Thread: re-thinking how we introduce performance

Inspired by Shira's thread on teaching, I was wondering how long teachers engage studeuntes before allowing them to join in class performances?

I have been to haflahs were I have met students who have only been attending classes a matter of weeks and have joined class performances at Haflahs.

What is the usual protocol for you as a teacher?

Also, how long was it before you performed as a student with your class group or did a solo?

For me, I think it was a matter of weeks as I remember joining a class who were preparing for an event which involved the entire group.

Generally my students don't perform until they reach level 2, so somewhere between 6 months and a year they may begin learning the choreography that they'll perform with their group at the student show or studio party (hafla).

Three months to learn the choreo & polish it for performance, so generally the soonest anyone in my program would be performing is 9 months. They wouldn't typically be doing a solo until 1-3 years minimum. (depending on the student and the venue)

Once in a blue moon I have a bunch of Level 1 students who express an interest in performing in a student show. Usually I don't mention performing to them, but if A) They ask me and B) there are enough of them interested to from a group, then I've allowed it in the past. It turned out to be fun and they did a good job. These would be students at around the 6 months mark.

I didn't perform until I had been in classes consistently for about two years. I did a solo at a student hafla.

My students can perform at a free student recital at the dance studio whenever they feel they are ready. I don't encourage my regular students to perform otherwise (I only teach beginner and intermediates, the majority of whom are not ready to take the stage).

I think I danced for about 6 months before doing a group student recital myself, and was dancing hard for 3 years before tackling my first showcase solo (which was to live music).

I think as far as class performances at haflas or student recitals, it shouldn't be a matter of how long the student has been with the class, but whether or not the student can learn the choreography and perform it up to par with the rest of the class.

I agree with Yame about student recitals and haflas. This:

Originally Posted by yameyameyame

I think as far as class performances at haflas or student recitals, it shouldn't be a matter of how long the student has been with the class, but whether or not the student can learn the choreography and perform it up to par with the rest of the class.

Most of my students are dancing for at least a year before they perform a solo at a recital or hafla. I think I performed my first solo at about 6 to 9 months, but I was totally crazy about the dance. I don't get very many students like that.

Most don't stay with me long enough to get to the paid performance/advanced level. So the group only does community shows at the most public level of performance.

My friend (Haven) and I do all the paid performances. Either students don't want to put the time into the dance, the money into costumes, or both.

Thanks, that is interesting.

In the UK, many of our classes are in rural areas and even classes in cities often only have 'one size fits all' class.

the reason for this is usually due to numbers and new people have to join in with whatever the class it doing at that time.

I also think there is an issue where teachers do not like to offend anyone by excluding them.

My students can join the student recital at the end of each semester (= 15 classes). So far I haven't had requests for solo performances.

Overall my students haven't been keen on performing or doing a solo, they like to be out there as a group.

I have a friend who encourages all her students to perform in shows she produces, but they don't necessarily perform to an entire song. The beginners may come out and do something simple for 16 measures or so, then stand to the side while the next level up comes out and dances for a while, followed by her performing groups. Then at the end, they may get a couple of more measures and everyone strikes a pose. She is very creative with staging so it always looks nice, and she says it helps her class retention.

Edited to add: these would be stage shows where the audience has paid to attend, and the show lineup is strongly slanted towards professional-quality performers.

Originally Posted by nasila

My students can perform at a free student recital at the dance studio whenever they feel they are ready. I don't encourage my regular students to perform otherwise

Same here. My new plan (in conjunction with Bluegrass Bellydance) is to host an annual student showcase in the fall, inviting the BgBd students to perform -- and they in turn, host a student showcase in the spring, inviting my students to perform. So each class gets 2 performance opportunities a year. I think that's plenty for beginning levels.

My beginning level one students performing in next month's showcase have about 3-4 months experience. The choreography is very basic but I'm pleased that they have not only learned it, but are actually DANCING it (with facial expression and everything).

