Thread: Bellydance for strength?????

I've been asked to teach 2 classes at the local cancer wellness center. This is a very cool place where free classes in yoga, tai chi, etc. are offered.

After I agreed to teach the 2 classes, I got this message from the director:

I don’t know exactly what you have planned for your two sessions with us as I have not seen your Belly Dancing classes. Our intentions with these two sessions has been strength training. I assume the moves you teach will focus on the core muscles. Please plan to show the ladies moves that emphasize strengthening.

Do I just say 'yeah, yeah' and teach my class?

Or should I tell her the truth: that bellydance really isn't a strengthening activity, though it requires a strong core. In my warmups, I sometimes use pilates, yoga, and calisthenics to improve core strength for the dance. I do this BECAUSE I don't think bellydance moves alone are very strengthening.

I think bellydance could be more valuable as a way for women to get some light cardio/toning exercise while rebuilding a positive relationship with their bodies and their femininity (many have lost hair, breast tissue, etc).

Should I say so? I'd love to have a long-term relationship with this woman, I'd like it to be built on honesty and realistic expectations. No one builds strength from two BD classes.

Hmmm. Guess I kinda answered my own question there by the end. Thanks for letting me babble myself to an anwer!

Sometimes all that is needed by the person searching for their answer(s) is a quiet mouth and a willing ear on the part the one listening. ..g.:

I feel like it is stregnthening. But you sound like you have a more scientific understanding than i do. but all that arm work and core work I thought were doing just that. especially when you do a whole class of arms or when you slow the movements down. very slow figure eights and mayas and undulations take alot of strength to control. but is this not building strength?

Hmmm, I think bellydance IS pretty strengthening for the core, especially if you just focus on certain techniques for certain moves. Shimmies especially require thigh and glute strength for endurance. To keep shimmies going consistently and smoothly you for sure will build up your core strength. I would think any of your ab exercises(to separate upper and lower) would also be excellent for strengthening. Any and all pelvic movements require strength.
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If all they want is some core strengthening, then focus on technique and leave all the extra out.

Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to say there's no strengthening. Just that if someone's goal is to strengthen their core, I'd suggest yoga or pilates over bellydance. Or calisthenics.

Spending an hour doing sit ups and squats will build a *lot* more strength, and build it much faster, than spending an hour doing bellydance.

I agree the armwork can be strengthening, though not so much for the core. I *use* my arms' strength in bellydance, but I could have danced for 10 more years and never built the strength in my arms and upper back that I got from lifting weights and doing yoga pushups.

Funny you should post this thread. I just taught a belly dance class called "Belly Dance Strength and Flexibility" last night. While I believe all dance (ballet, tap, jazz, belly dance) helps develop strong bodies (not in the body builder sense of strength = muscle mass), this class has a very different focus from my "regular" belly dance class.

For example, I started them on the floor last night--doing stretches, belly rolls and some leg exercises I learned while studying ballet. We then stood up and sat on a chair to work on arm and chest isolations (similar to the new Rachel Brice DVD but more "AmCab" style). Then we got our heart rates up a bit with some lively combos. The class wrapped up with more stretching.

There's no full choreography to learn in this class. I do teach combos but more in the style of a Zumba class...I teach the combo while we move to the music, starting with the feet and moving up the body until most students "get it" and we then do the combos at full speed to the music.

I was pretty darn sore this morning so hopefully that means I'm pushing them hard enough. Tonight's class will be more "traditional" with 1/2 the class devoted to rehearsing a choreography for our upcoming student show.

Of course it's best to be honest with your employer/friend but perhaps you can meet her in the middle? Maybe change up your class structure a bit to include more core work? Start with combos and see if the students pick them up quickly? If they enjoy the combos, they might welcome learning a choreography and it will be a natural progression. My situation is a bit different since all but one of the students in my new "strength" class also take "regular" belly dance classes--so they want to take a break from choreography to focus more on making their bodies stronger for dance.

Best wishes with whatever you decide! ..g.:

OK, since I've got you all here, what do you think of this response?

Belly dance isn't a powerful strengthening activity, although some core strength is needed to execute the basic moves so I often do some core strengthening work during the warmup. We do *use* the core muscles, so there's a small strengthening component, and I can focus on that. But I don't want to mislead you.

