Thread: GRRRRRRR....quick questions about another teacher

Ok so today my trainer told me that tonight at an off base gym there is a belly dance class starting. I called the gym and they said that she is NEW to the island Im quite excited!!! REALLY hoping to find some one that can help me improve my dance!!!!! So im going tonight at 5!!!

What is the best way to handle it, I dont want to make her an enemy so do i just go not say a word? but she will know after 5 min that im a dancer, and maybe even a teacher which if so i dont want her to think im stealing her students....so do i introduce myself to her? before or after and what do i say? what is the best way?

Yay! I know how excited you must be, you've been wanting a local instructor. OTOH, you must be a little nervous, too, about having new 'competition' when you've just come off a bad experience with another dancer.

I'd introduce myself beforehand so you're totally upfront. No way of knowing if she'll turn out to be the best teacher ever or your worst nightmare, so be cautious & go slowly. Be friendly, but don't gush.

Let her know that you're a teacher yourself, but still learning and you're excited to give her class a try because you've been wishing for a local instructor. But don't talk about anything long-term, or get too carried away. Keep in mind the possibility that you'll decide not to continue in her class for whatever reason, you won't want things to get awkward if that happens.

thats true! things could go bad. I really HOPE she is a good teacher! so Ill just introduce myself in the begging, tell her i teach a few classes, and look forward to her class right?

Hi Annwyn! Yes, I agree that if the opportunity permits, it's good to introduce yourself briefly before class. I'm not so sure about saying, "I'm a teacher too!" in the first 30 seconds of acquaintance is a good idea. Saying it right up-front could come across as aggressive even if you don't mean it that way - it could be construed as, "I'm here to check out the competition." I'm not saying you should keep the fact that you teach a secret, just be thoughtful about when you tell her, how you deliver that tidbit, and be careful of who is around to overhear that conversation.

Do say that you've had x years of classes in the States and you're looking forward to giving hers a try. Be careful about how much enthusiasm you show up front - if all goes well, she will indeed be someone you can learn from, and someone whose personality is compatible with yours. But it's always possible she'll have less dance experience than you, or teach a style you don't care for, or have a personality that clashes with yours.

Yeah, I was worried about that too, I though if i told her at all i was a teacher she could be imediately intimidated, or even think oh dont like her, but after a few min i think she will see that i have a bit of experience then if i dont say somthing she could think im spying on her....UGGG ihate this I was really looking forward to this now im nervous about hurting her feelings.....

Oh, don't be too nervous about hurting her feelings. Just be friendly, welcome her to the island, and say something like, "It'll be fun to be in a class again!" You're right, there's no point in trying to hide the fact that you already know something about this dance. Just be warm and cheerful, and see where it goes. If she's new to town, she may be feeling a little shy, and will probably appreciate a warm welcome.

I've just had a local teacher join my Intermediates class. She was very sweet about it, and came up to me before the class started to say "I'm the teacher in *nearby town* and I hope it's ok to come to this class, and of course, if you're not happy about that, I totally understand".

I think I'd do the same if the boot was on the other foot, it doesn't seem weird to me to say "Hey I'm a teacher too" right from the outset.

So the good news first, SHE ISNT A DIVA!!!! she was quite nice.....NOW THE BAD NEWS.......I dont think she have ever thaught before

Here is what I learned in class today

1. Omis are what we would call a Maya or vertical figure 8 reverse omis are the reverse of that

2. Hips lifts- you put one foot forward, then snap the same hip forward and up in an obnoixious manner, then to drop you reverse it, then you do the 2 moves together, you are supposto to then do it really forward, really high and really fast resulting in your body looking like jello

3. alternating hip lifts dont have a name you just do them

4. hip circles are hip circles and inner hip circles are omis

5. shoulder shimmys your supposto punch with each shoulder then get faster, resulting in again jello

The class was borring, becuse we stood around alot inbetween each move as she was correcting each person, She must have been very nervous, becuse she kept histericaly laughing. She had to refer to notes inbetween each move, so we did shoulder shimmys, then she had to look at notes for the next move which was hip circles, etc....I really think she had good intentions but man oh man this is why we belly dancers get a bad rep, it was bad enough that the girl next to me said " thats it im gonna start my own belly dance class" she had by her own admition NEVER Bellydanced before........Uggg so I dont think ill be going back.......the only thing that bothers me is I work very hard to get the word out about my classes and i have max 10 in each there were 20 people there.....grrrrrr......thoughts suggestions? should i even say something to this girl, she is teaching movements at a gym that really could get some one hurt (the crazy hip lift drop things)......

