Thread: Teaching under 18s in the UK

Hi All,

We had an email today from a 13/14 year old girl, who wanted to join classes for the term along with a couple of friends of similar age. In theory, we're happy to teach them as long as they behave well in class, and it is lovely that they are so keen to learn.

However, I'm worried that there are legal/insurance issues with teaching under 18s in the UK? I don't think either of our teachers have been CRB checked, and although we could afford to have the checks done, I have heard that they take a long time to process so we wouldn't be able to teach minors this term. I would feel really bad turning these girls away, as it's the kind of thing that would have really upset me at that age!

Do you accept teenage students, and if so, what (if any) legal issues are involved? Am I right to think that you need to be CRB checked (and would people other than the teachers eg class helpers need to have CRB checks too)? If you do accept them, do many come to classes, and have you had positive experiences of teaching this age group?

Thanks,
Rachael

NADA (www.nada.uk.com)and MADN both have teacher insurance policies but the minimum age is 14.Ours (NADA) covers tribal and fusion dance as well as belly dance and does not have conditions on specific qualifications in dance and is around £40 a year plus membership. I teach in FE but they do not allow under 18s on the course..even so I have to have a CRB check and with under 16s and vulnerable adults it is compulsory so that needs to be done. Teachers and helpers..anyone who comes into contact must have the check done before they start so don't delay. The process is changing I think but you still need to go through it.
I know there are other community dance insurance schemes which may cover children.
We have an informative article in the last issue of NADA mag and follow up in the up-coming issue. There is also inforation on www.orientaldancer.co.uk and on government websites of course. Theis applies to England and Wales and the situation is similar in Scotland

PS My checks were done relatively quickly.

http://www.orientaldancer.co.uk/legalteaching.html

here's a direct link to Mark's article on Orientaldancer.

Thanks, that helps - I know we are insured by a dance group (possibly with MADN) but I don't have the documents myself.

I am still rather confused about the CRB checks as I can't find any guidelines on when they are legally required clearer than
"any form of teaching, training or instruction of children, unless the teaching, training or instruction is merely incidental to teaching, training or instruction of persons who are not children;"
which is really not very clear at all. The orientaldancer article also says that an organisation has to be registered in order to get them done, which we definitely aren't.

I suppose the outcome of this is likely to be that for now, at least, we will not be able to teach young people.

Originally Posted by Serpentina

Thanks, that helps - I know we are insured by a dance group (possibly with MADN) but I don't have the documents myself.

I am still rather confused about the CRB checks as I can't find any guidelines on when they are legally required clearer than
"any form of teaching, training or instruction of children, unless the teaching, training or instruction is merely incidental to teaching, training or instruction of persons who are not children;"
which is really not very clear at all. The orientaldancer article also says that an organisation has to be registered in order to get them done, which we definitely aren't.

I suppose the outcome of this is likely to be that for now, at least, we will not be able to teach young people.

I'm pretty sure that you can't just get a CRB check on yourself, it has to be applied for by an organisation, usually your employer. But I think there are various dance/fitness organisations that will arrange it for you, even when you are self-employed. It's a useful thing to have, if it can be arranged.

At present, for dealing with the girls who are currently trying to join your classes, I'd say you need to get their parents':
- written permission to join the class
- confirmation that this will not interfere with their school/homework arrangements
- acknowledgement that they understand you may not be CRB checked
- acknowledgement that unacceptable behaviour will not be tolerated in class and will result in being barred from class with/with partial/without refund of term fees.

You also need to be certain about your insurance cover, and about how to work with adolescent bodies (they're still growing, and they may need to be treated differently from adult bodies).

At present according to the Home Office website, you can't apply as an individual but I thought when you mentioned teachers that you were a group, an organisation in which case that is how you apply. As a supply teacher and now as a dance teacher in college my employers pay for my check but I do know schoolteachers in similar situations who had to pay for and obtain their own when working on supply for some authorities.

