Thread: Am I doing something wrong?

All of a sudden my core group of students don't seem interested in anything. We have three events coming up over the next three weeks:

1) A local hafla with very exciting LIVE MUSIC! that we're invited to perform at/attend. We've ALWAYS attended this organizers' events. Usually from 10 to 30 of us, and this one is on an annually reurring date, so I know it's not the season.

2) A special topic class on folkloric dances. I asked my students what they want from me this year and they said "folkloric styles," so I'm bringing a regional teacher over to teach a weekend class. They can learn Debke and Khaleegy in one afternoon for $25. I'm getting registrations, but NOT ONE of them is from my own students!

3) They've been invited to perform at a workshop show where I'm the featured guest instructor. The sponsor has graciously invited them to do their group wings number on a big stage, they don't have to attend the workshop and, I assume, would get free admission to the show. I consider this a huge honor. They'd have to drive 2 hours to the show, but could certainly carpool, and could stay overnight at the home of a former student they all know. Not ONE of them wants to do it.

OTOH, they've all been invited to a day on the shooting range by another student and most of them are really interested in that. So it's not just being busy or whatever. They're just not interested in dance events.

I'm trying not to be hurt -- or at least not to tell them I'm hurt. I work so hard to provide these opportunities for them -- not to mention what I spent on five pairs of wings. Right now I feel like chucking it all and saying 'that's it, I'm not lining up performance opportunities any more, I'm not buying any more big props for this group, and if I set up workshops they'll be in St. Louis where they're convenient for the folks who DO want to attend them."

My thoughts:

• Maybe it's normal for a group to go through a lull?
• Maybe I have too many levels now and the 'seniors' are too isolated from the more enthusiastic noobs?
• Maybe I need to shut the whole rep group down and start over, making it more exclusive, more of an honor & committment to be part of it?
• Maybe I should tell them how I feel and ask them what's going on (scary, and I'm afraid I'd really go off on them & turn them off -- they're not here to serve my needs.)
• Maybe I need to follow the lead of other troupe leaders I've seen and be a little pushier, like I just *expect* them all to perform and it's a big deal if they miss an opportunity.

lauren, i'm going to PM you, because I go through the same thing on a regular basis.
*sigh*
I'll PM you shortly.
I'm in the middle of a selling costume craze.

I think communication's really important in this situation. I'm in a troupe where some people thought we weren't really meshing together, so when full-on communication happened, it made things so much clearer and now we're much more together as a group.

Since you are putting a lot into getting your students these opportunities, it's important that you find out if indeed they are still interested in pursuing them, otherwise your time and energy is essentially getting put to waste.

Perhaps having a troupe meeting and discussing the issues and how you're feeling would be a good idea. That way, everyone gets to share what they're feeling and what they want from the troupe (hopefully in an open, non-judgmental way).

As a student: You probably want to say something to them, but it may be that they have other family commitments.

as an example: The class I take, there have been a number of us, myself included, who have not been coming every week for the past few months. I'm currently up to my eyeballs in work and grad school, so if an opportunity to dance came up that required 2 hour of driving, there is no way I could do it. But I would *really really* want to. Mental note to self: be sure to explain this to my teacher.

I PM'd you......

I think Teressa's right. You need to talk to them and find out what they want and expect, let them know in a non-needy way what you want and expect and then come up with a plan for future activities which takes all of that into consideration.

I understand prior committments, and have NO problem WHATSOEVER if that is explained, what gets my goat is the students who whine and complain and beg for special events, then you go out of your way, and then they don't support it.

Hi Lauren,
It might just be a periodic thing - three events in three weeks is a lot for most hobbyists, on top of weekly class. The typical pace for my group is maybe one event a month- be it a workshop, performance, field trip, party, etc.

sometimes opportunities come in waves.....

It is annoying to spend the time and energy to try to give others what they say they want and then not have them follow through. What you describe sounds like a normal thing to happen, annoying and normal. It can be difficult to talk with them, and perhaps they don't know, but it seems that communicating how you feel, your concerns, and checking up on why they are being as they are would be a good thing to do.

People always want to do more than they end up being able to. Open non-judgmental communication going both ways is important. They are there for you and you are there for them. Good luck.

Originally Posted by CFerhat

Hi Lauren,
It might just be a periodic thing - three events in three weeks is a lot for most hobbyists, on top of weekly class. The typical pace for my group is maybe one event a month- be it a workshop, performance, field trip, party, etc.