Oh, that's really too bad. I know how much you wanted a great teacher.

I'm going to advise the impossible. Knowing that you can't control another person, try to set it in your mind this way:

"She has a different vocabulary and technique than I do. We have different styles."

And nothing else. Not better or worse, not experienced or inexperienced, no judgements at all. Stick to this thought in your head, and in your speech to others. Be friendly, but you don't have to be friends. Keep a professional distance. You could invite her and her students to a video night or something, but I'd avoid setting up situations where you dance or teach together.

Since she's a nice person at least, you may find that she's still valuable to you as a friend. After all, you share an interest, and you both teach. That's a lot of common ground. But you can't ever forget that you're also business competitors -- I think it's better to be open about that from the beginning.

So, friendly but cautious. No bad-mouthing (even in your head, if you can control it), no judging. That's my advice.

"She has a different vocabulary and technique than I do. We have different styles."

i think all of us survive professional relationsships with dancers whose dancing we dont particulary like this way... apart from some very close friends/fellow teachers at my school, that's all i'll ever say in public...

You are totaly right, I pretty much just posted here (NO NAMES) and told my hubby. She has total brownie points for being NICE, I dont care how bad a dancer you are if your nice then you are good in my books, now I DONT DO DIVAS....even if they are spectacular. Though I am a bit worried how she is teaching, I wasnt much better my first class either, so i sympathesied with her. I am quite dissapointed, really really really dissapointed maybe in the next 2 years we will get a spectacular teacher......and the search continues.....

Originally Posted by annwyn

Ok so today my trainer told me that tonight at an off base gym there is a belly dance class starting. I called the gym and they said that she is NEW to the island Im quite excited!!! REALLY hoping to find some one that can help me improve my dance!!!!! So im going tonight at 5!!!

What is the best way to handle it, I dont want to make her an enemy so do i just go not say a word? but she will know after 5 min that im a dancer, and maybe even a teacher which if so i dont want her to think im stealing her students....so do i introduce myself to her? before or after and what do i say? what is the best way?

I don't worry about that at all when I take a new class. I just go in like a regular person. If I go in and say I'm a dancer, then I might look like a fool if she does a different style. Of course, if she says "raise your hand if you've taken classes before" - I would raise my hand. Maybe after class, I might mention I'm also a dancer and make an offer of telling her about the local scene.

I doubt she will feel threatened. Would you feel threatened if a dancer came to your classes? Wouldn't you actually feel flattered?

Maybe she was just really nervous because it was her first class ever? It might be worth it to give the class another try - not that she will become what you are looking for in terms of a great teacher all of a sudden, but it might end up just being fun once she can get past her nerves?

Daniela

Im not sure I can, I had the overwhelming urge to help her speak, when she couldnt describe a move, and though I was able to keep my mouth shut I dont know if i can in another class. Not only that people started watching me and not her which made me feel terrible, and I think that much more of that and she would have felt the heat. She had us stand in a circle rather than in 2 lines so it was difficult to see the mirros, and people really started to look across the circle instead of at the top of it, It was really obvious....LIke I said she was REALLY nice and I dont like doing that to nice people, even though it wasnt done intentionaly

Just a few thoughts....
Maybe wait a month or so and try again. She may be going through the new teacher "trail & error" process. If she is as nice as you say, she will be happy to see you whenever you can show up. If someone else asks about her, you can say she is a nice person and you have taken her class before but you both have very different approachs to teaching. Maybe even invite her to attend a class of yours (if you teach)?

The nervousness, difficulty explaining moves and awkward class layout is likely due to her newness to teaching, and will probably improve if she keeps at it. But confusing an ommi and a figure 8 is *horrifying* to me, and I know I personally couldn't stand there and watch her give people misinformation. I know we all don't use the same terminology, but those are two totally different things!

I agree with the others though, that you don't want to go around trashing this person. Did the other students who were watching you find out you were an instructor too? Maybe some of them will now find their way to your class. And like bethsoren mentioned, maybe there's a polite way to invite her to one of your classes?

Originally Posted by laura 2

Did the other students who were watching you find out you were an instructor too? Maybe some of them will now find their way to your class.

But if that happens, then she will have shown up at another teachers' class and stolen her students, and that's supposed to be a Bad Thing.

