Thread: Frustrating student situation

I have a frustrating situation with a former student that I am not sure how to handle. I have a former student in her 50's who took beginner classes for about 6-8 months two years ago when I first started teaching. She learned a basic beginner choreography and a few moves. She is now teaching classes at the local senior center and another one at the edge of town. I am the only professional in my town and the two adjecnt towns. Nashville is the next closest town and it has several amazing professionals, but its about 50 miles away from me.

*On a side note: There is another instructor here who has been teaching for about 6-7 years but I (and pretty much everyone else) consider her at an intermediate level at best. She is now taking advanced classes and is becoming aware of her level. She is a part of our bellydance community/family and we all love her, its just known that she can't fill in for gigs or classes.*

With my former student I don't mind her teaching at the senior center because the class participants are 50+ and have no intentions of performing or doing anything but having fun moving. While I would them to be taught correctly they cannot pay me to teach classes and I am at a place that I cannot afford to do classes for free right now. But with the other class she is teaching people and they are growng. I love that bellydance is growng, but I know her technique even in class was very poor and she hasn't taken classes in at least a year and a half. It really bothers me when people teach bellydance when they aren't even at an intermediate level or even have a semi-full dance vocabulary. I don't know what to say or if I should say anything or how I should approach it. I don't want to be a diva, but I don't want a bunch of "bellydancers" running around with no clue what they are doing and thinking that they are fantastic. I'm really lost as to what to do and very frustrated. Any advice?

Say the serenity prayer and press on. You have no control over this sitution.

Yes. Do nothing. Say nothing. People who really want to learn will recognize her limited skills and move on.

Sadly, your best bet is to do nothing. It's likely that you will be viewed as the bad guy: you're jealous of her, you're trying to keep her down, you're too negative, etc. There are several sub-standard teachers in my town, too, as there are almost everywhere. When I'm asked about them I just say that I'm not familiar with their teaching. Hopefully students who take from both of you will quickly see the difference and drop her class. It sucks and doesn't feel fair, but even though you are earnestly worried about her ability to teach it may not be perceived that way.

You could try and approach her. Heaven knows I've done that kind of thing before, but it may have very little result and you may come off looking like the bad guy. Depending on your relationship with this former student and what you do or say well, it can have varying results. My best results have been taking somebody out to lunch and then just gently talking to them about stuff. That way you can read their body language and know when your good advice will have no positive effect or when you might be getting through.

That being said, you can also make an effort to instill from the very beginning your code of ethics and values, teaching your students to respect our dance form as much as you do. Like make up a class code and have everybody read and sign it in acknowledgement when they are filling out their registration forms. That way if another student becomes a 6 month wonder, then you will know you did your absolute best to prevent it.

Here are my current class ethics and etiquette guidelines: http://www.shemsdance.com/student-re...or-guidelines/

maybe I'll edit it to make a section for teachers? A few of my current students already are instructors, but nobody that I would object to teaching (that I know of...)

I've been dancing for less than a year & less than 6 months seriously. I'm 50 yrs. old but I still want to learn to bd correctly & not just throwing everything around.

If she wants to jump out there & teach, then let her. You can't do anything about that. If there are serious students out there, they will find you. They will research & find that she is not only very inexperienced but not very good. I've gone thru about 5 teachers before I hit the jackpot. There was always something missing. Some teachers move too fast, not giving you time to learn the moves correctly. And at one studio, I simply didn't feel welcome because I wasn't a teeny bopper. What I have now found is to simply let your experience, knowledge, technique & skill speak for itself. The students will find you. Also give your students your background, how long it took you to get to where you are, find out what their goals are. Are they just wanting to bounce around & have fun or are they serious about becoming a dancer?

Don't let another worry furrow your brow with this other "teacher". If students ask about her, then give your opinion but also tell them to research other people, DVDs & even give them names of people you respect.

In the absence of any sort of requirements for certification (either from the studios that hire us or from our own self-policing), there is no guarantee that any dancer is ever really competent to teach. There are teachers out there who have been dancing for decades and still deserve to be gonged, hauled off the stage with a vaudeville hook, pelted with rotten tomatoes, and subjected to every other manner of performer disgracing because they don't know what they are doing and teach wrong, and even physically dangerous, information. Be that as it may, there are very few dancers capable of teaching anyone when they've had less than a year experience themselves, much less teaching special-needs students.