I agree with this 100% and I wouldn't expect that any of them would do more than one of the events.

But they're doing NONE of them. Zero. They haven't done anything dance related outside of regular classes since our student show in August.

(except for one student who went to a workshop with me -- none of the others even came to the show. And that one student is the only one participating in any of the other events, she's doing two possibly all three of them.)

I wonder if maybe after all the hard work for the August show, they're feeling a bit burned out? Back in my hobbyist days, when dance was third on my "top three" list of priorities, this would happen to me occasionally. I would work really hard to prepare for a performance, then literally do nothing dance related except for class and some out-of class drilling for weeks. Of course, I wasn't in a troupe, nor was my teacher setting up these opportunities, so it really didn't negatively affect anyone else. We see "burnout" threads on Bhuz quite a bit - these posters are all *somebody's* students.

With my student troupe, we are set for our first performance on Dec 2nd. I then plan to cancel troupe rehearsals (though regular class will continue) for the rest of December. I want to open up the troupe again to new members, and start a new choreography, but I want to give everyone a chance to recharge their batteries and get through Christmas before revving things up. I'm hoping a period of brief downtime between choreos will help keep everyone fresh.

I think a troupe meeting like Teressa mentioned would be a good idea. You could just open up the floor by saying that there doesn't seem to be as much interest from the group for upcoming performanmces, and you're trying to figure out why the dynamic has changed so much. You can stick to facts at the beginning, but as the conversation goes on, people will probably start talking about their their feelings, which will give you an opportunity to let them know that however unintentionally, your feelings have been hurt.

I's also like to add that I wish I lived closeer to you - Debke and Khaleegy in one afternoon for $25 sounds like my idea of heaven!

Originally Posted by laura 2

I's also like to add that I wish I lived closeer to you - Debke and Khaleegy in one afternoon for $25 sounds like my idea of heaven!

Yeah, that's a BARGAIN!

Originally Posted by laura 2

I's also like to add that I wish I lived closeer to you - Debke and Khaleegy in one afternoon for $25 sounds like my idea of heaven!

Okay, not to hijack, but I would love this workshop too. As far as I know there's nobody in my area that teaches these dances. Let me give some of your students a virtual slap upside the head and an admonition that there are starving belly dancers in upstate New York!

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Maybe I have too many levels now and the 'seniors' are too isolated from the more enthusiastic noobs?

THis is ironic because I just wrote in an e-mail to you that I was afraid I didn't have enough levels! D'oh! It's officially a no-win situation!

Maybe I should tell them how I feel and ask them what's going on

Well, I've had this kind of conversation with some of my Intermediate/Advanced students about poor attendance/lack of commitment to events that they sign up for, and what kills me is that they stress how much they love dance, they are going to buckle down and get serious, blah blah blah, and then they end up missing the following week's class...

I don't think students realize how much time, effort, and energy teachers expend in designing classes, organizing events, etc., and I don't think they realize something as simple as communicating with their teacher goes a LONG way in preventing confusion/self-blame on the part of the instructor. How often I've wished that a student would just CALL me and say, "I just wanted to let you know that I have a lot of stuff going on right now, so I won't be in class for a while and I won't be able to commit to any events." I think that's all we're asking for.

Nisaa

I think Laura's spot-on with the post-show burnout thing - I think that is very common.

As for the rest, I think it might be helpful to reframe some of these issues in business terms, rather than the feelings of disappointment/frustration with yourself or students - the demand that you thought was there, based on your initial research, is simply not. You need to do more research, ie. talk to your students, to find out why. I would try to keep the emotions aside if possible, to increase the chances of getting honest feedback.

I think you're a big-hearted teacher who wants to do the best for your students but you also have a business to run so your investments (in your students' education) need to be carefully considered - it's super tricky because I think students sometimes tell their teacher what they think the teacher wants to hear.

Originally Posted by CFerhat

wants to do the best for your students but you also have a business to run so your investments (in your students' education) need to be carefully considered - it's super tricky because I think students sometimes tell their teacher what they think the teacher wants to hear.

ARGHH! For students out there, and I am speaking for myself here,
Please just tell the truth and be honest. NOTHING is worse than telling us what we want to hear.

We are spending lots of $$$ and time and we need to have you guys be truthful.

Teachers don't make money as it is......

