Thread: Getting Students to Stare At You

I was recently assisting my teacher in a new class. It was a big group so she asked me to come assist. I basically demonstrated what she was doing from another angle and answered questions for other students when she was ging one-on-one feedback. She had me demonstrate and explain an undulation in my own words since it is sometimes helpful to hear another explain it. One lady who was having a hard time closed her eyes as she was attempting the move and said "I'm trying to get a picture of it." I told her to look at Khalidah or look at me to get a picture. She said she needed to close her eyes to do so.

Later Khalidah told me that she got this kind of reaction alot. I guess culturally we feel weird staring at another woman's body like that and many students just don't do so. They will look at themselves or each other or the mirror but just hardly look at the instructor. I have been trained to stare at the instructors body hard. And i'm completely comfortable with it.

I guess my question is how do you all give students the permission to look at you. Do you run into this problem?..c::

Hmm. I wouldn't say this is fear of looking at you so much as a particular kinaesthetic issue - she needs to internalise the move in some way. I know I have students with dyspraxia who have massive mirror issues and it's SO frustrating sometimes.

I teach mostly with my back to the students, talking into the mirror, and in doing so, I guess, encourage them to look at my back (which is not the same as staring since I can't see them) and my reflection (which is not the same as staring since it's my reflection they're looking at, not me). Does that make sense?

One of the things I do in my classes is somewhat similar to what "we" do in performance. I help to direct their eyes to the correct body part to be focusing on. It ends up being no where near as elegant as directional focus gestures in performance, since I am working hard to get them to focus at *my* corresponding body part. Some examples:

Horizontal rib or hip circles (parallel to floor) - When more emphasis needs to be focused on the side extensions I place my hands in the apostrophe/ framing position at the ribs/hips (like we use at our hips to draw focus there) to focus students' attention on that extension.

Or if there needs to be more attention paid to all four "points" in the circle, as we "draw the line between the dots" to make the circle I *point* to each quadrant (side, front, side, back) sometimes with an "apostrophe hand" and sometimes simply pointing.

I also use my sense of humor to help make my students more comfortable with staring at me as I teach. If you can't laugh at yourself, then who *can* you laugh at?!? ..g.: It seems to do the trick (cause they are all staring at me!!!)...l;,

It sounds like what she was trying to do was look at you, then close her eyes and try to "burn" the image into her brain, sort of like the internalizing that zumarrad was talking about.

It might be that they're looking in the mirror so much because they're trying to see their own progress.

What about, instead of doing the traditional approach with students in rows looking at the mirror, you had them stand in a circle around you and you did the move in several different angles? I was in a workshop where they did it once and it was really helpful. Or you had them turn their back to the mirror for part of the class, which would cause them to focus on how the move looks on you and *feels* on them?

Wow, that's interesting! I don't think I've had that happen before. I agree with zum though that it's probaby a learning style thing as opposed to being afraid to llok at the teacher. She may feel that in order to concentrate on the movement, she needs to block out external stimuli.

ETA: rachelw and I posted at the same time!

Tedi- thats great but also i find that when i put my hands on say my hips to draw their attention to the stretch- they end up putting their hands on their hips. so i have to let them know i'm only putting my hands their to show them what's moving. maybe it will get better once my students are more advanced. right now it's all so new to them.

zummarad-
but the problem is that at both places I teach, there are no mirrors. i prefer that for begginers because i thought it would make them have to look at me. the mirror can be a crutch. but for more advanced dancers i think it's important at times. but i hear what you're saying about her having to internalize it. i never thought about that before.

yeah i posted at the same time too.
there are no mirrors and Khalidah had them in a circle with us two in the middle doing the moves in different directions so that they could see it from several angles.

That is exactly how I learned moves. I would watch my teacher and than close my eyes and do the move and imagine what her body was doing as I was trying to copy with my body.
I HAVE to have a mental image in order to do a move so I close my eyes and get that image to move through my body. After 10 years of dancing I STILL do this.
This lady was probably doing the samething.

I agree it's probably a learning style with her. I know that I can "fake learn" by watching a teacher and having my body just automatically copy what I'm seeing but to get it in my body I need to turn my focus inward for a bit and "imprint" it inside.

