a palinquin.

Also check out this thread:

http://www.bhuz.com/forum/belly-danc...e-dancers.html

Remember, the majority of Turkish dancers today in Turkey aren't dancing Turkish style. They are dancing Egyptian style.

Wow, thanks everyone! That is pretty much a full weekend-worth of clips to watch. .w.:..l;, I'll let you know which one I will choose to show my students.

Spent the last days going through the clips... realised how little I know of Turkish dancing. And decided to share this clip of Dilek as the taster with my students.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r46j_aTMAQ]YouTube - Dilek, San Diego Turkish Belly Dancer Las Vegas Belly Dance Intensive Festival show[/ame]

Once more, thanks a lot for your help, ladies!

oh thanks for sharing my clips...this is a Turkish pop song by my fav singer Ebru Gundes, I like her cuz she uses "arabesque" style what we call in Turkey, which is between pop but heavily on Arabic style of music and instruments used more in Arabic style of music. So that makes it more danceable...which is very very very common in Turkey.
It is true that in Turkey more Arabic music but not necessarily Egyptian also Lebeanse, whoever brings the style of music to Turkey and remixes with Turkish tunes and add some techno to it, and sell in the market for groups like Mezdeke or others to use for their shows.....so unfortunately real Turkish oriyantal music recording is so low in Turkey (orchestra based) we use a lot of Arabesque style...I rather use that than remix version of Egyptian or Lebanese music.
Some of my clips are more modern and others most definetely Romani and I have some news ones are a lot more Authentic which are not on the net yet.
I also just started teaching workshop with Turkish Oriyantal where I add few different subjects or just one choreography with zills where I use either more Arabesque music or Pop music.

Most of us working from say the -60's to late 80's, early -90's when the clubs basically expired were exposed to many Turkish dancers. So we picked up a lot of their style and the music in the clubs was often a blend - sometimes for example I had a straight up Arabian band but often it was an international group or a Greek group that included Roma musicians. Note these musicians were GOOD, they could play a wide range of ME music and sing in several languages.

A typical routine would include an Arabian entrance piece, a slow bolero and/or a slow Turkish 7/8 or 8/8, another fast piece, could be Turkish, Armenian or Arabic; blam hit the deck and do floor work, often accompanied by a singer; then get up hopefully not getting strangled in skirt, do drum solo and if still alive finish with 9/8 kashlimar, lots of hops and skirt work and of course the whole time the zills were playing.

I think people may not realize how much Turkish music influenced what we think of as Arabian music and also, vice versa - there's a whole subset of Turkish music called "Arabesque," and as Norma points out you see that more now, don't see so many real Turkish style dancers.

I don't know why not. The style is wonderful, it is complicated, challenging, often very fast and dramatic.

Also I don't know what is wrong with showcasing various musical styles and the dances that flow from within the music - obviously how we move is going to be dictated by the music. So a song which is Turkish may demand different body language than one in the Arabian style although the writhing clarinet style can be very fluid and sinuous. Plus there are a lot of complicated rhythms.

Sadly, there was some contempt for the Turkish style even back in the day. This was coming mostly from American dancers oddly enough - not from other ME or Rom women who, like the Turkish women I worked with exhibited a broad range of styles themselves. Plus I never felt pressure from ME customers to change my style - also - stylistically we were often working in BIG clubs and had to telegraph movement WAY to the back so the Turkish style worked well for that.

I worked with some Turkish dancers who had a real "circus pony" style and others who were very smooth and snaky and the thing is, the way the routines were designed it gave the dancers a wide range of music so you could go from hoppy to snaky to shimmies and layered vibrations, through a whole range of emotion, which is good because the sets were long and you didn't want the audience to fall asleep...l;,

Originally Posted by turkishdancer

oh thanks for sharing my clips...this is a Turkish pop song by my fav singer Ebru Gundes, I like her cuz she uses "arabesque" style what we call in Turkey, which is between pop but heavily on Arabic style of music and instruments used more in Arabic style of music. So that makes it more danceable...which is very very very common in Turkey.
It is true that in Turkey more Arabic music but not necessarily Egyptian also Lebeanse, whoever brings the style of music to Turkey and remixes with Turkish tunes and add some techno to it, and sell in the market for groups like Mezdeke or others to use for their shows.....so unfortunately real Turkish oriyantal music recording is so low in Turkey (orchestra based) we use a lot of Arabesque style...I rather use that than remix version of Egyptian or Lebanese music.
Some of my clips are more modern and others most definetely Romani and I have some news ones are a lot more Authentic which are not on the net yet.
I also just started teaching workshop with Turkish Oriyantal where I add few different subjects or just one choreography with zills where I use either more Arabesque music or Pop music.

Oh I love Ebru Gundes!!! Awesome - have big collection of Turkish music - it is incredibly rich and highly varied.

Originally Posted by turkishdancer

oh thanks for sharing my clips...this is a Turkish pop song by my fav singer Ebru Gundes, I like her cuz she uses "arabesque" style what we call in Turkey, which is between pop but heavily on Arabic style of music and instruments used more in Arabic style of music.

