Thread: Input: Static rhythms you prefer to teach to

Greetings!

As I've been travelling and teaching workshops, I've been creating tracks of rhythms to teach with. These differ from the usual fare on existing CD's because:
- Each track is MUCH longer
- Each successive track increases in tempo (That is, teach a combo to a slow tempo....then when they have it, you press [>>] and voila - it's faster!)

I had been asked by so many people for copies of my tracks, and since I wrote & recorded them I can can do that. ;) I figured I would offer the tracks on a CD. Right now, I'm offering them on download only...it's more cost effective until I know if this is a viable tool for other instructors.

So, my first project was 9 tracks, 4 rhythms, 5 tempos and each track 8 minutes long. It included Wahda (2 tempos), Maqsum (3 tempos), a Maghrebi 6/8 (2 tempos) and Ayoob (2 tempos).

The rhythms modulate slightly in obvious phrases of 4 & 8 to keep some sort of interest, and help us to find the 1 of a phrase to begin.

My question to fellow instructors, those who find this kind of tool useful:

- What other rhythms do you use that might be helpful?
- Would you rather see fewer rhythms on one CD?
- And if you prefer fewer rhythms is that in favour of more tempos or longer tracks?
- Currently, it has no melody. Would you prefer some sort of melody in there? (I find that when melody exists, I tend to teach TO the melody...which kind of takes away my focus of drilling technique)

My thought is that Volume 2 will include Samai, Malfuf, Saidi & Rhumba. Volume 3 I plan on doing more Turkish rhythms including chiftetelli, a 9/8, etc

I have a separate set of tracks for isolation & shimmy drills. It's more electronic interpretations of Arabic rhythms. For those of us who are more 'purists', would you like a higher energy version for shimmy/isolation drills that is built on acoustic instruments (read: no electronics). You can hear samples of the electronic/Arabic cd at Jim Boz | Shut Up and Shimmy | CD Baby

If you want to check out the format, visit Jim Boz | Instructor's Toolkit: Volume 1 | CD Baby

Thanks for your input!
I'm always happy to create tools to help us to be more effective! One of the things I *love* about this dance is the organic nature of not only the dance, but the instructional formats. As teachers, most of us have differeing approaches, which is why I always tell my students to take from as many people as time & money allow. Regardless of whether you share that philosophy or not, if you find a tool useful, chances are there's a bunch of other people that do.
HUGS!

Originally Posted by JimBoz

- What other rhythms do you use that might be helpful?

- Currently, it has no melody. Would you prefer some sort of melody in there? (I find that when melody exists, I tend to teach TO the melody...which kind of takes away my focus of drilling technique)

Masmoudi! Both Saghir and Kabir would be great. Perhaps also Fellahi.

I prefer melody of some sort, since it's rare (except maybe in a drum solo) that you would encounter such rhythms for an extended period without an overlying melody, and it's helpful to teach students how to pick out the rhythm.

Great idea, Jim! :)

Thanks for the input!!

As for including melody, I'll have to ponder that one. I use these tracks as the step just past isolation drills, to drilling specific sequences of movements over & over. To introduce melody...hmmm...

So, do you envision having a simple melody, maybe 8 bars of it, repeated several times over and over? Maybe modulating it? I wanted to keep it under the guise of 'instructors drills' rather than writing full on songs, since I'm still learning maqam theory.

Hmm...now I'm pondering how to make that work where:
1 - Students AND teachers don't get bored
2 - The melodies/formats don't change radically so you can keep the same combo drill

I might ask you to be a 'guinea pig'. :)
Would you mind?

When I am working on drills, I like having the repetitive rhythm throughout the song. However, to keep students from getting bored with the music, you should include a very short melody that repeats itself throughout the song.

For example, have 32 meaures of beats only, then keep the beat going and add 16 measures of a melody. Then repeat that sequence. This gives the instructor time too during the melody to shift to level changes or explaining something etc. It also gives the students a place to jump back in if they get lost.

