Thread: Instructionals w/ low snooze factor?

I'm going to make a big confession here, online, for all the world to see.

Most instructional bellydance videos bore me to tears.

Maybe it's my hyperactive Sicilian sensibilities, but I find very few that don't have a sedative effect on me. (Maybe that's the ticket for those sleepless nights! LOL)

Students have been asking when I will make a video so that they can practice at home, but I fear the snooze factor. I don't want to be a hypocrite, and hand them a video that would put me to sleep.

I have found a few that I love and that hold my attention. It seems to have to do with how enthusiastic I am about what is being taught, the clarity with which it is taught, the overall visual and auditory aesthetics, and maybe most important, the on-camera speaking charisma of the teacher.

What factors do you find make the difference between a snoozer instructional, and one that keeps you alert and watching? Anything tangible that you can put your finger on, or is it just an intangible something? Any examples of snoozers, or examples of "keeps ya bright-eyed and bushytailed?"

Maybe I just need more sleep......

It probably depends on experience. I have six years. Some bellydance movies have given me the snooze factor. Blockbuster online lets you rent them, and I was able to try quite a few. That way you don't waste your money buying the ones you don't like.

Shira has some ratings on instructional DVDs. I have found it most accurate. She seperates them into degree of dance experience.

Right now, practicing with DVD's is my only choice, now that I have moved to a place where I haven't found anything bellydance.

Maybe some dancers can make some so we can use them. Yeah! Any volunteers. I would definately spend money on something different for a change.

..cr.: I miss my Miss Joan... Boo woo!

Well I don't have a problem with the snooz factor, but then again I don't buy instructional DVDs. Sorry not really helpful....

For me it is seeing the same thing for the eleventeenth time. I think it is hard to avoid it completely due to the nature of the beast. Classes stay fresh because, though some elements are repeated, a class is alwas a bit different than the next. Maybe an ideal DVD practice session would be taking bits and pieces from different videos, but that is moreso something a better programmable player would solve.

I've never actually used videos on a repetitive basis, so I'm thinking more in terms of what are the factors that make one video interesting and another one monotonous. Does the speaking tone make a difference? The background behind the teacher? The camera work? What are the elements that make one instructional more interesting than another? Is it just a matter of whether the teacher's style is inspiring to you? (And no, not watching them at all doesn't count...lol)

I think visual variety helps. For example, let's say the dancer teaches a section on hip lifts and drops. Then, when she's done with that and ready to teach a section on traveling steps, it's good if she wears a change of exercise garb in a different color, and it can also help to have some minor changes to the set decor. (I like sets to be simple, but a few ornamental pillows or a couple of potted plants can add some visual interest. But if it's the same set from beginning to end, it starts to feel monotonous.) Another way to vary the visual impact is to move the camera so it shoots from a different angle for the next session.

I think varying sound can be good too. For example, maybe have the instructor explain how to do a move without any background music. Then, when the explanation is complete and it's time to drill it, have appropriate music for the drill.

I tend to feel more engaged when the instructor is speaking directly to the camera than when the descriptions are done by voiceover. When voiceover is used, instructors usually fail to project their personalities through the camera, and they come across as detached. But if the instructor is speaking to the camera, she often seems to let something of herself come through with it.

Originally Posted by Lilladancer

Maybe it's my hyperactive Sicilian sensibilities, .

God, do I understand that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
..l;,

Originally Posted by *Shira*

I think visual variety helps. For example, let's say the dancer teaches a section on hip lifts and drops. Then, when she's done with that and ready to teach a section on traveling steps, it's good if she wears a change of exercise garb in a different color, and it can also help to have some minor changes to the set decor. (I like sets to be simple, but a few ornamental pillows or a couple of potted plants can add some visual interest. But if it's the same set from beginning to end, it starts to feel monotonous.) Another way to vary the visual impact is to move the camera so it shoots from a different angle for the next session.