Dilek, I'm curious. I got this from Nedim Karakayali's article on arabesk music:
Despite its huge popularity, arabesk is strongly opposed by the Turkish cultural elite, who see it as a sign of cultural decadence. In fact, the term arabesk was originally derogatory. Since the early 1970s, arabesk has remained at the center of heated controversy, which the ethnomusicologist Martin Stokes (1992) has called the "arabesk debate."

I've ordered Stokes' book, but in brief, can you address why arabesk music is viewed this way? Karakayali cites other sources mentioning the trans-sexuality of the artists. Is that the significant issue?

Originally Posted by Elibelinde

Most of us working from say the -60's to late 80's, early -90's when the clubs basically expired were exposed to many Turkish dancers. So we picked up a lot of their style and the music in the clubs was often a blend - sometimes for example I had a straight up Arabian band but often it was an international group or a Greek group that included Roma musicians. Note these musicians were GOOD, they could play a wide range of ME music and sing in several languages.

A typical routine would include an Arabian entrance piece, a slow bolero and/or a slow Turkish 7/8 or 8/8, another fast piece, could be Turkish, Armenian or Arabic; blam hit the deck and do floor work, often accompanied by a singer; then get up hopefully not getting strangled in skirt, do drum solo and if still alive finish with 9/8 kashlimar, lots of hops and skirt work and of course the whole time the zills were playing.

I think people may not realize how much Turkish music influenced what we think of as Arabian music and also, vice versa - there's a whole subset of Turkish music called "Arabesque," and as Norma points out you see that more now, don't see so many real Turkish style dancers.

I don't know why not. The style is wonderful, it is complicated, challenging, often very fast and dramatic.

Also I don't know what is wrong with showcasing various musical styles and the dances that flow from within the music - obviously how we move is going to be dictated by the music. So a song which is Turkish may demand different body language than one in the Arabian style although the writhing clarinet style can be very fluid and sinuous. Plus there are a lot of complicated rhythms.

Sadly, there was some contempt for the Turkish style even back in the day. This was coming mostly from American dancers oddly enough - not from other ME or Rom women who, like the Turkish women I worked with exhibited a broad range of styles themselves. Plus I never felt pressure from ME customers to change my style - also - stylistically we were often working in BIG clubs and had to telegraph movement WAY to the back so the Turkish style worked well for that.

I worked with some Turkish dancers who had a real "circus pony" style and others who were very smooth and snaky and the thing is, the way the routines were designed it gave the dancers a wide range of music so you could go from hoppy to snaky to shimmies and layered vibrations, through a whole range of emotion, which is good because the sets were long and you didn't want the audience to fall asleep...l;,

Yep. That is basically how it was. It was a blend of cultures to make one unique styling. That is one reason why the dancers were so great back then. Each dancer could dance to "everything" because the sets were very long. Anywhere from 30-60 minutes.

Originally Posted by aziyade

Dilek, I'm curious. I got this from Nedim Karakayali's article on arabesk music:
Despite its huge popularity, arabesk is strongly opposed by the Turkish cultural elite, who see it as a sign of cultural decadence. In fact, the term arabesk was originally derogatory. Since the early 1970s, arabesk has remained at the center of heated controversy, which the ethnomusicologist Martin Stokes (1992) has called the "arabesk debate."

I've ordered Stokes' book, but in brief, can you address why arabesk music is viewed this way? Karakayali cites other sources mentioning the trans-sexuality of the artists. Is that the significant issue?

I had to google Karakayali - and without knowing too much about the subject matter, I would take into account that his work is in the social sciences, not in the arts. The quote explicitly mentions the cultural elite, in contrast to popular culture, which makes me hypothesize that it is probably more of an issue that is discussed in the equivalent of the New York Times Arts pages, and of less interest to the crowds that watch soccer games.

As for the sexuality issue, do you have the book Music and Gender by Magrini? It seems like it's your kinda book, and it has an article on that topic, discussing Zeki Muren's gender ambiguity, which may shed some light on that issue.

Originally Posted by aziyade

Dilek, I'm curious. I got this from Nedim Karakayali's article on arabesk music:
Despite its huge popularity, arabesk is strongly opposed by the Turkish cultural elite, who see it as a sign of cultural decadence. In fact, the term arabesk was originally derogatory. Since the early 1970s, arabesk has remained at the center of heated controversy, which the ethnomusicologist Martin Stokes (1992) has called the "arabesk debate."

I've ordered Stokes' book, but in brief, can you address why arabesk music is viewed this way? Karakayali cites other sources mentioning the trans-sexuality of the artists. Is that the significant issue?

delayed response:
I know arabesk music is not well respected or accepted by "elite" class of people cause it is mostly sang by Eastern singers that are low in education and these type of songs are closer to Middle East where Turkey is trying to be more Western, so regional and class diferentation cause this issue.