I think bellydance could have real value for cancer survivors -- beyond being a fun light low-impact aerobic activity. What I see all the time (and experienced myself when I first started) was the change in my relationship with my body. Learning to love and enjoy the body when it's betrayed you can be huge - learning new things it can do, movements you didn't know you could make, etc. I watch women go from being self-conscious about their imperfections (focus on what their bodies look like) to being fascinated by their new movements (focus on what their bodies can do) all the time. It's my favorite part of teaching beginners! And some women really benefit from getting in touch with their femininity and feeling attractive -- I imagine this is especially true for women who've lost breast tissue, hair, etc.

I won't be talking about those things of course. I just teach dance and let all that other stuff happen! But I wouldn't want to mislead you by letting you think this is a strengthening activity. Unless someone is very out of shape to begin with, they'll get more core strength benefits from yoga or pilates.

Aside from the fact that it's waaaay too wordy, of course. What can I leave ou?

at the end i would not say that it is not a strenghtening activity but you can leave in that there are activities that are more strengthening. also stress how body friendly BD is and how it's not as jarring on the body as some other forms of exercise.
other than that, good answer.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

OK, since I've got you all here, what do you think of this response?


Aside from the fact that it's waaaay too wordy, of course. What can I leave ou?

Don't leave anything out except the part that it's not strengthening. I think they will be very happy with what you've said. It's not too wordy at all!!

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Or should I tell her the truth: that bellydance really isn't a strengthening activity, though it requires a strong core. In my warmups, I sometimes use pilates, yoga, and calisthenics to improve core strength for the dance. I do this BECAUSE I don't think bellydance moves alone are very strengthening.

I'm with Melania - I think belly dancing DOES strengthen the core more than we give it credit for. Although it's true it doesn't follow the classic strength-training format of resistance training, it's amazing how much toning results if you actively engage the abs when doing hip work - after all, by playing a role in helping lift the hip, the abs ARE lifting a heavy weight.

One day, after doing some deep probing in my abdomen, my rolfer informed me that my abdominal muscle tone was great. She said most of her clients have toned the surface layer of the abs doing crunches and stuff, but I had strong, consistent muscle tone all the way down into the deeper muscle layers. She considered this to be much healthier than strong surface, weak deep.

I've never had a Pilates class in my life, I NEVER do crunches if I can avoid it, and this conversation occurred at a time when I'd barely started going to yoga, so neither Pilates nor yoga can take credit for the muscle tone she discovered.

Maybe something like this?
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Belly dance isn't primarily a strengthening activity, although that can be one of its benefits. Some core strength is needed to execute the basic moves, and to help build that strength efficiently I often do some core strengthening work based in yoga, Pilates, and calisthenics during the warmup. We do *use* the core muscles throughout class, so there is a strengthening component, and I can focus on the movements and technique that contribute most to that. But I don't want to mislead you: unless someone is very out of shape to begin with, they'll get more core strength benefits from yoga or pilates.

I think bellydance can have real value for cancer survivors -- beyond being a fun light low-impact aerobic activity. What I see all the time (and experienced myself when I first started) was the change in my relationship with my body. Learning to love and enjoy the body when it's betrayed you can be huge - learning new things it can do, movements you didn't know you could make, etc. I watch women go from being self-conscious about their imperfections (focus on what their bodies look like) to being fascinated by their new movements (focus on what their bodies can do) all the time. It's my favorite part of teaching beginners! And some women really benefit from getting in touch with their femininity and feeling attractive -- I imagine this is especially true for women who've lost breast tissue, hair, etc.

I won't be talking about those things of course. I just teach dance and let all that other stuff happen! But I wouldn't want to mislead you by letting you think this is primarily a strengthening activity when it often has greater benefits in other areas -- flexibility, coordination, cardiovascular fitness, relaxation, and general well-being [or whatever you prefer to highlight to end on a positive note].

I'm in editing mode today -- once I get started it's hard to stop! I know this version isn't not shorter, but I've tweaked the emphasis a little to make it more positive. Does it take you too far away from what you wanted to say?

I have the impression that you would like to take advantage of this opportunity, so why not give it a try? You could end your note by suggesting a short course to see if what you're teaching is in line with her goals, and in that course you could do a bit more of the complementary strengthening work you often do anyway. Just a thought. HTH.

shira, what is a rolfer?

Me again, sorry. Just wanted to add that I LOVE your second paragraph. Perfect! (Wish I'd written it. )

And again, sorry -- I read that "two classes" as meaning two sessions of classes, i.e., Tuesday and Thursday for eight weeks or something like that. Don't know if that's right.