Level one students NORMALLY do not perform for the general public, but in the past I've taught a simple Saudi dance and they've done that at a cultural festival.

i danced at an open mic night when i had NO IDEA wtf i was doing (a few months of DVDs), and i had no idea that i had no idea,f::. after i realized it i wanted to just take classes and for a while i did just that, but then got suckered into performing with my tribal teacher and classmates at a restaurant for falafel ("you mean you want ME to perform? you think im ready? well, you're the teacher" T_T..c::)
some time after that my other teacher- who i have much more respect for (read, still taking class from) and who's judgement and perception i trust much more, encouraged me to dance at a new restaurant, last year this started me dancing for pay.
i love getting up and making people smile. i wont lie, i like the attention too. (i especially like making the kids smile and their parents all grateful ^_^) but there are those cycles of "im not good enough" doubt, taking things too personally, and all that..cr.:. which i'm looking at thinking that i would have been much better equipped to handle if i'd waited to perform. i feel that if i hadn't gotten on stage too soon the way i did i would have had a chance to develop the confidence and security with my skill to let things roll off a little easier. im sure i'd still have doubts, but i think performing too soon has made the rollercoaster a bit steeper and more extreme than it needed to be. i wish my teachers had at the time encouraged me to wait and develop instead of encouraging me to perform, but i am an odd ball.

I suppose in terms of re-thinking how we introduce performance to students,

Most student groups I know in the UK are very public in their performances and because they do it for free.. there are many.

The performance is usually a medley of very basic choreographies and not always done particularly well or a good representation of ME dance.

What is it like in your area?

The performance is usually a medley of very basic choreographies and not always done particularly well or a good representation of ME dance.

I have to agree. I think there is a lot of "belly dance" here that is a social fun pastime with dressing up and as soon as you get the basics and want to join, you're in. Nothing wrong with getting together and having fun, but a lot of it seems to me to be genre all of its own, and I wonder what message is going out when some groups perform to the general public as a belly dance troupe rather than as X's student class.

I'm not surprised if the image of belly dance here is either faintly comical funsters at the local fete or sexee pussycat dolls-alikes in bedlah, with the actual dance not getting much of a look in.

Over the 13 years I've been teaching, I've experimented with a variety of ideas on "rules" for students to perform. Here's what I've arrived at....

In my very-beginner Level 1 class, I teach a simple choreography. If I think my students are up to the challenge, I'll arrange a private, casual recital at the end of the 7-week class, with the only invitees being people the students themselves invite to see them dance. This could be as simple as having the invitees sit on the floor of the studio, and the students might wear the same exercise attire that they normally wear to class. Or, they might choose to wear skirts instead of their yoga pants, but it's still very, very casual.

For something more public (nursing home, city festival, etc), the students need to "earn the right" to perform. By that, I mean that only the people who meet my criteria are permitted to be in the performance. First, they must master the choreography. That means not only completing the 7-week session in which it is taught (with a good attendance record), but also practicing outside of class. I usually have 2-3 rehearsals outside of class prior to the performance, with a requirement that 2 are mandatory. I don't make them pay for the rehearsals. We use those to go over entrance & exit, formation, and polishing technique. For these, I offer loaner costumes (L Rose dresses) to the students to make the look even more polished.

After someone has performed in group pieces enough times to make me feel they have sufficient stage presence and comfort to do a solo, I'll give them a solo opportunity. Usually, for their first solo, I'll ask them to choose one of my choreographies that they have learned in class. After that, I offer an opportunity to choreograph or improvise their own, but I establish some requirements. For example, I require Middle Eastern music, and I require that they perform it for me at one of our rehearsals so I can approve it before I let them perform it publicly.

I was a bit puzzled one time when a student who had attended one of my 7-week sessions (and therefore was added to my mailing list) replied to my mailer about the upcoming new session saying she didn't want to attend the session, but wanted to perform a solo in the show I was planning at the end. It seems that she didn't want to take classes, she just wanted to perform. Um, that would be a "no".