I forgot I wanted to address what you said about her class drawing so many students. Can you see any differences between her marketing and yours that might help explain the difference? There might be something you can learn from her in that area.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

But if that happens, then she will have shown up at another teachers' class and stolen her students, and that's supposed to be a Bad Thing.

I agree, although still hope it happens for the good of the students.

This is why I personally would follow Shira's advice and contact the instructor first before taking a class with another instructor. I know that annwyn's community is practically non-existent, but I'd still not want to take a class where the instructor knows less than I do. If I inquired about a class and found this to be the case (for example, if they tell me they've danced for less than a couple of years, this is their first time teaching, or they've never taken workshops) I might still try to involve her in the dance scene as a compatriot, but not as my own teacher.

My thoughts...

She probably came to the island, hasn't found any belly dance happenings/events (so far), and decided to start teaching to share her love for the dance. She probably is a first-time teacher, but she sounds like a conscientious one...slowing the class to make certain everyone gets each move, and then unfortunately getting so nervous that she needs to refer to her notes.

Her notes mean that she took the time to make a lesson plan, instead of just winging it. That's worth a few points in my book.

If she has more students than you for her very first class, then her marketing or location is better. That's all there is to it.

If her dancing is ugly or dangerous, that is truly unfortunate, but sniping about the different terms is a low blow. We all know there is no standard vocabulary in belly dance - most movements have two or three different names, and some don't have any name that's widely known.

I've had a relatively new teacher before. At first she made lots of little mistakes, but then she relaxed and became more confident (and possibly began preparing better). Everyone starts somewhere.

I hope you are able to be friendly with the new teacher. Who knows, maybe one day she will decide to take from you?

[QUOTE=da Sage;74455]My thoughts...

She probably came to the island, hasn't found any belly dance happenings/events (so far), and decided to start teaching to share her love for the dance. She probably is a first-time teacher, but she sounds like a conscientious one...slowing the class to make certain everyone gets each move, and then unfortunately getting so nervous that she needs to refer to her notes. [QUOTE]

If that is the case then she didnt look far at all, I if you google or yahoo search Belly dance, or bellydance okinawa I come up on the 1-3rd listing Not only that i have advertised in the local mag, which are posted EVERY where on base. As far as the advertising i think that the gym had a lot to do with it, Im at the comunity center, which doenst advertise at all, I have to do it all. The gym did all her advertising for her which is great it obviously worked....



[QUOTE]

If her dancing is ugly or dangerous, that is truly unfortunate, but sniping about the different terms is a low blow. We all know there is no standard vocabulary in belly dance - most movements have two or three different names, and some don't have any name that's widely known.

[QUOTE]

I woudlnt say er dancing was ugly, she did have really good arms for the few movements we did, but dangerous on those hiplifts YES, I never ment to sound sniping about her terms, but confusing a Maya and reverse maya (aka vertical figure 8s) for an omi is a bit bad, i mean an OMI is an OMI right, expecially after that whole thread on omis.....then again im sure she didnt read that thread....

Like I said before she really is nice, im just not sure how to aproach her, EXPECIALLY NOW. I was never able to tell her I was a teacher, there wasnt time before class and after I had to get out of there before i said something stupid. I have a tendancy to wear my heart on my sleve

Originally Posted by da Sage

My thoughts...
Her notes mean that she took the time to make a lesson plan, instead of just winging it. That's worth a few points in my book.

If she has more students than you for her very first class, then her marketing or location is better. That's all there is to it.

I agree with both of these statements - definitely doesn't make her a great teacher, but it is a good sign that she was prepared.

Also, unfortunately marketing and location often play a huge role in class attendance, and not the skills of the teacher. But...students who show up because of good marketing will not stick around in the long run if they see the teacher isn't worth it (which is what seems like is the case here).

If you're not happy with her teaching style that's one thing, but don't knock another teacher/dancer for different terminology. They vary vastly between regions and instructors. It's different now, with internet and DVD but when I fist started they didn't exist and we learned the names our instructors used and that was pretty much it.

For instance, I learned a "Maya" as a "bicycle". An "Omi" was just a very tight hip circle, and a "figure-8" was called an "infinity" and went the other way. The other figure-8 was a "belly up to the bar". And, with the still huge Turkish influence on the dance, we just didn't do "3/4 shimmy", unless we were doing Ghawazee.

And, do you want to know how many moves I've been taught as a "choo choo"?

We don't have standardization, except perhaps by region. So, don't cut anyone down for that.