It is interesting how much the responses vary here from Andalee's older thread http://www.bhuz.com/showthread.php/2...aching-seniors where people were advocating a stronger stance against the offending teacher. Even if these students have no intention of going on to a professional career, members of a senior center may be as young as their fifties, with many years ahead of them to potentially pursue their new hobby. (I've been to workshops with hobbyist dancers in their 70's.) They deserve quality instruction, regardless of their marketability. At a minimum, they deserve a teacher who has the awareness to address how their physical concerns differ from a class of teenagers.

I don't know if your student approached the center of if the center approached her. Someone came up to me when I had been dancing just over a year and solicited me to teach at the local senior center. When I explained that I wasn't qualified with so little experience, the person said that it didn't matter, because "...the old gals are so bored with doing the same thing that they just want to try something new." He was pretty persistent about how I didn't have to be very good to be useful to them, and it's easy to see how someone with less conscience and/or more stars in her eyes could have been lured into the job. I hope your student at least had the forethought to inquire about whether she needs to carry her own liability insurance.

I think, haven't we pretty much ALL been in this situation? Under-educated student goes rogue and we can't figure out what to do about it? The best advice I was given is to be true to YOUR brand, set the bar very high for YOUR performances and classes, and try to be a lot more visible in your community.

That said, teaching beginning seniors ANY kind of fitness program has some very serious health and safety concerns. The programming structure needs to be modifiable for people with degenerative conditions like osteoarthritis or disk disease, and that kind of education isn't something you pick up in normal dance classes. I would encourage any teacher working with "special populations" that have unique physical needs to get some actual TRAINING in teaching fitness, and it scares me that this lady doesn't seem to have that.

I agree with the non-doing, though I have no idea what I might've posted in the previous thread! I'm a pisces after all

But every teacher (well, almost) will have students who love her class and those who don't; regardless of how well informed she is or how well she teaches, etc. I think it's best for your mental health to stay out of the situation and let your former student do her thing even though it may be wrong. Otherwise you'll get too invested in the outcome and that takes away from you putting your energy into YOUR thing. Does that make sense?

Originally Posted by aziyade

I think, haven't we pretty much ALL been in this situation? Under-educated student goes rogue and we can't figure out what to do about it? The best advice I was given is to be true to YOUR brand, set the bar very high for YOUR performances and classes, and try to be a lot more visible in your community.

Originally Posted by aziyade

I think, haven't we pretty much ALL been in this situation? Under-educated student goes rogue and we can't figure out what to do about it? The best advice I was given is to be true to YOUR brand, set the bar very high for YOUR performances and classes, and try to be a lot more visible in your community.

That said, teaching beginning seniors ANY kind of fitness program has some very serious health and safety concerns. The programming structure needs to be modifiable for people with degenerative conditions like osteoarthritis or disk disease, and that kind of education isn't something you pick up in normal dance classes. I would encourage any teacher working with "special populations" that have unique physical needs to get some actual TRAINING in teaching fitness, and it scares me that this lady doesn't seem to have that.

Awesome thoughts Aziyade :) my first teacher gave me a preview of this when I was still in my baby stages and soaking in all her good advice and thoughts on the business etc. She described a similar situation to yours and to echo what some of the other ladies have said: you get what you pay for. Or in this case, don't pay for. Keep the bar raised and people will notice. I do share Aziyade's concern about teaching the 50+ crowd, if this woman has no certification or understanding (besides her own experience), she could potentially do more damage then good. However, I think your hands are tied in terms of approaching her or the center about it.

Go with the flow but who knows you might get a lucky occasion to speak to her about it and then I wouldn't hestiate to state your concerns (while still being constructive ;)

Good luck!

This is a general comment directed at ALL teachers, and it is NOT intended to insinuate anything about AshleyArin even though her post started this thread - after all, I've never seen her teach and have no idea what occurs in her classroom!

I think SOME belly dance teachers behave in the classroom in ways that make students think they know more than they actually do. Now, there will ALWAYS be deluded students who would feel like experts no matter what their teacher does, so please don't think I'm saying it's always the teacher's fault when this happens, but sometimes classroom content is part of the problem.

