Thread: Naming moves

My students are having a very hard time distinguishing between the 4 basic figure 8 movements. They asked me to come up with 'names' for each one to help them out. Normally when doing drills I'll refer to them the same way all the teachers in the area do, such as: Upward Vertical figure eight, Downward Vertical figure eight, Forward horizontal figure eight, and backward horizontal figure eight.
I can understand how the names can get confusing, they were to me when learning and I find myself with many confused students even though each time I explain and breakdown the movement and demonstrate. All I hear is
"Wait, which one are we doing?", "what's this one called? I can never remember!"
I think shorter names will do them some good. Like I know the downward vertical fig. eight is often called a "maya". And I think if I were to say "maya" the movement would click in their head faster then "downward vertical figure eight". Are there names for the other ones already that I've just never heard? Or should I make up my own and would that be confusing if they take future classes with other teachers in the area?

I've been taught that the opposite move to a Maya is a Cobra, so that's two out of the 4, but I've never heard "names" for the horizontal 8's, just forward and back.

I am the comma queen.

My mentor used the following terms. They might work for you:

Maya = vertical Fig 8 up to down
Sway = vertical Fig 8 down to up
Out 8 = horizontal fig 8 front to back
In 8 = horizontal fig 8 back to front

I think in ATS vocabulary they have a "Taqsim" -- which I thought was their name for the Sway. Yes/no?

I teach it in a grouping of 3. Vertical figure 8, Maya and Hortizontal figure 8 (we just reverse the hortz direction, but I don't give it a new name..still a hortz figure 8)

Nilaja

Horizontal figure 8 front to back
Horizontal figure 8 back to front
Vertical figure 8 up & in
Vertical figure 8 up & out
Vertical figure 8 down & out
(I don't use the Vertical figure 8 down & in so much)

I personally call the up and over figure 8's "hawaiin hips" b/c that's one of the main movements in Hawaiin dance. It's the opposite of the Maya.

As far as the horizontal 8's go, I would personally refer to them as forward 8's and backward 8's. If you take the word horizontal out it frees the mind to focus on the figure 8. It's weird how that works.

Just my suggestions.

forward fig 8

backwards fig. 8

maya

sway

that's all i ever heard them called until my recent instructor & she calls it taqsim & is tribal. tina

i think "the sway", is what we call a "weight change".

I've not heard any one else refer to the horizontal ones as "out" and "in", but that is a terminology I have been using in my teaching for quite some time. Out is when the movement moves out of your er... female center, and in is when the movement comes into your "female" center. ..g.:

[QUOTE=aziyade;76985]My mentor used the following terms. They might work for you:
<snip>
Out 8 = horizontal fig 8 front to back
In 8 = horizontal fig 8 back to front
QUOTE]

Forward fig 8 (back to front)
Backward fig 8 (front to back)
Vertical 8 (up and over, aka what tribal dancers call taqsim)
Maya (over and down)
Raqia's Maya (maya on the diagonal on one hip; don't tend to do both but I think the "both" version is what we called the wobbly plate)
V8 aka beledi push (vertical 8 on the diagonal, on both sides.)

Originally Posted by aziyade

I think in ATS vocabulary they have a "Taqsim" -- which I thought was their name for the Sway. Yes/no?

Having had to explain that the word "taqsim" is not a vertical hip infinity starting at the bottom coming up and in, but part of the music (and dance) that is mostly improvisational, can be with or without metered rhythm.

Here from wikipedia:

Taqsim is the term of the first movement in Islamic music, which is a melodic improvisation style that could be metric or non-metric. The taqsim is usually performed by a solo voice or on a solo instrument yet sometimes the soloist can be backed by a percussionist or an instrumentalist playing a drone on the tonic of the maqam.

It is widely seen as an art of improvisation in a specific maqam, but usually modulation to other maqams are present in a taqsim."

Tedi -- we're from southern Indiana, so given our proximity, it's entirely probably that my mentor heard the terms from you!! :)

[quote=TediThomas;77011]I've not heard any one else refer to the horizontal ones as "out" and "in", but that is a terminology I have been using in my teaching for quite some time. Out is when the movement moves out of your er... female center, and in is when the movement comes into your "female" center. ..g.:

Originally Posted by aziyade

My mentor used the following terms. They might work for you:
<snip>
Out 8 = horizontal fig 8 front to back
In 8 = horizontal fig 8 back to front
QUOTE]

edited to add:

NOT being argumentative, although it seems like it. I'm just citing my source.