As for different rhythms, I think each cd should focus on just a few. They need to provide music for approximately a one hour class. Also this way gives us a chance to buy more cds from you ..g.:

Non topic related. Jim, I went to your website looking for the pair of zills you used to sell (but no luck), 3 silver and one bronze. Do you still carry those? Thanks a bunch!

Thank you, thank you, thank you! This is my dream teaching music!

Originally Posted by JimBoz

- What other rhythms do you use that might be helpful?
- Would you rather see fewer rhythms on one CD?
- And if you prefer fewer rhythms is that in favour of more tempos or longer tracks?
- Currently, it has no melody. Would you prefer some sort of melody in there? (I find that when melody exists, I tend to teach TO the melody...which kind of takes away my focus of drilling technique)

#1 - Another vote for Masmoudi in there.
#2 - I would rather have 3 tempos, particularly on the "basic" 4/4 rhythms, like you have with the Maqsoum.
#3 - Melody? Pfft, I'm not so bothered. This is for pure drilling purposes.

Hope that helps.

Originally Posted by thussell

When I am working on drills, I like having the repetitive rhythm throughout the song. However, to keep students from getting bored with the music, you should include a very short melody that repeats itself throughout the song.

EXCELLENT POINT!
At one time I fantasized about finding traditional Arabic songs that had 'regular' phrasing and then re-arrange them with a static beat. Then students get:
- Repetitive rhythms to practice
- Some melody
- Familiarity with Arabic song standards

Originally Posted by thussell

For example, have 32 meaures of beats only, then keep the beat going and add 16 measures of a melody. Then repeat that sequence. This gives the instructor time too during the melody to shift to level changes or explaining something etc. It also gives the students a place to jump back in if they get lost.

I'm pretty sure I see what you're saying. Excellent input. Problem I run into is making it 'obvious' to the instructors-at-large when the melody is going to kick in and not. Not everyone has a visceral connection to the numbers of bars that have passed...that's usually reserved for the few of us that are synesthetic.

Of course, since I'm writing it...I mean, I can put audio cues in there! LOL

This is kind of specialized. If you have a rhythm and instrument idea, I'd be happy to put a piece together for you specifically and we'll see how that goes.

Originally Posted by thussell

As for different rhythms, I think each cd should focus on just a few. They need to provide music for approximately a one hour class. Also this way gives us a chance to buy more cds from you ..g.:

You think 4 is too many? I envisioned keeping the CD at:
- One 8 count rhythm (usually reserved for slower music, or at least we practice slower music with them)
- One 4 count rhythm
- One 2 count rhythm
- One non2/4/8 rhythm (like a 6, 9, 7 or 5)

...but then again, that's just how I think. So your input is GREATLY appreciated. I'd rather these tools be as usable as possible so that we as instructors have less prep time.

As for buying more cds from me, LOL - you might be assuming that I'm making money on these! LOL After you add in the expenses of the equipment, the mastering, the setup costs....well, let's just say it will be a loooong time until I see a profit. I will be happy if I break even, but that's not a requirement for me. I'm loving being able to make music again and plan on releasing new original (non-belly dance) music under my former stage name.

WOW! Thanks for your input! LOTS to think about.
It's one thing to do what I find useful, but better tools for teaching equals better environment for students which hopefully will equal better dancers worldwide!

Originally Posted by Shaharazad

Non topic related. Jim, I went to your website looking for the pair of zills you used to sell (but no luck), 3 silver and one bronze. Do you still carry those? Thanks a bunch!

Thanks for the question.
I'm currently out of stock on those. I need to call Harry to make some more, but it will probably be a few months. sorry. :(

Originally Posted by beafarhana

Thank you, thank you, thank you! This is my dream teaching music!

Yaaay! Glad you like this format!

Originally Posted by beafarhana

#1 - Another vote for Masmoudi in there.
#2 - I would rather have 3 tempos, particularly on the "basic" 4/4 rhythms, like you have with the Maqsoum.
#3 - Melody? Pfft, I'm not so bothered. This is for pure drilling purposes.

