Thread: Dancers who can't spin without getting sick-suggestions/help?

Any ideas on how to help a student who can't spin more than one turn without getting sick?

Originally Posted by RaqOn

Any ideas on how to help a student who can't spin more than one turn without getting sick?

I learned this one from Tedi: have them try spinning a couple of times in one direction and then once in the other direction. It helps kill the dizzies.


Tolerance to spinning has to build up. If they are just spinning in dance class once per week, they are probably not getting enough spinning to build up a tolerance. Suggest that they do some spinning every day. Not enough to get miserable, just what they can tolerate.

Are you having them spot?

try to Learn the technique of "spoting"
This is where the head turns faster than the body. You have to focus on something, quickly turn your head, and immediately re-focus on that same something.

Originally Posted by Namiradance

try to Learn the technique of "spoting"
This is where the head turns faster than the body. You have to focus on something, quickly turn your head, and immediately re-focus on that same something.

I know how to spot, but it doesn't help me at all . . . I think it makes it worse. For me, it isn't about learning to spot or to tolerate spinning, it's that my inner ear cannot stand that type of motion. The quick turn of the head is as bad for my physiology as is just turning my body around and allowing the head to come along at the same rate.

I don't spin. Never have. Don't need to -- although I wish I could cuz it's really cool!

Deborah

I know of a belly dancer who used Sea Bands (the pressure- point seasickness bands) for spinning, and it helped a lot.

Originally Posted by RaqOn

Any ideas on how to help a student who can't spin more than one turn without getting sick?

Encourage her to eat ginger before she comes to class. It doesn't help everybody - I saw one medical study in which it helped about 60-70% of the people participating in that particular study. But, it's worth a try. Any form of ginger will do so long as it's REAL ginger and not artificial flavoring - raw ginger such as what you eat with sushi, crystallized candied ginger, ginger ale, ginger tea, ginger rhubarb jam, etc.

You can also buy powdered ginger in caplets that work just as well and you don't have to worry about the taste.

Good hydration helps, it is good for your inner ear, as does a diet with slow release energy (you know proteins and complex carbs instead of simple sugars), so you don't have an energy crash throwing you off balance. Having a little something in my stomach, even if it is just a cracker or a bite of energy bar really helps keep me from feeling motion sickness. Although, not too much, I probably would avoid spinning on a full stomach.

I haven't tried the ginger or the sea bands though those do sound cool.

Also, building core strength, both abs and back and utilizing that before beginning a spin. It helps your alignment and pushes blood towards your head both of which can help your inner ear situation. You must remember to engage your central and core muscles before you begin the spin (actually think of starting the engagement from the inside arches of your feet, up through your inner thighs and all those deep muscle holding all your organs in place then the larger wrapping muscles) and maintain that sense of lift and engagement throughout the spin. Also, be in the practice of finding good alignment for your body. Yoga is good for that, as is ballet.

Sedonia already mentioned the unwind, even walking in a circle in the opposite direction can be helpful.

Spotting doesn't have to always mean whipping your head around to the same spot, although that technique has been helpful to me. It can also mean you focus on the back of one hand while turning, giving you something for your eyes to be in relationship with. Although some like to blur their vision out. I think it sort of depends on the type of spin you are going for.

Also after a spin, there are recovery methods, like touching one or both hands to your forehead can help to ground or center you. If you are in a practice situation, and really need the grounding after you've practiced your spinning, you can kneel on the ground and put your forehead to the ground. This will help to bring your balance back as well and is useful if you want to push past your usual limit and start to get your body acclimated to multiple spins. Sufis will often do something like this at the end of a ritual spin. I've done it as well when I was pretending to be a Sufi and spinning for 4 or 5 minutes at a go.

I'd be interested to hear if there is anything that works for your student. Good Luck.

I'm another dancer who has problems with spins. The concept of spotting, whipping your head around quickly to refocus, is one of the ways for me to induce vertigo, so that's not an option. I've also tried various ways of internal spotting (defocus your eyes, focus on your hand, etc.), but to the same dead, dizzy end. I have noticed a small amount of truth in the "unwind yourself by going the other direction" theory. It helps if I'm under three rotations and to some extent on longer sequences of back-and-forth turns, but it still won't address my failure to get around more than twice in the same direction without the room starting to tilt. Dramamine, ginger, and pressure points don't do much for me, either. Then again, I was the kid in gym class who was dizzy after a couple of somersaults, and the problem has gotten worse as I've gotten older. Roller coasters I could ride as a teenager make my brain feel like mush now, and forget the ones with the loops, unless I only want to go on one ride that day.