Kitty

Originally Posted by kahaz

For instance, I learned a "Maya" as a "bicycle". An "Omi" was just a very tight hip circle, and a "figure-8" was called an "infinity" and went the other way. The other figure-8 was a "belly up to the bar". And, with the still huge Turkish influence on the dance, we just didn't do "3/4 shimmy", unless we were doing Ghawazee.

And, do you want to know how many moves I've been taught as a "choo choo"?

We don't have standardization, except perhaps by region. So, don't cut anyone down for that.

Kitty

Haha, I've often wondered how many moves go by the name "basic Arabic."

Originally Posted by annwyn

Like I said before she really is nice, im just not sure how to aproach her, EXPECIALLY NOW. I was never able to tell her I was a teacher, there wasnt time before class and after I had to get out of there before i said something stupid. I have a tendancy to wear my heart on my sleve

Well, now you have a bit of time to figure out what to say when you see her again. Maybe something along the lines of you really enjoyed meeting her; there aren't many other teachers on the island; and then chat about the high cost of mail-ordering dance videos, or local fabric shopping.

I do understand that we don't have strict terminology in BD. In fact, when I teach, I will often mention this ("This is a figure 8. Some people also call it a maya, or an infinity, but my preferred terminology is figure 8, blah blah blah). But has anyone ever been taught that a figure 8/maya/infinity is also sometimes called an ommi/umi/hip circle? To me, it sounds more like she's confusing the names of two completely different moves, rather than having a difference in terminology.

Originally Posted by laura 2

But has anyone ever been taught that a figure 8/maya/infinity is also sometimes called an ommi/umi/hip circle? To me, it sounds more like she's confusing the names of two completely different moves, rather than having a difference in terminology.

I agree, in that instance it seems that she has misnamed the move. That may be her mistake, or her teacher's mistake.

Brain farts happen. I remember getting a zill handout that stated zills are worn on the thumb and index finger. I think the teacher might have even said "index finger", while she was demonstrating putting the zills on her middle fingers. Everyone in the class looked at each other.w.:, and then followed what the teacher was doing, rather than what she had written. All in all, it was a good class.

Of course, mistakes should be avoided if possible. But I feel a teacher should be judged on her performance over several classes, not just one mistake in one class.

Originally Posted by Nepenthe

I don't worry about that at all when I take a new class. I just go in like a regular person. If I go in and say I'm a dancer, then I might look like a fool if she does a different style. Of course, if she says "raise your hand if you've taken classes before" - I would raise my hand. Maybe after class, I might mention I'm also a dancer and make an offer of telling her about the local scene.

I doubt she will feel threatened. Would you feel threatened if a dancer came to your classes? Wouldn't you actually feel flattered?

Yeah, I don't get the necessity in saying I'm a dancer or instructor. After all all the instructors I know are students too and I've never seen anyone of them qualify their selves when new and coming to class.

Originally Posted by Lucinia

Yeah, I don't get the necessity in saying I'm a dancer or instructor. After all all the instructors I know are students too and I've never seen anyone of them qualify their selves when new and coming to class.

After a long hiatus, I wanted to return to dancing/performing and thought the best place to begin was with a local teacher, who taught a mixed level BD class (read: mostly raw beginners). I was thinking "networking."

As is customary in many BD classes, the instructor asked if anyone had taken lessons before. I raised my hand, but was not about to say in front of her class that I had been a professional dancer.

As it turned out, that foray into a beginner class was the portal to what I am doing now: performing regularly, teaching my own classes (I had been assisting Mom off and on since high school, but was now ready to go solo), joining a pro dance troupe (from which I am now separated, but only due to my own limited availability), entering competitions (and thus helping my younger daughter into the wonderful world of BD), and producing my own events.

This could have turned out much differently, of course, but I just happened to choose that class on that night taught by that teacher, who, unbeknownst to me at the time, had some wonderful connections. BTW, we are still good friends.

I have taken a few classes over the last few years with people who are familiar with me through our local dance scene here; as these are people who possess fabulous reputations and who teach workshops all over the country, my entry into their classes isn't going to throw them off one bit!

OTOH, as I did with my first "getting back into it" teacher, I wouldn't go into a class with someone who didn't know me and announce my 30 years of experience, either!

Deborah

PS: re REFERRING TO NOTES AS A NEW TEACHER: you should'a seen me teaching my first classes; it was very obvious that I had worked hard on a lesson plan, 'cause I used that baby all the time; I referred to it constantly. I still use lesson plans, of course, but I usually only have to look at it once, right after the warm-up. Experience has its benefits.