Hope that helps.

1- Masmoudi: check. Maybe I'll hold rhumba off for another CD and do Masmoudi kabir on this one.
2- 3 tempos of each? would you rather have shorter pieces and more tempos? Or just fewer rhythms on each? CDs are annoyingly restrictive beasts for time format.
3- Got it! So some like melody, others don't. This leaves LOTS of options. Perhaps I should have a separate 'melodic' drills CD using the formats discussed in here, also including my concepts for a 'slow drills' cd where the beat stays static, but the melody is expressed in 8 counts, 16 counts & 32 counts for following a progressively slower pulse with each move. Yum!

Oh, and MISS YOU!!!!
I hope to see y'all in the UK again soon!
Hugs!

I guess shorter pieces, then. I like to work at different paces, start slow and careful, then a bit faster, then faster again.

I'm not seeing this as a "teaching my students about rhythms" cd, (although it could turn into that) more as a getting them to work on pure technique, the way Egyptian teachers do when they bring their drummer to class and no cd player!

That's the trouble with input, you get more ideas!

Hugs right backatcha! I'll be there whenever you're back here!

Yah, it definitely is NOT a 'teach rhythms' cd.
But yeah - I would LOVE to travel with my own drummer. I'm hoping to try to create a similar experience.

I never mind all the input.
I just hope people don't get upset if I don't use it all. As with anything, there's WAY more info that we can use. At least i have the next few months to try to get as much together as possible.

Originally Posted by JimBoz

Perhaps I should have a separate 'melodic' drills CD using the formats discussed in here, also including my concepts for a 'slow drills' cd where the beat stays static, but the melody is expressed in 8 counts, 16 counts & 32 counts for following a progressively slower pulse with each move. Yum!

This sounds fabulous. And, of course, I would be your guinea pig anytime! ..g.:

I don't know if this is feasible, but would it be possible to put out a short track for each rhythm that loops cleanly? One thing that bothered me about a certain unnamed percussionist's rhythm-teaching CD is that the tracks sped up as they progressed. I see the point to that--when you're learning it's helpful to work up to the faster speed as you're playing, but other times I just want one steady rhythm that keeps up for a long while. When you have a track that increases tempo and you put it on "continuously cycle" mode, you may not notice how much faster it actually gets until it jumps back to 0:00, slows way down, and throws everybody off.

Personally, I'm fine with just percussion for musical drilling. I don't need melody.

Regarding the selection of rhythms, I guess it depends on whether you want to appeal to the student who is content to dabble with "easy" records for Western dancers, or someone with higher aspirations who'd someday like to dance to complex music from a live band. In the parts of the US where I've lived, cymbal playing has been primarily the domain of the old-school AmCab gals and ATS dancers. The other styles aren't so concerned about cymbals. To that end, the rhythms that seem to be the most "popular" are the maqsoum/masmoudi family, ayoub, chifti, and karsilama. The next tier would be the ones like malfouf, wahda, etc., (ones that come up regularly in multi-rhythm compositions for dancers), the common folkloric patterns, and on to the more obscure rhythms from there. A lot of teachers like to call "tek-a-tek, tek-a-tek, tek-a-tek,..." a rhythm (and it is the default cymbal pattern for many students to play), so if you wanted to pad out the project, you could thrown in a practice track for that, but part of me hates to dignify that one by putting it in the company of the others.

One other suggestion would be to provide standard Western musical notation, if you are packaging the project with liner notes. I know a lot of dancers can't read music, but for those of us who can, it definitely simplifies the conversation.

Hmmmm . . . I'm thinking slightly shorter tracks (about 5 minutes?) with 2-3 tempo changes.

I like the idea of a melody line interspersed with pure rhythm. For consistency's sake, I'd have the same number of measures of melody as I do pure rhythm.

You know, I've been wanting something like this for many years.

Hurry up and distribute it already, will ya? ;-)

Deborah

Well, my favorite rhythm for teaching is ayoub 2/4 on the darbouka. It's easy, but has enough space to create some great combinations. For the breaks maybe you could signal with a series of finger rolls or something and go into the melody. Also, I love, love, love accordion.