But in the end, you're right. It's still an incorrect use of the term.


yeah, but I THINK they get this term from Jamila Salimpour, who in her book describes this "sway" as a basic step in the Taqsim section (of what would presumably be the 5-part routine, I guess). She has a chapter of "Taqsim Movements" and they're all the slow and gooshy stuff.

From "Basic Step in Taqsim Section" it's an easy jump to "Taqsim" being used to refer to that step. I know -- everybody complains about it, but it's already a part of the vocabulary, incorrect or not. Just like "triplet" when referring to the gallopy 123 finger cymbal pattern. Musically it's incorrect, but you'll still see it everywhere.

Originally Posted by jaziri

Having had to explain that the word "taqsim" is not a vertical hip infinity starting at the bottom coming up and in, but part of the music (and dance) that is mostly improvisational, can be with or without metered rhythm.

Here from wikipedia:

Taqsim is the term of the first movement in Islamic music, which is a melodic improvisation style that could be metric or non-metric. The taqsim is usually performed by a solo voice or on a solo instrument yet sometimes the soloist can be backed by a percussionist or an instrumentalist playing a drone on the tonic of the maqam.

It is widely seen as an art of improvisation in a specific maqam, but usually modulation to other maqams are present in a taqsim."

Originally Posted by aziyade

I know -- everybody complains about it, but it's already a part of the vocabulary, incorrect or not. Just like "triplet" when referring to the gallopy 123 finger cymbal pattern. Musically it's incorrect, but you'll still see it everywhere.

You're right, you see it everywhere, but that doesn't stop me from stepping in and saying it's an incorrect way to use the terminology that was perpetrated by a teacher who was uneducated. People who misuse terms can't be faulted for parroting what they heard from uneducated teachers, but I believe in offering them correct information to replace it.

(Do I need to give you my credentials now? )

And who are you, exactly??

LOL.

Sorry -- and you're right, we should correct misinformation when we see it. Man, I am in the WORST and most argumentative mood today!! I apologize to everybody!!! I think it's the other thread.

I AM SORRY!!!!!!! And I'm shutting up now. :)

Originally Posted by *Shira*

You're right, you see it everywhere, but that doesn't stop me from stepping in and saying it's an incorrect way to use the terminology that was perpetrated by a teacher who was uneducated. People who misuse terms can't be faulted for parroting what they heard from uneducated teachers, but I believe in offering them correct information to replace it.

(Do I need to give you my credentials now? )

"Maya" is fairly common, but I was taught it as "bicycle" which I really like because that's the motion!

I call the "Up" a "hip lift sway"

And Aunt Rocky calls the horizontals "Infinity" which really makes sense.

Kitty

Originally Posted by aziyade

yeah, but I THINK they get this term from Jamila Salimpour, who in her book describes this "sway" as a basic step in the Taqsim section (of what would presumably be the 5-part routine, I guess). She has a chapter of "Taqsim Movements" and they're all the slow and gooshy stuff.

From "Basic Step in Taqsim Section" it's an easy jump to "Taqsim" being used to refer to that step. I know -- everybody complains about it, but it's already a part of the vocabulary, incorrect or not. Just like "triplet" when referring to the gallopy 123 finger cymbal pattern. Musically it's incorrect, but you'll still see it everywhere.

That could be where it came from, but is incorrect and we should be working on correcting this and similar stuff. Yes language and dance evolves, but just because it is common usage doesn't mean it is right and we should just let it be. Educating people is part of what we should be doing. Letting people know what the term really means, figuring out how to be more accurate.

Now, if I could get "danse oriental" or raqs sharqi be as accepted/understood as the great misnomer "belly dance". Hmmm, how about a forum name "MisNomer"?

