Thread: Arm Positions

I remember a teacher telling me to never show the palm of my hand when performing (top arm in L-shaped arms, etc.) because it is considered rude to Middle Eastern audiences. This is how I have trained and how I teach it to my students, but yet I still see the palm facing in, not out in some performances. So I just wanted to hear from you what you think? Is it rude/insulting or not?

It's not a faux pas to put your palm to the audience. It is however very offensive to put the bottom of your foot to anyone in many ME cultures.

There's an article about this on my web site. See Dear Shira: Is It Insulting to Expose My Palm to the Audience?

You might also be interested in this thread on my tribe on tribe.net - in particular, note the observations posted by Amber about her experience with the Bedouin: On Showing the Palms of Your Hands - Belly Dancing - the Shira.net Tribe - tribe.net

Watch Suhair Zaki's hands. She often shows her palms, and she is one of the most ladylike dancers out there.

My understanding is that the palm is only generally considered insulting by certain groups and only for the "stop in the name of love" or "talk to the hand" gesture. The hand and arm movements of this dance often have a soft palm facing the audience, but I have never known anyone to be offended by that.

Thank you!!! It's helpful to have some clarification so that I don't repeat something that is untrue!! I also have grown to like the look of turning the forearm a bit because of the straight line it creates. You ladies rock!!! I love Bhuz!!!

*Shira* - you have some really great articles, thank you for sharing them!!!

I think it is important to remember that when people are born in the Middle East, they are not issued "The Big Book of Arab Rules." People from different places, family traditions, and generations react differently to things. That's not to say you have license to do whatever you want, or that there aren't long lists of recommendations for things that are likely to be received badly (either culturally, or because they just look kind of stupid on stage), but there is some of leeway. Does every person you know have the same tolerance for cursing in any given situation?

I know a native dancer who grew up commuting between the Gulf and Egypt, and she was completely baffled by the "rule" about showing the soles of the feet. She thought it was rude to stick your feet in someone's face or gesture like you were going to stomp them sideways (which is rude in Western cultures, too), and it was rude to hit them with your shoe (more their thing than ours, but also not likely to be interpreted as a friendly gesture here), but she didn't think showing your feet while dancing normally offended anyone. She actually felt there were occasions where it made sense to allow the sole to show--for example, the hard-flexed foot men often use in Egyptian folkloric styles. I suppose you could argue that this sort of foot position during tahtib could be meant to be antagonistic, but she was saying that it sometimes also connotes the same thing as it does here--that the dancer is unpolished--which may make sense in a "country bumpkin" character piece.

If you try hard enough, anything can be rude. Gestures that are done accidentally or between friends don't carry the same meaning as ones done to strangers with clear intent to provoke them.

This is a fascinating post for me as a beginner.

As a Beginner level student so far my "neutral" or "go to" hand position is basically with the middle finger and thumb mostly touching and the other fingers delicately splayed as if I am "showing off diamond rings".

I notice in class that sometimes our hands face down towards the floor, and sometimes our hands are directly more upwards or towards the mirror and the choice of up or down or outwards seems to depend on whatever movement we are doing at the time.

So far (right or wrong) in my total newbie ignorance, I am assuming it is a matter of aesthetics. I think I notice the hands upwards position more often particularly when we are doing chest lifts, slides, circles, etc, but I could be mistaken considering I am so new. It does give me the impression of "offering" the chest to the audience, but it has not struck me in a lewd way so far...to me it seems to impart a sense of dainty, feminine pride.

On the matter of feet, so far I am being taught to point my toes and to be elegant and graceful with them, and so far I have not come across any sort of movement that shows the bottoms of my feet to the "audience" (aka mirror in the studio).

Thank you again for all the wonderfully informative, educational opportunities here on Bhuz! I truly appreciate all that you share here.

Great writeup, shira, I agree 100%.

We try not to turn out palms forward because it destroys the line of the arm, and lines are critical in dance. Palms-to-the-floor hands with graceful, energetic fingers create a tapering end to the armlines. Palms-forward hands add a big blobby shape at the end of the arms.

Pushing a palm toward a person would certainly seem aggressive and not be done in Middle Eastern dance (unless, perhaps, you were actually dancing to an Arabic cover of 'stop in the name of love?).

I look at it this way, though. In the US we wouldn't jab our middle finger upward at someone unless we meant to be rude. But if, during a graceful hand floreo, the hand moved through a position where the middle finger was uppermost for a moment, it wouldn't be rude or even noticable (unless someone snapped a photo at that instant.)

I teach palms down - or occasionally palms up (with a graceful turn between ) and not to dance palm forward - because it looks ugly. My favourite dancer, Fifi, does it a lot and it really grates. In fact, many old Egyptian dancers seem to be caught in the palm forward position from time to time.

Dr Mo teaches the "hold a coin between your thumb and middle finger position" - and I don't care for that either. And it is also easy for newbies to slip into finger down - which is rude.

Just avoid the jazz hands (similar to "stop in the name of love" hands) and you'll be fine; in other words, no jutting palms, especially with splayed fingers.

I dance with my palms facing the audience and with my palms facing down. I have seen both ways of holding the hands by equally-admired native dancers or those taught by them. What I have seen pretty consistently, however, is that the thumb is directly adjacent to or crossing the palm; if crossing the palm, the thumb often touches the second or middle finger.

Do NOT make the "okay" sign (thumb touching the tip of the second or middle finger creating an "o" shape) -- it isn't universal, but that combination is really, really bad in parts of the ME.

Deborah