Originally Posted by rakgirl

but the problem is that at both places I teach, there are no mirrors. i prefer that for begginers because i thought it would make them have to look at me. the mirror can be a crutch.

I actually find that my beginning students progress much more rapidly in the locations where I have mirrors. I find the biofeedback of doing a movement being able to see the result in your reflection is really benificial. Also, it allows them to see how what they are doing (prior to correction) looks different than what I am doing simoutaneously. As with everything, though, your milage may vary. ..g.:

so they don't end up just staring at themselves?

I even find this in workshops with so called intermediate and advanced dancers who are looking at their own hips and not aware that the instructor has moved on to something else.

Originally Posted by rakgirl

so they don't end up just staring at themselves?

I even find this in workshops with so called intermediate and advanced dancers who are looking at their own hips and not aware that the instructor has moved on to something else.

Well, I do want them to observe what they are doing and give them a moment to self correct before I come around. If they practice at home, I'm not going to be standing in front of them then so I think they need some tools for solo practice.

I don't really have the problem of my beginning students being a move behind me. Before I go on to the next movement, we stop and I talk about it for a brief moment, then scan the room to make sure no one looks utterly confused before starting the drill. At that point, I would likely notice if someone were in their own little world, and get their attention before moving on. To me it seems more like a paying attention to the teacher problem than a mirror issue.

When I'm in a class with mirrors, I mostly look at the teacher, take a quick glance at myself, look at the teacher. Id say 90% is looking at the teacher. If you are in Dahlena's class, and you are NOT looking at her you'll get a verbal reminder ;)

Sounds like an Auditory Learner, who doesn't want the visual stimuli confusing her.

thanks guys this really helps. i tend to think people think like me. i'll keep in mind that people have different learning styles and give them space to do what they need to.

Well I'm dyslexic and some times my Instructor makes to much of an effort trying to teach the move? I guess.

Example, we were doing a new drill. 8 count measure consisted of interior hip cirlces to the left while turning to the right for the first four counts, walking backwards for the other four counts and then reversing the entire process for the next measure and so forth. I have difficulties with left and right directions until I can process it and doing counter and counter clock wise movements at the same time takes me time to register it in my brain. Anyway

My brain was having difficulty registering it and I just needed to observe while the others were drilling. Some times closing my eyes and visualizing my body doing it. When I tried to just observe and process the exercise she kept trying to explain it in different terms would not let me process it because I was not doing it or trying to do the move. It got to the point where she wasn't listening and so intent that I learn it there and then. I had to bluntly and very firmly say, Leave me alone!!!!! let me process it my way.

The next day I did a little more processing at home and I could do the drill without any problems. Sometimes we students just need a little time to go through our own personal learning style.

Originally Posted by zumarrad

Hmm. I wouldn't say this is fear of looking at you so much as a particular kinaesthetic issue - she needs to internalise the move in some way.

Not often, but sometimes I do this too. I play the "video" of what I saw rather than watch. This eliminates unnecessary stuff (background, other people, other body parts) and also uses the "pure/perfect" move rather than one that might change next time.

I actually think that it's a good thing if people don't stare at the teacher all the time. After all, there will be a moment when the teacher is not there anymore!

In my Bharata Natyam class, our teacher sits and beats the rhythms most of the time. She only shows movements a few times and then lets us do them and gives corrections. We only use the mirror 10 % of the time. So most of the time we are left with ourselves and having to feel our bodies.

This is an age old way of teaching coming from a time where there were no mirrors and a teacher could not dance and watch at the same time.
I also do it when I teach Oriental dance. As soon as I think the students got at least the basic idea of a movement/combination, I turn around and watch them. I want them to be able to dance without me. Of course I will go back to showing them how it's done again, but I think it's important to just let them try for themselves.

Oh and yes, I have had moments when I needed to close my eyes for a movement so I could concentrate on it.

MEISSOUN

I have the opposite problem Rakgirl! I can get beginning students to look at me, but I can't get them to look at themselves!! I give reminders like "make sure your feet are no wider than hip width apart," while looking at the too-wide stance ladies. They just stand there and look back at me, not even checking where their own feet are. Same goes for reminding them to bend or straighten their knees, to shift weight, arm positions, etc.