When I was a student, and even now, as a professional, I would kill for live music.
Do your students realize what a GREAT opportunity that is? And do they care?
Ack, I feel teacher burnout coming on..
When's summer again so I can take my vacation?

Lauren:

IMO, You aren't doing anything wrong except possibly giving them too much leeway. and I think it is totally understandable that you feel frustrated and hurt; I certainly would. I would suggest that rather than formally dumping the group and starting over, you simply sit down and have a pow-wow session with your group in which you "update" and tighten up the rules to bring the group more in line with *your* desires and expectations. After all, as the artistic director you are investing far more effort, time, and money into the group that they are, and you are the boss. For example:

1. You can explain that you expect the group to perform approximately X times per semester or year (X being the number of times you think is reasonable and desirable). You will give them input into what events they want to do and work around important aspects of their schedule (family obligations, work, school) but just opting out of everything to go shooting or do nothing is not an option.

2. You could make a rule that the group members are expected to attend at least X number of workshops per year (like maybe 2), and are expected to attend most if not all of the events that you sponsor. If they don't attend, they should have some reason other than just not wanting to. If money is an issue, perhaps they can work off part of the registration fee, for example by running errands for you or manning the registration table at the workshop. However, $25 for Nisaa's workshop is a screaming deal; they should all be going to it.

3. You could specify that the group will be expected to learn X new choreographies per year.

I think if you give them some reasonable rules they will probably not bail on you but will probably buck up and pull their weight more.

Meanwhile, don't stress about them not wanting to come to our show. If they change their mind, we'd love to have them. Otherwise, I will just do 3 solos and hog the stage all night. ..l;,

Sedonia

I agree with Laura - it wouldn't surprise me if this issue is due (at least in part) to burnout the students feel as a result of preparing for the big show you recently had. You probably demanded long hours of rehearsal, and the students may have felt that they just weren't "ready" to do that again just now - especially with the Thanksgiving and Christmas seasons coming up fast.

Sometimes students get burned out NO matter what level they are. Unless this is something they do to make money they arent as committed to it as you are. This is how you are paying bills and this is how they are spending their free time. It's fun for them but it's NOT something they need to be committed to full time.

This is only my guess. I don't know. I do know I hope you find out the truth.

((Hugs))

Thanks so much for your input, everyone. I really appreciate it.

I'm more emotional than usual at the moment (my hubby of 16 years is filling up a U-haul truck and moving out as I write these posts) so it's especially good to have a sounding board. My personal feelings of hurt & frustration have no place in my studio -- and probably aren't fully caused by what's going on there!

I think you're probably all right. Although the timing of the student show & the hafla are exactly the same as they were last year, and last year we had good hafla attendance. Usually two months is plenty of time to re-gather and be ready to do a single group dance again. In fact, they bought costumes for the student show I'd think they'd be dying to wear again!

I think I need to talk with them & find out more about what they want from the group, because in the end this group is about them. I may later want to start up a pro group, and that one can be all about my vision and my expectations.

I've seen it so often in *other* people's posts (where things are so much clearer than in your own posts). There's a funny line the student troupe walks, between wanting to be all professional & slick and remembering that it is a hobby for those involved.

I think I need to talk to my students about what they want. As much as I want us to be a troupe we can be proud of, maybe they'd rather be having fun. If that's the case, I should stop spending on cool props, stop working so hard to come up with stage-worthy choreos, and provide them with the fun that they want. They'll have to stop performing for the GP if they just want to have fun, and be happy dancing for each other & their friends & family, but that's OK too.

Maybe down the road I can have a more exclusive group of dancers who are willing to commit to fulfilling my artistic vision. Meanwhile I need to find out what this group wants & give it to them. Because I can demand whatever I want, but if my goals aren't in line with theirs I won't have a group, will I?

OTOH, I have found that people like being part of a group with high standards that they can be proud of. I've found that they crave strong leadership that helps them be the best they can be. They appreciate being pushed a bit to do things that they'll be proud to have been part of, and want someone to lay out the steps on the ladder for them so they can achieve things without having to set their own goals and measure their own progress.

Maybe an additional, more exclusive group is the next logical step here. Not right now, but perhaps in 6 months or so.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

OTOH, I have found that people like being part of a group with high standards that they can be proud of. I've found that they crave strong leadership that helps them be the best they can be. They appreciate being pushed a bit to do things that they'll be proud to have been part of, and want someone to lay out the steps on the ladder for them so they can achieve things without having to set their own goals and measure their own progress.