I think 4 different rhythms on one cd is perfect as long as you include a couple examples of each. I really like that you're adding a non 4 count as well. It really helps to challenge the students feel for the music.

Thank you for taking in all of our suggestions! Behind every great dancer is a musician who inspired them!

Originally Posted by nasila

Masmoudi! Both Saghir and Kabir would be great. Perhaps also Fellahi.

I prefer melody of some sort, since it's rare (except maybe in a drum solo) that you would encounter such rhythms for an extended period without an overlying melody, and it's helpful to teach students how to pick out the rhythm.

Great idea, Jim! :)

perhaps the melody volume, relative to the drum volume, gets turned up as the tempo increases to go along with the format of the different tempos?

I use both the "just rhythm" type of drilling, alternated with rhythm-with- a-simple melody. I like just the "nuthin but the facts ma'm" only rhythm/no melody to establish clear movement without distraction, and so the body has a visceral response to beats. Then, doing similar drills with melody adds some interest. So I alternate. Rhythm-no-melody is helpful for beginners who struggle with hearing the beat I think. So my dream teaching tool has a variety!

Originally Posted by casbahdance

Hmmmm . . . I'm thinking slightly shorter tracks (about 5 minutes?) with 2-3 tempo changes.

I like the idea of a melody line interspersed with pure rhythm. For consistency's sake, I'd have the same number of measures of melody as I do pure rhythm.

You know, I've been wanting something like this for many years.

Hurry up and distribute it already, will ya? ;-)

Deborah

If you want melody in there, it'll take me a bit to get that together. You can be one of my guinea pigs too? :) I can send you tracks and you can 'play test' them.

As for just static rhythms, I already have one CD out available for download at Jim Boz | Instructor's Toolkit: Volume 1 | CD Baby

9 tracks all 8 minutes each; 4 rhythms (Wahda, Maqsum, 6/8 & Ayoob) at 5 tempos. :)

Originally Posted by thussell

Well, my favorite rhythm for teaching is ayoub 2/4 on the darbouka. It's easy, but has enough space to create some great combinations. For the breaks maybe you could signal with a series of finger rolls or something and go into the melody. Also, I love, love, love accordion.

I think 4 different rhythms on one cd is perfect as long as you include a couple examples of each. I really like that you're adding a non 4 count as well. It really helps to challenge the students feel for the music.

Thank you for taking in all of our suggestions! Behind every great dancer is a musician who inspired them!

Wow, Ayoob, really? I tend to fall on maqsum because in my experience that's been the most common rhythm, plus the modulations are applicable to quite a few other common 4/4 rhythms. Yum!

Yes, rolls to go into sections. I tend to arrange things so it's rather mathematical. There are actually clues to help count which pattern we're in...like using loops like
A - B - A - C | A - B - A - D

So...where's the musician behind my dancing?!?
Wait, that's me! LOL

Just call me triple threat: Dancer/Instructor/Musician!

Originally Posted by raqFariha

perhaps the melody volume, relative to the drum volume, gets turned up as the tempo increases to go along with the format of the different tempos?

What a GREAT idea!

I have a few tracks that I use to teach dancing to the different cycles in the music. They're all the first paragraph of Lylet Hob.

One track has the rhythm the loudest
One has the harmonic rhythm the loudest
One has the Melody the loudest

And then the combinations begin!

One has the Melody up until the point where one melodic cycle ends and a harmonic one begins, then the harmonic rhythm is loudest, and back & forth. Then the same thing with Melody/Rhythm, Harmonic/Rhythm, and then all 3!

heh he hheh

It makes more sense when I'm teaching the workshop, I'm pretty sure.

Originally Posted by LiesaB.