I've found a "look at me, then look at YOU" approach helps them. Some have said they're too self-conscious to watch themselves dance and I understand that, but how will you know you're doing it right if you don't look at yourself as well as the teacher for comparison?

Originally Posted by mihri

I have the opposite problem Rakgirl! I can get beginning students to look at me, but I can't get them to look at themselves!! I give reminders like "make sure your feet are no wider than hip width apart," while looking at the too-wide stance ladies. They just stand there and look back at me, not even checking where their own feet are. Same goes for reminding them to bend or straighten their knees, to shift weight, arm positions, etc.

I've found a "look at me, then look at YOU" approach helps them. Some have said they're too self-conscious to watch themselves dance and I understand that, but how will you know you're doing it right if you don't look at yourself as well as the teacher for comparison?

I guess for that my thought is that you ought to be able to feel what your body is doing. i like to remind them to not look at their feet and would think that that could fee how far shoulder width is. or if their arms are bent and i say straighten them, i would think they could feel the difference between bent and straight. but i guess not. wow teaching really takes a whole different set of skills than dancing.

Originally Posted by rakgirl

I guess for that my thought is that you ought to be able to feel what your body is doing. i like to remind them to not look at their feet and would think that that could fee how far shoulder width is. or if their arms are bent and i say straighten them, i would think they could feel the difference between bent and straight. but i guess not. wow teaching really takes a whole different set of skills than dancing.

So many students, when they first start out as beginners, and even sometimes long after that, are very out of touch with their bodies, they just don't realise what they're doing. They may think they're doing exactly what you're telling them, because their body just doesn't give them the feedback that they aren't. It's hard for us, who have become very body-conscious, to remember what that was like.

that's true bea. i forget that alot of these women don't seem to even know where their body parts are or how to control them. i find that especially alot of middle aged and older Black women have spent a life time tying down their hips and butts and getting them not to jiggle. even tho we celebrate big butts, we don't want it jiggling around outside because that signals a loose woman. so it's hard when i'm trying to teach them to let the flesh be free to wiggle jiggle, flop, and bounce. One lady came to my class wearing a tight underwire bra and a sportsbra on tip of that. Another came in a girdle. i had to explain to them how it's going to be more difficult when wearing restrictive clothing like that.
Maybe i should start doing underwear checks.

There are three basic learning channels -- visual, auditory and kinesthetic. Everyone learns at least a little through each channel, so it's good for everyone if you use all three when you teach, but most people have a dominant learning style.

Visual learners learn by watching you, and will want the visual feedback of the mirror when they feel comfortable looking into it. They're often the easest to teach. They also respond well to visual imagery, like tracing an imaginary shape with the hips or trying to create a snakelike action through their arms.

Auditory learners (that's me!) need a verbal breakdown. I CANNOT just look at you and make my body do what yours is doing. You have to verbalize it for me. Looking at you or the mirror is my reinforcement that I'm getting it. Words, words, words.

Kinesthetic learners learn by feeling/touching/doing. Sounds like your student is one of these. Kinesthetic learners -- once you know them well enough for physical contact -- do extremely well with physical correction. Don't tell them to straighten their arm, touch their forearm and lightly move it into place. Guide them in movements, or let them put their hands on you to feel what you're doing and which muscles are working. You use kinesthetic techniques with everyone when you describe what a move feels like (you're rolling a ball around inside your pelvis, you're pulling your arms through peanut butter...) or have them put their hands on their own body to ensure that their tailbone is pointing downards or that their hips are moving the way you want them.


Teaching IS a completely different skill set than dancing. That's why the best dancers aren't always the best teachers, and vice versa. I'm a really good teacher and a so-so dancer, myself. I have to push myself always to try to become a better dancer so I can take my students to new heights!

I sometimes have to close my eyes when I learn something. It is to reduce the outside distraction and just feel it in my body.
Sometimes I also have to go slower than the teacher - and thereby stop watching her - to get the movement into my body.
Sometimes I need to stare at the mirror to see what I'm doing and sometimes I need to not look at the mirror.
I think people have correctly said here that everyone has their own learning style and might need to do different things to help themselves learn. It's good when people know what they need. It's harder when someone isn't getting it and they don't know what they need to get it.