Originally Posted by *Shira*

After someone has performed in group pieces enough times to make me feel they have sufficient stage presence and comfort to do a solo, I'll give them a solo opportunity. Usually, for their first solo, I'll ask them to choose one of my choreographies that they have learned in class. After that, I offer an opportunity to choreograph or improvise their own, but I establish some requirements. For example, I require Middle Eastern music, and I require that they perform it for me at one of our rehearsals so I can approve it before I let them perform it publicly.

At what point do you assume that a student has achieved enough proficiency that they do not need to be pre-screened? Events requiring full dress rehearsals obviously would be an exception, but at some point, a student needs to feel that their teacher has enough confidence in their development and judgment that they don't require pre-screening any longer. Is this just for a first solo, or does it continue for some number of subsequent performances?

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

At what point do you assume that a student has achieved enough proficiency that they do not need to be pre-screened? Events requiring full dress rehearsals obviously would be an exception, but at some point, a student needs to feel that their teacher has enough confidence in their development and judgment that they don't require pre-screening any longer. Is this just for a first solo, or does it continue for some number of subsequent performances?

It varies by the person. I see what they look like in class when we do improvisation exercises. I see what their personality is like - ie, do they seem to be trying to learn the classroom lessons properly, or do they seem to have left their brain at home when they come to class? I think about what their most recent choreography effort looked like and how much input it may have needed from me - or perhaps how little. Also, sometimes the students WANT me to take a look at a new piece before they perform it publicly, even if I was intending to tell them I trusted their judgment.

But yes, it's conceivable that if someone's first solo effort needed only minor input from me, then I'd probably not feel the need to screen follow-on efforts. I'd probably give them the choice - ie, make myself available if they want to run it by me. Or, I might want to screen something they're planning to perform at a major event, but not screen something for a smaller, more casual event. It all depends.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

At what point do you assume that a student has achieved enough proficiency that they do not need to be pre-screened?

I have learned to pre-screen everything. I also generally do it in my own time (not paid) because I think it is important.

I dont do things on a large scale so this sort of thing is managable for me. It is as much about giving support as anything else.

I hold an annual showcase for teachers and students in my area, I dont ask to see the teachers as that would be rude, but many ask me for a session with them for support and feedback. I do however see their students.

Events requiring full dress rehearsals obviously would be an exception, but at some point, a student needs to feel that their teacher has enough confidence in their development and judgment that they don't require pre-screening any longer. Is this just for a first solo, or does it continue for some number of subsequent performances?

Yes, there are people you can have total faith in. However, no matter how good you are, it is good to get feedback and support for what you are doing.

We have a mix of events - student haflas just for us, student haflas with friends and family, dancing and community events such as fetes and a big show every 18 months or so.

In the first absolutely anyone can perform - first come, first served. And they do their own choreo and preparation, I just give help or advice if asked. And all the classes perform the choreos they've been learning in class. It's a very supportive, very unpressured atmosphere and because it's just us it doesn't matter if someone totally messes up.

When friends and family are invited to a hafla we (me and the other Hipsinc teachers) start to orchestrate things a bit more so we are making sure the GP see BD and the students in a good light. So we will only ask the more advanced students to solo and we make sure the programme is balanced and interesting. Any student can join in the group performances but there will be a bit more costuming and a bit more requirement to practice.

Fetes and so on we try to show a mix of 'ordinary' women dancing a group dance plus our best soloists. So the GP can see there is a place in our school for everyone - from the most rhythmically challenged to the aspiring professional. And also so they can enjoy the sight of happy women dancing for fun as well as really good, pro standard dancing.

Finally, our big student shows are totally choreographed, thoroughly rehearsed and properly costumed. Any student can perform as long as they know the choreo. I always say I don't care about how well you can dance, I do care about whether you know the steps - it's about professionalism and respect for your audience. And there's always a big beginners dance which you can do even ifyou've only been with us a few weeks, as long as you have learned the steps (I put all my choreos on You Tube so they can practice at home) The beginners dance often gets the biggest applause from everyone!

Ahh Charlotte.. you said it! 'a student show' and yes, this deserves a round of applause in itself!