Mostly, I just try to choreograph without a lot of turns, and when I use veil, I let the veil do more rotating than I do. The biggest thing I notice that helps in terms of motion sickness is when I know what I'm doing and I can anticipate how the turns fit into the rest of the dance. When I don't know the choreography and I'm trying to watch the teacher out of the corner of my eye, turns are far more difficult than if I have the sequences of moves memorized. Often when I'm learning choreographies I skip the turns, and then put them back in when I'm more confident about what comes before and after. If I need to preserve some of the flavor of someone else's choreography, I might cut a longer turn sequence to half time, or swap the full-body rotation for a hip circle when the music will support it. And I just resign myself to not doing zaar, wild-haired Khaleeji, and Sufi whirling.

tip passed from hassem deeb....keep one hand in front and never take your eyes off it. i find those who can not see far, can not spot. but you hand is right there.

I have vision problems, and I just can't do the whip-your-head-around spotting because of that - it's not a matter of practice, it's the way my brain is wired. Instead, another vote for spotting off the hand, which works well for me. In fact, my wedding band is the perfect focus point ;-)

Also, cool, fresh air and well-lit, large rooms with a high ceiling tend to keep the nausea away.

part of the reason ballet style spotting is hard for adults to acheive is that our necks are simply not flexible enough to turn to the degree required, unless you have been spotting since childhood or are super flexible in that area anyway. If you *want* to work on that style of spotting, learning how to safely stretch your neck muscles is a must. I prefer internal spotting, but it's something you seriously have to work up to- start with the hand spotting a couple others have mentioned, gradually move the spot closer and closer to your core until you can make that mental leap to putting it just behind your eyes. I know it sounds weird, but it worked for me (after *years* of work!)

A few people really can't spin because of physiological reasons, and it IS important to recognize this (one of my friends just had a tumor removed from the nerve near her ear canal- lost her hearing in that ear and is very slowly working up enough balance to walk!) but I have helped several people work up to spinning slowly. start with only one turn, and make it slow. Gradually work up speed on that one turn, then add another. Once that is comfortable, try another. This can take months of regular work.

It is important to keep core muscles engaged and the body aligned and lifted- I tell students to imagine a string pulling up from their belly button, through the top of their head to the ceiling. Alternately, I talk about a rod going from the point of contact with the floor, going straight through the body to the ceiling. Point of contact will vary depending on whether you choose to do a spin on demi point or a heel spin, but maintaining a straight line so your body is 'stacked' is important to maintain balance (and avoid tweaking your knee for that matter!)

I have written all this so many times, I really do just need to make an article for my website, lol!

Never much liked the aesthetic of spotting in belly dance, I teach the defocus method. Also be aware that older dancers, apart from general stiffness in the neck, may have the beginning of closing arterties in the neck. Turning the head will make things worse.

Either let everything defocus - bad idea if you cannot maintain the ability to know where you are in space - or focus on something like your hand and defocus everything else. For instance, hold you hand where you can see it and only let that be in focus.

Also, tolerance is built up - one spin. Then rest. Then another.

You are not alone. I can't do more than a few spins and I get every kind of motion sick there is. I had to use Scopolamine patches throughout grad school/post doc because looking through the microscope turned me green in under 10 min. So what? Just get good in doing something else.

Maybe we could just invent our own style. Hmmm, a hand gesture comes to mind....instead of the hand-to-head thing or the fist on hand or thigh bop...how about a dainty hand to mouth gesture followed by 2 hands in a throwing-out whuff sort of thing.

Originally Posted by shems

Good hydration helps, it is good for your inner ear

This is absolutely true. Dehydration can definitely be a cause of dizziness, so drinking plenty of fluid a couple of hours before dancing can help reduce the amount of dizziness.

When you think about it, the inner ear's function of maintaining your balance is tied to the presence of fluid, and when you're dehydrated, it affects fluid levels everywhere in the body, including the inner ear.

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

When I don't know the choreography and I'm trying to watch the teacher out of the corner of my eye, turns are far more difficult than if I have the sequences of moves memorized.

Yes, yes, yes! Trying to watch the teacher while spinning will put a person on the fast path to dizziness! When I teach double veil, I intentionally stand still and shout directions rather than doing the combination with the class, thereby removing the temptation they feel to steal glances at at me while they do their run-through.

lot of good suggestions to try! I'd like a follow up to see what your student does... are they just doing one & quitting? Do they realize home practise is needed for spins like any other skill? I often think students quit too quickly - it took me time in the beginning but improved with practise.

Re the neck flexibility for spotting - all the head has to do is turn from side to side 180 degrees, from looking straight out from one shoulder to the other, it's really not that much of a "stretch" -

common mistakes I see beginning-spinners make are:

• slow unstable turns - it's hard to control momentum if your axis is wobbly. they need to keep ribs lifted and heads up
• weak arms - arms affect spinning a LOT! give them a specific arm position or movement
• looking down or around - here's where spotting or focusing on the hand helps

it's a lot to master, but if they work at turns and spins it should improve - I just hate seeing people so ready to give up when something doesn't work for them right away!

Originally Posted by RaqOn

Any ideas on how to help a student who can't spin more than one turn without getting sick?