If I haven't said so before, Lauren, let me say now that I was sooo impressed with Hips Afire at your recital. It was obvious to me you put alot of effort into the choreographies; they were very professional. I liked the coordinated costumes. All the dancers danced great and looked wonderful. I hope they want to continue doing what they are doing with you, and I hope they fully appreciate who they have as a leader and teacher.

Sedonia

Lauren,

Another possibility could be an expense issue. I bit the bullet after several years of just sucking it up and told our instructor that I just couldn't afford to do the "troupe" stuff anymore and I was SOOOO embarassed to tell her but she was nice about it and I stepped away. I don't know, I'm just saying from an ex student/troupe member.
I'm glad you are turning to us ladies here on the board during this blahhh time. Stay strong!!

I'll second that. I'm at the point where if I have to buy one more costume piece I may have to scale back dancing.

Sounds like group meeting time. (Me thinks my classmates and I may need one too.) Just to be able to sit around and plan and talk.

Originally Posted by Michelle75

Lauren,

Another possibility could be an expense issue. I bit the bullet after several years of just sucking it up and told our instructor that I just couldn't afford to do the "troupe" stuff anymore and I was SOOOO embarassed to tell her but she was nice about it and I stepped away. I don't know, I'm just saying from an ex student/troupe member.
I'm glad you are turning to us ladies here on the board during this blahhh time. Stay strong!!

Originally Posted by ssipes

If I haven't said so before, Lauren, let me say now that I was sooo impressed with Hips Afire at your recital. It was obvious to me you put alot of effort into the choreographies; they were very professional. I liked the coordinated costumes. All the dancers danced great and looked wonderful. I hope they want to continue doing what they are doing with you, and I hope they fully appreciate who they have as a leader and teacher.

Sedonia

Sedonia, thank you. That means a lot coming from someone who's seen my students AND whose opinion I respect. (and who I know isn't afraid to tell it like it is!)

I think financial restrictions, burnout, family committments, etc. are all legitimate concerns. But when ALL the members of a group are SUDDENLY unavailable for event after event, I think the leadership of the group (moi!) has to step up and ask themselves the tough questions. (in this case "Am I doing something wrong?")

Really, when all else is going well with your group & you're proud and happy to be a member of it, $12 and one evening of your life doesn't feel like a hardship, it feels like a tread. But when you're unhappy, questioning whether the goals of the group mesh with your own, etc. then it becomes easy to feel too busy, too broke, too tired.

(me again! the babbling never ends...)

It's also possible that it's just a coincidence and I'm taking it personally because I'm soooo vulnerable right now. Or that it's all about social things within the group that have nothing to do with me.

I'm anxious now to talk to the students and find out what their feelings & goals are. I'm just really glad I got a chance to blow off steam here & get my initial (emotional) reaction out of the way first!

Lauren,

I've noticed that autumn always seems to be an emotionally vulnerable time for a lot of people. Days getting shorter, anticipation of holidays, grass getting browner, leaves falling. Life seems different.

Remember that while this is your profession and livelihood, it is a hobby for most of your students. And hobbies ebb and flow.

Why not plan a non-dance get together for your students. Maybe a Halloween party with families. Maybe instead of a class or rehearsal. Just let everyone enjoy each other's company.

Souzan

Lauren,

Just a quick thought regarding the fact that they ALL seem to be losing interest and/or have other commitments: it sounds like there may be something in the way the members are interacting with each other that is changing the mood of the troupe as a whole. Perhaps there are a few personalities that tend to set the mood for the troupe, which are now no longer enthusiastic (for whatever reason) and are essentially dragging everyone else down too? It's hard to be enthusiastic about being part of a group when the other members aren't particularly enthusiastic about it themselves. Take the workshops for instance: I bet if each troupe member had expected that everyone else would be attending, she (or he) would have actually wanted to go too. That probably doesn't help you figure out what to do in this situation to get things going again. I guess I just wanted to point out that just because the whole troupe seems to have lost interest as a collective doesn't mean that each individual dancer has personally lost all interest herself in the dance and in you as a director. It sounds like maybe... a few changes in attitude or availability from a few people, and now the whole troupe needs to find its feet again.

That said, I definitely agree that you're probably overdue for a serious and honest discussion with the troupe. You never know when some little perceived slight or misunderstanding or comment (which you never imagined could be taken a certain way) has grown a life of its own and wreaked all sorts of havoc.