My issue is, have attended events where the troupe consisted of a mix of different levels from a class, but were entitled with a fancy troupe name and no mention of students.

I just think we dont take care of these things enough. Teachers dont make these distinctions enough and it gives a false impression to the students and public in general.

I have always believed in the six months to a year before a student performs in public with exceptions made for "class" performance with only other students present. Unfortunately in my area for the past year or so several young students(not just mine) have been out marketing themselves anyway. Even doing public performances......I waited until my own teacher encouraged me to start performing after a year of classes with the promise that I would continue to study the art.

Oh yes and one thing I didn't make clear - in our big student show (big theatre, paid seats, lots of GP) the student performances are big class group numbers. Soloists are the teachers and pro students.

And we always make it clear in the introductions who's who.

I have pondered for a while how to phrase this. I don't want to appear as though I have got it all figured out, or come across as preachy.
I feel strongly that students should not perform in a public venue, other than at a clearly labeled student show. And this includes nursing homes, schools, fairs, etc., as well as parties, nightclubs, and events.
I make it very clear to my students that Bellydance as a fun, creative hobby, is a totally different animal from public performing & entertainment.

I have followed this format for a number of years:
I produce 2 large theater stage student recitals, with guest artists, twice a year; and one "mini" student recital during summer in studio for just friends & family. All my classes, including beginner, have a least a simple routine that any student who comes to class and rehearsals can perform in recitals if they wish. Some of them choose not to perform.
Years ago I used to also have 2 parties a yr in my home, for students ( & guests) to perform and socialize; that was a hafla to me. Some of my students and friends have taken this on, though not so much lately. I also started a "Bellydance Club" a few years ago, with the intention to encourage others to keep it going as organizers,...but it's too much work for most people. .w.:
Any public performances, whether paid, or as a donation for benefit, are done by members of my professional troupe, which has a written charter, rules, standards, etc. We work very hard to be of professional caliber. They have to take workshops with other dancers & instructors and always continue learning. So do I.
I create performance opportunities for students, because it's fun, sociable, rewarding, and so they are not "tempted" to perform in public venues ..l;, I let them know that I do not sanction, if you will, them performing in public.
My students seem aware that to get to a professional level requires much more (more time, energy, money, natural rhythm or talent, etc.) than most people have available. That is neither good nor bad in my book, but just reality.
The fun, camaraderie, joy, self-expression, empowerment, from dancing as a hobby is wonderful. I respect & love my students, who come and go, or stay, over the years. My professional group, which I respect and love as well, is not the same as my classes. Each has a different goal.

Originally Posted by caroline_afifi

I suppose in terms of re-thinking how we introduce performance to students,

Most student groups I know in the UK are very public in their performances and because they do it for free.. there are many.

The performance is usually a medley of very basic choreographies and not always done particularly well or a good representation of ME dance.

What is it like in your area?

sorry, i was thinking more about how we introduce students to performing.... if that makes sense ^_~

I have had one big student show per year. I have level two and beyond take part. i don't have beginner beginners because I feel like they are just not ready. I try instead to invite them to watch so they have soemthing to look forward to!
My level 2 and beyond are also free to present a solo but I have rules: THEY need to prepare the solo, no DVD or workshop choreos. (it is a teaching tool! They really figure out what they are good at what they want to be good at and such. During the process I bring them into the studio and work with them, give suggestions to help them along) At the show the audience knows the rules so they can really appriciate the work that the student put into it no matter their level or dance ability.

for group numbers level 2 and beyond learn choreos in class. Some choose to perform them, some not. Learning the whole dance is also a part of learning. Even if they choose not to perform they strengthen skills by putting it all in a full length choreo.

I have a student performance group that does go to public events. They are very much students and are never billed as pros (really get to me when teachers do that!). This group of students are invited into the group based on dance skills but more than that their dedication to studying, how well they get on when performing (a stressful situation for students and some do better than others getting along:) The group have varing levels of ability but all have the will to improve!:)

I think throwing students on the stage to fast gives them the idea that they only need to know just a bit and their good to go. I like to wait until they are at least have a movemnet vocabulary that I can work off of to give them a choreo! If they don't then the choreo will not be very interesting:)

Originally Posted by raqFariha

sorry, i was thinking more about how we introduce students to performing.... if that makes sense ^_~

yes, that is right... it is an open question really.