Originally Posted by lizajuk

At present according to the Home Office website, you can't apply as an individual but I thought when you mentioned teachers that you were a group, an organisation in which case that is how you apply. As a supply teacher and now as a dance teacher in college my employers pay for my check but I do know schoolteachers in similar situations who had to pay for and obtain their own when working on supply for some authorities.

We are a group, but it appears from what I have read that groups have to have some kind of special permission to request CRB checks. As we are not currently registered as a charity or anything, I don't have much hope of us being able to request checks through the society. We are definitely going to try to get up to date CRBs for our teachers in any case though.

beafarhana, I think I will do just that - unfortunately I don't know what happened tonight yet (sometimes running things by committee is confusing and stressful!), but we can definitely ask them to bring signed permission from their parents with them next week if they come back.

Serpentina - it might help to be registered with/ a member of any local volunteering or arts umbrella organisations who will probably be registered with the CRB people and can help to process your application for a CRB (they might charge - be warned). Alternatively - the Foundation for Community Dance provide insurance that covers all age groups and low-cost CRB checking (they administer the process for you) - to get this you have to sign up to a fairly stringent code of professional conduct. I don't want to discourage you from using NADA or MOSAIC insurance, because they are *great* schemes, but if you know that you'll regularly be teaching those age groups then it might be worth considering.

There was a recent article in either NADA or MOSAIC magazine (I'm so ashamed I can't remember which!) about having a child protection policy - this is also worth looking into.

Personally, I don't accept anyone under the age of 14 in my classes - this was originally because I was going to get MOSAIC insurance (before I discovered the FCD one), but after a lot of experience teaching groups of young people and mixed age groups I think it's better to have them separate. My experience is that the younger ones have different attention spans and ways and speeds of learning (didn't express that right, hope it made sense). Older students learn a little slower and respond to different metaphors and images when teaching. I don't find that the two groups work well together in the same class. Students under 16 in my classes, I ask to be accompanied by a parent/responsible adult.

Sorry that's all so disjointed, I'm typing in a grabbed 5 minutes so it's all coming out a bit stream of consciousness! Hope it's useful

Originally Posted by deelybopper

Serpentina - it might help to be registered with/ a member of any local volunteering or arts umbrella organisations who will probably be registered with the CRB people and can help to process your application for a CRB (they might charge - be warned). Alternatively - the Foundation for Community Dance provide insurance that covers all age groups and low-cost CRB checking (they administer the process for you) - to get this you have to sign up to a fairly stringent code of professional conduct. I don't want to discourage you from using NADA or MOSAIC insurance, because they are *great* schemes, but if you know that you'll regularly be teaching those age groups then it might be worth considering.

Thanks for this, the FCD thing sounds extremely useful, and I think it would be good for us to have to adhere to a code of conduct. We do have vague future plans of running a children's class, or children's workshops, so suitable insurance and easy CRBs would be great for us.

Originally Posted by deelybopper

to get this you have to sign up to a fairly stringent code of professional conduct.

Do you have any idea where I might find this? I can't find anything about it on their website, and the application form for membership doesn't seem to say anything about it - is it just for the insurance, or the CRB checking?

I've had a squiz around the website and I can't see it either. You sign the code of conduct to become a Professional Individual Member (I'm guessing if you're joining as a group you'd have to do a group one). I don't *think* you can get the insurance without it. I'd give them a ring or email them to find out more about it - it might be worth pointing out it's not obvious on the website...

Originally Posted by deelybopper

I've had a squiz around the website and I can't see it either.

I've got a copy at home, which I can scan, if anyone wants a copy.

Originally Posted by beafarhana

I've got a copy at home, which I can scan, if anyone wants a copy.

It would be great if you could, thanks :) Our insurance is up for renewal in mid-Feb, and I'm certainly considering switching to this if we can deal with the code of conduct.

Thanks for that beafarhana, I've been looking for an electronic version on my pc, but can't find.

My only copy is a paper one. It's odd they don't have an electronic version, but I guess they have a reason for it.