For example:

• If a teacher "dumbs down" her music choices to utilize Western music because she doesn't think her beginners are capable of appreciating Middle Eastern, then she tacitly sends the message that you don't need to know anything about Middle Eastern music in order to teach belly dance.
• If a teacher doesn't mention Middle Eastern song titles, which countries they're from, what the song is about, who the artist was, then she's tacitly sending a message that you don't need to know anything about Middle Eastern music in order to teach belly dance. (I'm not saying it's necessary to spend a lot of time lecturing, but in a one-hour class I try to share this information about at least one of the songs. It doesn't take long to say during a figure 8 drill, "This is a Turkish folk song. It's title means One Bit of Jasmine, and it's a sad song about lost love.")
• If the first 6 weeks of class are called "Beginner" and the next 6 weeks are called "Intermediate" and the next "Advanced", then after 18 weeks (less than 5 months), a student will believe she is an advanced dancer, because that's what her class is called.
• If the beginner class consists solely of teach-a-move-and-drill-it, then students will think that drilling a catalog of moves is all it takes to teach belly dance. Even at the beginner level, it's good for teachers to provide guidance in putting moves together into combinations, thinking about which muscles are producing the moves, relating movement to the music, and incorporating emotional expression. Again, I fully realize there are limits to how much of this you can do in a brand-new beginner class, but it doesn't take a lot of time to say, "You'll notice that the song has a drum roll here. This could be a good place to put a shimmy," or, "You'll notice that this song has a chorus that repeats several times. So, let's do this combination every time the chorus comes up."

I could give more examples, but I think the above are enough to illustrate my point.

I love that list Shira, I just wish more people applied it ;-)

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

There are teachers out there who have been dancing for decades and still deserve to be gonged, hauled off the stage with a vaudeville hook, pelted with rotten tomatoes, and subjected to every other manner of performer disgracing...

Phew! Remind me NEVER to get on your wrong side!

I recently had a LIBRARIAN undermine my classes....she started offering FREE BELLY DANCE lessons at the library along with her "reading hour" on Egyptian history. Nobody has ever heard of her, and nobody knew she could belly dance. Come to find out it was all on VIDEO(she popped in an instructional DVD).
It was during a new round of my beginner classes. Yeah, nobody came to my class, surprise! LOL

Originally Posted by harmoney76

I recently had a LIBRARIAN undermine my classes....she started offering FREE BELLY DANCE lessons at the library along with her "reading hour" on Egyptian history. Nobody has ever heard of her, and nobody knew she could belly dance. Come to find out it was all on VIDEO(she popped in an instructional DVD).
It was during a new round of my beginner classes. Yeah, nobody came to my class, surprise! LOL

Wow. I'm pretty sure it's illegal to show a DVD like that.

After 30+ years in this business I still get shocked at some of these teaching stories. A librarian teaching belly via DVD?

Ah well. In my experience, if people are SERIOUSLY, looking for a belly dance teacher, they will eventually distinguish between the 6 week wonders and the real ones. However, realistically, most people just want to have fun. So the 6 week wonders can realistically make a living if that is what they can do, and that is what their target market is.

I have had a few serious students who spent years bopping around from one inexperienced teacher to another. They always told me after the first day of class that they learned more in my first day then in weeks, months, years with other teachers.

Alas, most students will never know the difference which is why there is just a difficulty in getting people to appreciate belly dance as a serious form of dance.

Originally Posted by tigerb

Wow. I'm pretty sure it's illegal to show a DVD like that.

What would make that illegal. Showing a DVD at a library? Ripping it and selling it, yes.

I believe it is indeed illegal to show a DVD purchased for home use (or even library lending) to a group. You have to have the correct licensing to use it in that situation (its just like having to have license to play music in a fitness class or wherever else).

Originally Posted by BELLA_BELLA

What would make that illegal. Showing a DVD at a library? Ripping it and selling it, yes.

In the video industry, there are different kinds of rights. The buyer must purchase the appropriate rights for however they use the video.

1. Home use. Yourself as an individual, your close friends, your family. Usually, a troupe video party would meet this criterion because they're usually a social occasion, a gathering of friends, as well as a viewing of videos.
2. Lending library. May be loaned to one individual at a time, with the expectation it will be watched only by that individual and their close friends & family.
3. Public Exhibition. May be shown in institutional situations such as a university or K-12 classroom, a public library, a theater, etc. The fee for this is usually a per-showing fee. Ie, every time the video is exhibited, a fee must be paid.

For example, if you look at the Women Make Movies web site, which sells documentaries, they indicate on their pricing page at http://www.wmm.com/orderinfo/pricing...0Video%20Sales that they sell videos for home viewing for $25-$30 each depending on length. But a K-12 school or library would need to pay $89 per title. If you visit the page at http://www.wmm.com/filmcatalog/pages/c482.shtml for the documentary Hollywood Harems (which, by the way, I recommend) you'll see that the institutional price is $250. Another movie (which I also recommend) on that same site at http://www.wmm.com/filmcatalog/pages/c485.shtml is Covered: The Hejab in Cairo, Egypt, and it sells for $195 to institutions.