Originally Posted by rakgirl

that's true bea. i forget that alot of these women don't seem to even know where their body parts are or how to control them.

You're so exactly right! It's called 'proprioception' the perception of where your body is in space. Mine has improved SO much since I started dancing. I used to spill things (they called me 'spiller') and always had bruises on my legs from bumping into things. I'm so much less clumsy now, I assume I've learned some proprioception skills from dance & yoga.

i find that especially alot of middle aged and older Black women have spent a life time tying down their hips and butts and getting them not to jiggle.

I deal with that, too. What I've learned to do (and I think I got it here on Bhuz) is to begin the shimmy, then stop to talk about it. I say "A lot of women freak out when they feel everything start jiggling around back there." (everyone laughs & nods) Remember, that's SUPPOSED to happen. Make it your goal to jiggle the flesh on the back of your thighs. The more extra-juicy goodness you've got back there, the easier this'll be!"

They go to town after that! Wish I could remember who I learned that pearl of wisdom from.

Maybe i should start doing underwear checks.

..l;,

Great post, Lauren! Like you, I think I'm a better teacher than dancer. My professional background prior to dance was in software and procedural training, and that's where I learned that the key to teaching is having multiple methods/explanations for different types of learners. Per advice from Shira, I try to have at least one explanation/example, for each of the three categories above, for each move I teach.

Rakgirl, when I started teaching, the lack of people's connection to their body shocked me too. It's actually been one of the hardest things for me to overcome with students, though I am getting better and better at it all the time. I was talking to a ballroom teacher a few weeks ago and she said she finds the same thing in her classes; a lot of people just shuffle through life with no thought whatsoever to what their body is doing.

Last night in class, it took me 10 minutes to teach a student how to do a 3-step or chaine turn - instead of staying in the same direction, she kept reversing the last step (so instead of going right-right-right she was doing righ-right-left). No matter how many times I showed/explained the correct way to do it, she just could not get it. I finally got her to do it once or twice by following her and guiding her leg with my hands to start her in the correct direction for the last part of the turn. But even after all of that, she could not do it correctly without my physical guidance. I think she did understand what she needed to do, but simply could not get her body to obey her brain's command.

not being able to obey the brain's command is the story of my life!

Sometimes I wish teachers could undesrtand that it takes students a while to execute something, even if they get it mentally, they can see what your'e doing, they could tell you what they are supposed to be doing, could draw a picture, recognize it on a video - but their bodies just aren't cooperating.

It's when my body misbehaves like this that I feel like a big no-talent - like anyone who was meant to be a dancer can just hear the instruction and immediately do it. But it does take most people at least a few repetitions to get something.

One lady came to my class wearing a tight underwire bra and a sportsbra on tip of that.

Well, that's pretty much what I wear all the time in classes, if you count a very firm crop top as a sports bra (and you certainly can get sports bras that are to all intents and purposes crop tops). To be fair, if you have a large bust, you are going to be more comfortable with it strapped in, and having the breasts contained doesn't make it any more difficult to dance. Big boobs left loose *hurt*.

I agree about the girdle though.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

You're so exactly right! It's called 'proprioception' the perception of where your body is in space. Mine has improved SO much since I started dancing. I used to spill things (they called me 'spiller') and always had bruises on my legs from bumping into things. I'm so much less clumsy now, I assume I've learned some proprioception skills from dance & yoga.

..l;,

funny thing is that even tho people tell me how graceful i am all the time, i still bump into things constantly. i bump into the corner of walls with my shoulder or my hip. i bump into tables with my thigh, and other lower things with my shin. but i never fall, trip or bump anyone dancing tho.

I never thought about this before, because I usually tell my students to watch me or themselves only (no looking at the floor or zoning out) but actually, if you think about it...some of them might need a moment to disengage. There's a lot going on in the mind and body of a beginner - it's pretty intense. We see it in their faces, in the drooping arms or stressy hands, or paniced expression. While I still won't condone looking at the floor (might be a posture issue), I think it may be ok to close your eyes for a moment to cut some of the sensory stimuli and could help with focus.

I also encourage them to take a deep breath, when they are getting frustrated, and also use humor, because both will help brain functioning.