Nope, it's two classes total. Let me clarify a little.

The Wellness Center offers a 9-week program for breast cancer survivors. Some weeks are lecture, some are activities (yoga, tai chi and strength training are the usual offerings). This session, the strength training instructor is unavailable so they offered me the two weeks that would usually be hers.

I accepted, and I hope this will lead to more ongoing opportunities to teach at this wellness center (which is specifically for cancer patients).

But I didn't know until today that she actually expects my class to BE the strength training component! I think she's already promoted the program as offering 'strength training,' and then lost that instructor and hired me. Now she wants me to bridge that gap for her so she doesn't have to present it as a change in the program.

I think calling belly dance 'strength training' is misleading and I don't want to participate in it that way.

I just looked at the flyer she sent me to confirm. Yup, people had to register by last week and now she's having to make this change. Of course, the flyer doesn't say 'belly dance' it says 'strength training.' She invited me two weeks ago, but we just solidified all the details and I think she's gotten nervous now that people will complain because it's not what they signed up for.

Should I tell her that I can teach a strength training class (I am a certified group fitness instructor) instead of a bellydance class if that's what she wants? We could always offer bellydance at a later date when people have actually signed up for it.

Ah, makes perfect sense. She should have told you earlier that she expected you to be the strength guru!

Hm, since she's already got you, can't she announce it as a change in the program? It's still good for the body, just with a different focus. I can't imagine it putting anyone off -- on the contrary. Sounds like a great program, and I'd think bellydance would be a nice addition.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Should I tell her that I can teach a strength training class (I am a certified group fitness instructor) instead of a bellydance class if that's what she wants? We could always offer bellydance at a later date when people have actually signed up for it.

You certainly could. Or one class of each? Do strength first and feel out the participants at that class about whether they'd like to try bellydance at the next one?

Seems like the director should appreciate your versatility.

Originally Posted by rakgirl

shira, what is a rolfer?

Rolfing is a type of body work that seeks to remedy problems in your body's alignment. It does this by deep poking and prodding at the level of the fascia, which is a layer of connecting tissue inside the body. I first started having it done 2 years ago, and after living with back pain for 30 years (scoliosis + car accident = lifetime of back pain) I have finally discovered what it is like to have pain-free days.

In addition to making enormous progress with my back pain, rolfing has made a huge difference in problems I've had with one of my knees ever since a Turkish drop went bad.

The formal name for rolfing is "structural integration". The word "rolfing" comes from the fact that the person who invented the technique was a woman named Ida Rolf.

Originally Posted by rakgirl

I feel like it is stregnthening. But you sound like you have a more scientific understanding than i do. but all that arm work and core work I thought were doing just that. especially when you do a whole class of arms or when you slow the movements down. very slow figure eights and mayas and undulations take alot of strength to control. but is this not building strength?

Problem is in two classes they won't have the strength to do a whole class on arms - but you are right, over time you do get stronger. First "class" on veil only uses the veil for less than 30 minutes - each week it gets longer as they build strength in their arms.

Slow, as in controlled using abs, horizontal figure eights (along with absolutely horizontal hip slides) will certainly build strength over time - if done correctly. But in two sessions? She'll be pushing to get them to use the right muscles - let alone build strength!

Shira that sounds great. I too have scoliosis. Did you have your spine fused? I had the top half of mine fused. I wonder how much they could do around all the metal in my back? i'd like to see if there's someone here that offers that. my neck is tightening up right now.

yeah kashmir I didn't notice it was two classes. but then again how much are u going to strengthen even with just two weigt classes? i think it's just to introduce some trainingto them. no one's expecting them to be incredibly strenghthened after two classes.

Originally Posted by rakgirl

Shira that sounds great. I too have scoliosis. Did you have your spine fused? I had the top half of mine fused. I wonder how much they could do around all the metal in my back? i'd like to see if there's someone here that offers that. my neck is tightening up right now.

Rakgirl, my scoliosis was discovered when I was 17, when I was being x-rayed to determine how serious the injury to my back was after a car accident. (The doctors said, and I agree, that the scoliosis would have existed before the accident, we just didn't know about it until the x-rays showed it.) Anyway, they started using words around me like "body cast" and "rod in the back". My mom decided I was old enough to let me make my own decisions, so my response to these suggestions was, "Hell, NO!" So no, I haven't let any doctors intervene in my back in any way. I felt that living with the known pain was preferable to risking the stuff they were proposing to do to me. (And I have never regretted that decision.)