I think, historically most teachers have assumed that all students will perform at some level..this in term leads people to think that this is the path for this dance.

I have recently been having discussions with fellow friends and teachers about this issue. Some teachers are now 'embarrassed' that some students are signing themselves up for performances who are not very good, and then declaring themselves as students of X.

I know there is little anyone can do about this, but I suggested to her that by teaching them choreographies and organisning performances for them in the past has given them a taste for something they do not want to stop... regardless of how good/bad they are.

I dont personally think it is about how long people have attended class either.. it is about how ready and able they are.

I just think many performances are not seen as something to work hard towards, but almost taken for granted.

There are student haflahs for all to work towards, but the public domain is something we should consider very carefully.

Originally Posted by caroline_afifi

I think, historically most teachers have assumed that all students will perform at some level..this in term leads people to think that this is the path for this dance.

In a way, it is. This is a performance art. Performing it is part of the technique: being able to emote, interpreting music in a way that expresses something resonant with other people, and more often than not, breaking the fourth wall and specifically engaging the audience. When you take those components away, all you have left is low-impact aerobic exercise to foreign music. If that's all you want it to be, that is your choice, but it's rather like proclaiming you're going to start taking "comedian lessons" for the sole purpose of muttering jokes to yourself. You could, and perhaps you might sufficiently enjoy amusing yourself that way, but you're not really "being" a comedian, because the point of that pursuit is to make other people laugh.

I know there is little anyone can do about this, but I suggested to her that by teaching them choreographies and organisning performances for them in the past has given them a taste for something they do not want to stop... regardless of how good/bad they are.

Even for the ones who don't enjoy performing, a sort of momentum builds that keeps pushing them along. Once you get past the green beginner level, our educational system doesn't do a very good job of giving students a sense of progress any other way. Often, if you opt out of the "performing track" at your studio, you are in limbo--just aimlessly taking the same post-beginner class over and over with no obvious milestones or feedback to indicate improvement, and no challenges to work toward. It's hard not to be envious of the performing students who seem to be making progress (or at least filling up a Gantt chart with stuff to do).

I dont personally think it is about how long people have attended class either.. it is about how ready and able they are.

Again, this is a failure of teachers to be more honest and critical with their students. If you're not going to evaluate students one at a time and tell them whether they are "good enough" or "ready," you have to sweep them along in bulk on a calendar system. Everybody dancers after two months of class! And six months! And at the workshop show! Oh? Is the show next weekend? Well, we rehearsed for two months, so we must be ready to perform now!

I just think many performances are not seen as something to work hard towards, but almost taken for granted.

If the miller's business depends on not hurting the chaff's feelings by winnowing it from the wheat, then you better like gritty, high-fiber bread.

Originally Posted by LiesaB.

I have pondered for a while how to phrase this. I don't want to appear as though I have got it all figured out, or come across as preachy.

I don't either! But I agree with your next statements entirely:

I feel strongly that students should not perform in a public venue, other than at a clearly labeled student show. And this includes nursing homes, schools, fairs, etc., as well as parties, nightclubs, and events.
I make it very clear to my students that Bellydance as a fun, creative hobby, is a totally different animal from public performing & entertainment.

I hold this same philosophy, LiesaB:

I create performance opportunities for students, because it's fun, sociable, rewarding, and so they are not "tempted" to perform in public venues ..l;,

As you do, I make it very clear that dancing for the GP, paid or not, is for a level of student who has the skill, natural talent, etc, as well as the time and commitment to practice and rehearsal:

I let them know that I do not sanction, if you will, them performing in public.
My students seem aware that to get to a professional level requires much more (more time, energy, money, natural rhythm or talent, etc.) than most people have available. That is neither good nor bad in my book, but just reality.
The fun, camaraderie, joy, self-expression, empowerment, from dancing as a hobby is wonderful. I respect & love my students, who come and go, or stay, over the years.