So, in the case of videos distributed by Women Make Movies, a public library would be permitted to exhibit it provided they paid the higher library fee rather than the lower home-video fee. But anybody else wishing to exhibit it (for example a gym, a women's conference, a university etc.) would need to pay a public-exhibition fee.

Belly dancers who make/sell videos often don't know enough about the industry to realize that they could/should charge extra to libraries and other institutions. And some who realize it are happy to sell at their normal home-video price anyway.

In the case of the librarian showing this video, she might be doing so legally, if the dancer featured on the video (or her production company) do their licensing the same way as the distributor I described above. Ie, if the library paid a "public library" price to acquire the video rather than a home-viewing price, and if the dancer/distributor choose to include the right to exhibit publicly to a non-paying audience as part of their business arrangement when they sell to a library. We don't have enough information to know.

Complicated. I see.

The same thing is happening to me. I am soooooo frustrated and angry!

The other local teacher just retired and another moved far away. All 3 of us were teaching classes at the community college as well as at retired teacher's studio. Since I moved an hour and a half away from town, I declined doing the community college classes and am just sticking with monthly classes. So, the retired teacher recommended this student of hers. The student is a friend and a lovely lady, but she is DEFINITELY NOT qualified to teach even a beginner class. She's been dancing for close to 3 years, but only on and off. I've seen her perform at community events and she is barely beyond beginner. Her technique and posture are poor and doesn't know anything beyond the basics (hasn't learned layering, musicality, props, folk techniques, rhythms and music theory, never done gigs, never owned a real costume, etc). She's a local radio personality and does a lot to help promote our events and dancing, but I am really uncomfortable having her teach classes. I'm probably just going to have to be silent on this one and hope that it doesn't last. Oy.

And to top it off, there's another "retired" dancer in the area who teaches sometimes. She's been "dancing" for 15 years supposedly. She's always dancing to the song "Goldfinger" (yes the James Bond song) and pulls long fingered gloves off during the song. Ick. She's a student thief who shows up at local performances to steal people away. She even snuck into one of our group photos once and struck a pose!

Yeah... totally feel your pain.

I'm sorry Lesedi, but that last part was really funny (in an unfortunate way)

Originally Posted by Lesedi

And to top it off, there's another "retired" dancer in the area who teaches sometimes. She's been "dancing" for 15 years supposedly. She's always dancing to the song "Goldfinger" (yes the James Bond song) and pulls long fingered gloves off during the song. Ick. She's a student thief who shows up at local performances to steal people away. She even snuck into one of our group photos once and struck a pose!

Yeah... totally feel your pain.

Originally Posted by Lesedi

She even snuck into one of our group photos once and struck a pose!

what the hell???????

Originally Posted by e.nigma

what the hell???????

I'm sorry -- it's not really funny. Obviously she's disturbed. But that still is too funny! LOL And what a great story to tell at your local hafla!

Originally Posted by aziyade

I'm sorry -- it's not really funny. Obviously she's disturbed. But that still is too funny! LOL And what a great story to tell at your local hafla!

Lol... looking at it from a distance, it is pretty funny.

Here's the picture if any of you want to see (she snuck into several of these, but this is the best)... one of these things is not like the others... lol

That's sooooo bizarre. An inept exhibitionist.

Originally Posted by norma

After 30+ years in this business I still get shocked at some of these teaching stories. A librarian teaching belly via DVD?

One of our long-time students was asked by a YMCA to teach a belly dance class. When they couldn't agree on a price, the YMCA asked her for a list of good teaching videos to use instead... !!!!

Originally Posted by maurazebra

One of our long-time students was asked by a YMCA to teach a belly dance class. When they couldn't agree on a price, the YMCA asked her for a list of good teaching videos to use instead... !!!!

Yikes!

Originally Posted by anala

Say the serenity prayer and press on. You have no control over this sitution.

I like that!

i meet a lady at a resturant who says she performs for free at a senior center and they love her she just buys a costume and make up moves. I guess i could perform there but i would have to charge and if they are happy with her so be it. there are entertainers and then there are dancers, there are great teachers and there are people who put on a fun class for people. Anala is right we do not have control over that. or what people want?

Originally Posted by Lesedi

Lol... looking at it from a distance, it is pretty funny.

Here's the picture if any of you want to see (she snuck into several of these, but this is the best)... one of these things is not like the others... lol

Okay, that is REALLY funny! I'm sure I'd be frustrated, too, but as an outsider looking in at the bizarre situation, all I can do is laugh! ;-) What on earth can this woman be thinking? haha I'm sure you've said something to her about it-- how does she respond? This just blows my mind!