I don't know what a rolfer could do with the part of your spine that's fused, but I've been so grateful for the success I've had that I'd encourage you to consider giving it a try.

As for the stiffening and pain you're feeling, PM me (or, if you prefer to discuss more publicly, start a thread seeking advice on back/neck pain), and I'll share the pain management tips I learned from living with my crazy back for 30 years. I feel like an expert on back pain, I've had so much of it!

Originally Posted by rakgirl

yeah kashmir I didn't notice it was two classes. but then again how much are u going to strengthen even with just two weigt classes? i think it's just to introduce some trainingto them. no one's expecting them to be incredibly strenghthened after two classes.

I think it'd be easier to show someone the correct technique with weights in two classes than with belly dance. With weights they could go home and lift cans of fruit or containers of milk and be doing some good. For most people, going off with two belly dance lessons and "training" could be useless.

Originally Posted by kashmir

I think it'd be easier to show someone the correct technique with weights in two classes than with belly dance. With weights they could go home and lift cans of fruit or containers of milk and be doing some good. For most people, going off with two belly dance lessons and "training" could be useless.

This is my thought process exactly.

My 2 cents...for someone in your fitness category, Lauren, bellydance may not be a heck of a challenge either in strength or cardio but for someone who's been through chemo and/or surgery, it might be.

My roommate went through chemo and she was very weak and tired for months afterward even though she had been quite fit before.

I thought about that, and it's a very good point. I don't know if these are recent survivors or women who might have undergone chemo/surgery 10 years ago. Probably some of each.

I'm just not comfortable with tellling people "come to this strength building class!" and then giving them bellydance. I think the director needs to either offer them the class she promised them or TELL them there's been a change. Passing off bellydance as a 'strengthening class' is just too weird, IMO.

Lauren, have you ever taken one of Suhaila's classes, or workshops? Her beginning classes focus so much on ab, thigh and glute strength that she starts with upper and lower ab crunches, glute squeezes, and squats. Then she takes all those worked out, warm and sore muscles and drills her bdance stuff. You REALLY feel how much you use these muscles for the movements after you've crunched and squatted for 15 minutes!
Her technique transfers so easily into core strength classes!

Coming from the perspective of someone who has danced for years (I started in 1977)...and also been through breast cancer/surgery/chemo/radiation approx. 6 years ago...I would not be a bit leery of offering belly dance class as a class for strength for cancer patients.
1. Belly dance gave me the strength to beat depression.
2. Belly dance gave me the strength to want to rediscover the wonderful things about my body, instead of hating it for letting me down.
3. I could do some form of belly dance (you might not have recognized it as such ) even when I couldn't muster the strength for yoga or pilates. It helped me to get strong enough to do yoga and pilates.
4. I developed lymphadema in my arm and still use belly dance to strenthen and tone my arms especially since I can't do some of the yoga positions any more (my arm won't support me) and lifting weights is prohibited as it makes my arm much worse.
5. Programs for cancer patients/survivors are all about providing hope and this is a great chance to let the ladies try out a new (to them) form of exercise that could potentially change how they feel about themselves and give them a starting point for rebuilding strenth and well being.
If I was invited to teach such a class, I would take my veils with me and teach them a few movements and then maybe some combinations using those movements. If you are not used to moving around while holding a three yard piece of fabric up it can be very tiring-it def. takes upper body and arm strength. Even those in good shape may find themselves challenged! If you don't want to do veil I would teach a few basic movements like snake arms, chest circle, belly in-out, and a hip circle or hip 8 and then link them together in combinations for a simple standing taxim. In either case, I would also teach exercises for strengthening the upper back and exercises for posture as it takes a strong healthy back and abs to maintain good posture--and I believe this would fulfill the requirement given by the director to emphasize strenthening.
It's interesting to me that you posted this thread today as I just got back from spending a week at my sister's taking care of her kids while she took a well deserved vacation. She left gifts for the girls and for me to open-one for each day I was there-and one of the gifts she chose for me was a cancer survivor t-shirt...that says "strength"...g.: Please take into consideration that strength means different things to a cancer survivor and that if they had wanted a yoga or pilates class they would have asked if you could possibly teach that...or if you would fake it for them. And of course let the students know that while belly dance can help them to build strength, for more intense work they might want to check out a class in yoga or pilates.