A big YES to everything in your post!

ETA: It makes sense that many students will want to perform, in some fashion, at some point. Further, I am very committed to the idea that it's our job as teachers to be sure students perform at the venues and under the situations appropriate for them, on the basis of each student's level; I believe Tourbeau's statement reflects this notion: "This is a performance art. Performing it is part of the technique: being able to emote, interpreting music in a way that expresses something resonant with other people, and more often than not, breaking the fourth wall and specifically engaging the audience. When you take those components away, all you have left is low-impact aerobic exercise to foreign music."

Deborah

Originally Posted by caroline_afifi

yes, that is right... it is an open question really.....

in that case, my brain constipation is over and i would say that, whatever the details of when/how/for whom, it is a matter of presenting performance to students as a privilege rather than a right. (that and making sure students have the chance to gain confidence in their abilities/validity before encouraging them to perform/ encouraging dancers to have a mentor ^_~)

[quote]

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

In a way, it is. This is a performance art. Performing it is part of the technique: being able to emote, interpreting music in a way that expresses something resonant with other people, and more often than not, breaking the fourth wall and specifically engaging the audience. When you take those components away, all you have left is low-impact aerobic exercise to foreign music. If that's all you want it to be, that is your choice, but it's rather like proclaiming you're going to start taking "comedian lessons" for the sole purpose of muttering jokes to yourself. You could, and perhaps you might sufficiently enjoy amusing yourself that way, but you're not really "being" a comedian, because the point of that pursuit is to make other people laugh.

The diffrence is, many people who attend dance lessons at a community level do so without any expectations of performing.

Many people who try African dance styles, salsa, Lindy Hop etc. attend without ever considering performance as an option... infact, I have known a situation where people have said to me they went along to belly dancing for a laugh and to see what it was like... and before they knew it they were performing with the class at an outdoor festival.

That is leap that bothers me.

Originally Posted by caroline_afifi

The diffrence is, many people who attend dance lessons at a community level do so without any expectations of performing.

Because of the way that this dance evolved theatrically, audience interaction is a bigger component of our skill set than it might be for something like tap or ballroom dance. However, many people sign up (either in school or adult extension classes) to study foreign language with no realistic plans to use that language in its native setting, too. Nevertheless, when you get in that class, the teacher makes conversation (both listening and speaking) part of the curriculum, even if all you need is enough to pick at written words. It's made clear to you that you have to learn this anyway. If you want to be able to say you have any competence on this subject, this is part of a package deal.

None of this excuses pushing our students into performing for the public when they don't want to, letting them perform when they're not ready, or picking bad venues for student performances. As a general statement, our teachers don't:

(a) sufficiently explain that learning how to present the dance properly to an audience is part of learning how to do it,
(b) instill respect for the stagecraft behind good dancing, and
(c) put students in the position where they can practice their skills in front of the right audiences (mostly other students) at the right points in their training.

Going back to the language analogy, students come into those classes with some rudimentary knowledge that going up to a native speaker and stringing a bunch of mispronounced, misinterpreted words together with bad grammar will result in not being understood. Students expect that they're going to have to make (miserably awkward, banal) attempts to converse in class as part of the learning process. Practicing in the classroom is both experience and a subtle prod toward the idea that this isn't so easy to do fluently, now is it?

As a community, our educational system fails at this. We let students delude themselves into believing that learning mechanics qualifies them for performing, and we don't provide enough closed opportunities for practice because we cave to the pressure to let them dress up and play belly dancer for larger audiences. We give our power as teachers away to students, so they are controlling the curriculum. Do foreign language teachers let students declare that they don't need to learn about verbs because it isn't any fun, or because conjugation drills cramp their style? Do they encourage students to think that six weeks of memorizing phrases will allow them to converse competently with natives?

That is leap that bothers me.

I don't think you are bothered by the leap as much as by the underlying lousy teaching it represents.