You are absolutely right -- I didn't mean to sound argumentative.

well if you want to get picky balady, baladi isn't correct either. i tell my students back in the day there were some translation eff ups & outa that we use terms today that aren't correct but excepted. tina

[quote=TediThomas;77011]I've not heard any one else refer to the horizontal ones as "out" and "in", but that is a terminology I have been using in my teaching for quite some time. Out is when the movement moves out of your er... female center, and in is when the movement comes into your "female" center. ..g.:

Originally Posted by aziyade

My mentor used the following terms. They might work for you:
<snip>
Out 8 = horizontal fig 8 front to back
In 8 = horizontal fig 8 back to front
QUOTE]

I use "in" and "out" in my classes as well. I approach it from the perspective of how the energy of the movement feels - out (back horiz. fig 8's) seem to be directing the energy out and away from your center whereas in (forward horiz. fig 8's) are pulling the energy in and towards your center.

I know my students who were confused on the back vs. forward understood the difference better when I put things this way.

But, I tend to talk alot about the energy of movements and things like that in class. Guess I'm kinda new-agey in that respect. Hee! ,r:;

Lots of ideas! Thanks everyone!

My instructors used the "maya" and "sway" for the vertical figure 8s as previously mentioned, but they called the backwards horizontal an "Egyptian" figure 8 and the forward one a "Turkish" figure 8. I have no idea why now that I think about it... that was just what all my instructors in South FL called them, if they called them anything at all.

Originally Posted by miriamgamal

they called the backwards horizontal an "Egyptian" figure 8 and the forward one a "Turkish" figure 8. I have no idea why now that I think about it.

Someone - who I had respect for - but cannot remember their name ,r:; - recently said the "native" horizontal figure 8 in Egypt is a backwards one. The forwards one is not level like the "western" one, but has more of a drop associated with it. Possibly that could explain calling the backwards one an "Egyptian".

Originally Posted by tattood1

forward fig 8

backwards fig. 8

maya

sway

tina

That's what my Mom's been callin' 'em for 40 years now . . .

Deborah

The names I used -- which my students have no probs with -- are horizontal front to back figure 8 (abbrieviated in choreographies as FTB 8); horizontal back to front figure 8 (BTF 8); vertical figure 8 (V8); and Maya.

I may be alone in this opinion, but I like the fact that our dance is so varied, with different names for steps and movements, depending on who the teacher is. I would hate to have our expressive and inventive dance form be as codified as ballet.

I always teach 6 different fig 8's for the hips...

* forwards fig 8 - parallel to the floor (hips slide to front corner, swivel, slide to front corner, swivel...)

* backwards fig 8 - to the floor, opposite direction (slide to back corner)

* maya - verticle (up, out, down, in), don't lift heels!

* sepentine - opposite of maya (down, out, up, in)
- same move as a rakia but using one hip only to travel

* bicycle forwards - like lifting your butt cheek up and over a fence (back corner, up, into center, down) Looks like fast bicycle peddling - a twisted fig 8 shape

* bicycle backwards - opposite motion (up, back corner, down, in)

Originally Posted by bintbeled

I may be alone in this opinion, but I like the fact that our dance is so varied, with different names for steps and movements, depending on who the teacher is. I would hate to have our expressive and inventive dance form be as codified as ballet.

Nope -- at least not completely.

Not only are the names sometimes vastly different, but the step breakdowns are often a bit different two. An example might the be Jewel Of The Nile step -- of which I have 5 different, although all similar in one way or another, breakdowns, from 5 different well-known dancers.

Who gets to choose which name/breakdown is correct? Is Shareen's Jewel more correct than Jillina's? Is Jillina's more correct that Keti's or Sahra's or Hadia's? Is the "sway" not the same movement I call it a "standard vertical 8" I love finding different names for steps. I love finding variations on steps, too. Variety is the spice . . .

Ack! Terminology is such a pain in the butt. :-P Good luck girl, I have zero tips for you on that one except maybe... Teach Advanced BD classes? *chuckles* If you don't know the terminology by the time your an advanced student go stand in the corner with books on your lap and watch the rest of the class!

Wickedly Yours,
~*Gen*~

Okay, I'm not reading all these posts what I've learned.

Tribal Called taxsim is vertical fig 8 right hip goes down out up then slide hips to left left hip now going down out and up slide hips to right as right hip goes down out up.

Tribal called maya is vertical fig 8 right hip goes up out and down slide hips to left left hip goes up out down slide hips to right as right hip goes up out down.