Originally Posted by deelybopper

Serpentina - it might help to be registered with/ a member of any local volunteering or arts umbrella organisations who will probably be registered with the CRB people and can help to process your application for a CRB (they might charge - be warned). Alternatively - the Foundation for Community Dance provide insurance that covers all age groups and low-cost CRB checking (they administer the process for you) - to get this you have to sign up to a fairly stringent code of professional conduct. I don't want to discourage you from using NADA or MOSAIC insurance, because they are *great* schemes, but if you know that you'll regularly be teaching those age groups then it might be worth considering.

There was a recent article in either NADA or MOSAIC magazine (I'm so ashamed I can't remember which!) about having a child protection policy - this is also worth looking into.

Personally, I don't accept anyone under the age of 14 in my classes - this was originally because I was going to get MOSAIC insurance (before I discovered the FCD one), but after a lot of experience teaching groups of young people and mixed age groups I think it's better to have them separate. My experience is that the younger ones have different attention spans and ways and speeds of learning (didn't express that right, hope it made sense). Older students learn a little slower and respond to different metaphors and images when teaching. I don't find that the two groups work well together in the same class. Students under 16 in my classes, I ask to be accompanied by a parent/responsible adult.

Sorry that's all so disjointed, I'm typing in a grabbed 5 minutes so it's all coming out a bit stream of consciousness! Hope it's useful

Issue 44 had a discursive item on teaching youngsters with comment from different teachers. The issue now at the printers, number 45 has an item by Alex Gledhill( who is a member of the Law Society Children Panel) on "How young is too young" where she writes "if you are self-employed you need to arrange a check yourself". She advises you call the bureau and they will tell of organisations local to you who will do this. Hers was obtained from her LEA,
It's worth getting our mags!

Originally Posted by lizajuk

Issue 44 had a discursive item on teaching youngsters with comment from different teachers. The issue now at the printers, number 45 has an item by Alex Gledhill( who is a member of the Law Society Children Panel) on "How young is too young" where she writes "if you are self-employed you need to arrange a check yourself". She advises you call the bureau and they will tell of organisations local to you who will do this. Hers was obtained from her LEA,
It's worth getting our mags!

Hmm, I shall have to subscribe, sounds very useful. I've been vaguely meaning to join MADN for a while but wasn't sure if it would be worth it as a non-professional dancer.

It turns out that our current insurance is a policy for amateur theatre groups, which is apparently the best our committee as of 5 years ago could find - will probably be posting a whole new insurance-related thread soon as the whole process is turning out to be fairly tortuous and confusing. Goodness knows quite what it covers, although it does appear to cover all age groups to some extent. Argh!

Originally Posted by Serpentina

Hmm, I shall have to subscribe, sounds very useful. I've been vaguely meaning to join MADN for a while but wasn't sure if it would be worth it as a non-professional dancer.

It turns out that our current insurance is a policy for amateur theatre groups, which is apparently the best our committee as of 5 years ago could find - will probably be posting a whole new insurance-related thread soon as the whole process is turning out to be fairly tortuous and confusing. Goodness knows quite what it covers, although it does appear to cover all age groups to some extent. Argh!

Website www.nada.uk.com and facebook page Northern Arabic Dance Association and we even accept foreigners like them as lives darn saaf.
If you'd like insurance details email me at jarrett_liz@hotmail.com and I can pit you in touch with the organiser.

Originally Posted by lizajuk

Website www.nada.uk.com and facebook page Northern Arabic Dance Association and we even accept foreigners like them as lives darn saaf.
If you'd like insurance details email me at jarrett_liz@hotmail.com and I can pit you in touch with the organiser.

Thanks, I have sent you an email :-)

Re: FCD, I've now discovered that their code of conduct is at the bottom of their professional individual membership application form (but not on the professional membership leaflet or the main part of their website). It seems very comprehensive, but not as specific as I had imagined - it doesn't seem to require any particular qualifications or documentation.

That's pretty hidden away!

Yes, I think they've designed the professional conduct statement to be 'annoyingly vague' to recognise that people working in the field of 'community dance' don't always have formal accredited qualifications.