I use both the "just rhythm" type of drilling, alternated with rhythm-with- a-simple melody. I like just the "nuthin but the facts ma'm" only rhythm/no melody to establish clear movement without distraction, and so the body has a visceral response to beats. Then, doing similar drills with melody adds some interest. So I alternate. Rhythm-no-melody is helpful for beginners who struggle with hearing the beat I think. So my dream teaching tool has a variety!

Excellent!
Want to be another guinea pig?
heh heh heh

Originally Posted by JimBoz

It makes more sense when I'm teaching the workshop, I'm pretty sure.

^_^ i think dancers usually get it better when we're on our feet, but i think i get it ^_~
looking forward to the releases! (and going to be keeping a better eye for your workshops :) )

I think this is an excellent concept. But can I ask what you are using to create the rhythms?

I ask because the Maqsoum sounds more like a Saidi because the middle tak accent sounds like a doum.

These are the most common rhythms I find for Arabic cabaret dancers

Malfouf
Maqsoum
Fast Maqsoum
Baladi
Saidi
Nawari
Masmoudi (Kebir)
Fellahi
Ayoub
Khalegy
Rhumba


Then there are the rhythmic taqsim rhythms

Wahada
Wahada Wa Noss
Wahada Kebir
Fast Chiftitelli
Chiftitelli

I'd love to have a soft melody line in there, but right now I am using your 1st cd non-stop in class. It is perfect for drills across the floor. I also use the different speeds in my isolations drills part of the warm-up/class beginning - working from slower to faster.

Honestly, I'd love to see *any* more rhythms, but I would adore having a full collection from you b/c these are great for teaching. I used to have a live drummer in all of my classes and I have really missed having a consistent drum track for my students to work with; this isn't quite like having a drummer in class, but it is a lot easier than drilling to full songs. Thanks for working on these!

Originally Posted by JimBoz

Excellent!
Want to be another guinea pig?
heh heh heh

Sure! I would be honored!

Originally Posted by JimBoz

If you want melody in there, it'll take me a bit to get that together. You can be one of my guinea pigs too? :) I can send you tracks and you can 'play test' them.

As for just static rhythms, I already have one CD out available for download at Jim Boz | Instructor's Toolkit: Volume 1 | CD Baby

9 tracks all 8 minutes each; 4 rhythms (Wahda, Maqsum, 6/8 & Ayoob) at 5 tempos. :)

Hey, you bet I would guinea pig for you!

Re: a melody line: I don't think it is strictly necessary, but I think including some melody might be a little easier on the brains of students. Hmmmm . . . maybe add some melody towards the end of each track. Hmmmm. . . that might be a good way to incorporate improv into the drillling, if desired, ie, "So here's some melody -- make that work with your drill movement/combo/etc"

I'll check out what you have online now, too!

Deborah

Checked out the online samples - sounds great!

So many great ideas, and varations!

Here's what I'm starting to think now:
I'm going to continue the Toolkit series but add in at least one CD (for now) that I'm going to call 'special request'. In it, I will put together rhythms, melodies & formats that people ask for.

It will take me a bit of time, since I have a couple projects to get under wraps first (Volume 2, and then a cd I'm called Ishtebak (All mixing my love of dark electronics with Arabic influences (check out a sample piece here [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsXB3LVGG2w]YouTube - Work in Progress - 10/12/10[/ame])).

SO, if you don't mind me pvt msg'ing you here or on email, I might be sending you tracks to 'play test', in exchange for naming the piece after you on the cd....? If YOU wrap your head around teaching it that way, chances are there's a whole bunch of other beginning instructors who will benefit from it...and ultimately we'll end up with a bunch of way better teachers, yeah?

I'm all for getting better teachers in our community!

I'm happy to be a guinea pig, if you need more.

Originally Posted by beafarhana

I'm all for getting better teachers in our community!

I'm happy to be a guinea pig, if you need more.

Hunney, friends are always top on that list until you tell me no more.
That's the same as when I'm buying rounds of shots.
mmmm

Oh, no UK visits in 2011 - working on an Australian tour. Maybe I'll make it back to the UK in 2012! I fully want to - want to see where my father in law is from. heh heh heh

HUGS!