I think varying sound can be good too. For example, maybe have the instructor explain how to do a move without any background music. Then, when the explanation is complete and it's time to drill it, have appropriate music for the drill.

I tend to feel more engaged when the instructor is speaking directly to the camera than when the descriptions are done by voiceover. When voiceover is used, instructors usually fail to project their personalities through the camera, and they come across as detached. But if the instructor is speaking to the camera, she often seems to let something of herself come through with it.

Great observations! Though I would say as long as the instructor has a lively speaking manner. Being on camera seems to dull down most people who aren't professional actors - that's the tricky part....

Originally Posted by Lilladancer

Great observations! Though I would say as long as the instructor has a lively speaking manner. Being on camera seems to dull down most people who aren't professional actors - that's the tricky part....

I'd agree - actually, ANY public speaking that seems semi-formal (as talking on-camera would) can make an otherwise-lively person turn into a drone. I've sat through MANY a technology training session that was a real face-slammer. I've also sat through many a sales training presentation that was a real face-slammer. So it fits that a belly dance teacher who has great charisma in her weekly classes can't necessarily translate that charisma to a videotaping session, not only because of the camera, but also because of the increased formality of the situation and lack of eager students to interact with.

That said, a teacher who uses silly imagery and jokes in her normal classroom shouldn't necessarily do the same when taping a video. The joke seems fresh and fun the first time you hear it, but when you work with the video over and over to master the techniques being taught, the silliness can really be grating.

I am another instructional snoozer... I can't use them though I've tried. I just sit down and watch the dvd, skipping through boring bits... sometimes whole chapters... and just put it on the shelf when I've finished.

I get more inspired to get up and work through a move/concept watching performance videos... is that odd? I guess watching a performance vid sparks a little of that performing adrenaline that makes you get out of your seat and want to boogie.

What I Do like in an instructional is to be constantly engaged, visually or through the use of articulate speaking or music. I am not a fan of the instructional that is like a class just on vid, I don't like slow talking with frequent pauses so you can try a move... it's a dvd, I can pause if I want to practice!

Clearly shown and articulated movement, confident speaking and look at me! I don't like too much fading out to another scene where we see the move/combo in action (this can be done well but rarely is). I really like having the move or combo broken down first, then spoken through while doing it at pace, then done to music.

OK, ideal is 1. interesting but not fussy set, not too dark 2. instructor dressed simply but attractively (hate to say it but one thing that has put me off the iamed instructionals I have is those velvet suits all the teachers wear) 3. Speak clearly and confidently and don't waste my time with pausing to 'practice' or pausing to 'fade out' to another shot 4. Multiple views of the instructor, I like to see the front and the back through the use of mirrors. 5. keeping the energy level up and the over all momentum of the vid going.

Voice makes a big difference. I liked WDNY Jenna's first dvd, but in her second one, she seemed to slow down her voice a bit, probably to be more precise and clear. But it totally bored me to tears. I could not, could not watch it. It's gotten great review, I know... My 2 cents. Speak normally. There's always the rewind button.

Originally Posted by dancerose

Voice makes a big difference. I liked WDNY Jenna's first dvd, but in her second one, she seemed to slow down her voice a bit, probably to be more precise and clear. But it totally bored me to tears. I could not, could not watch it. It's gotten great review, I know... My 2 cents. Speak normally. There's always the rewind button.

YES! I think the slowed down speaking manner is part of the sedative effect for me when instructionals put me to sleep. That is a good point! Normal speaking manner, definitely.

Originally Posted by *maria*

God, do I understand that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
..l;,

Maria, do you find yourself nodding off in social situations when people speak too slowly? My family gatherings have always been fast-paced, energetic affairs, and when I visited my husband's German family for the first time, I literally had to fight to stay awake....LOL The slide show was nice and sweet and all that, but I really missed Uncle Al cracking everyone up with his over-the-top Sicilian accent in a rousing game of Pictionary...

Yup, I too prefer direct talking to the voice-over, and I like instructors who aren't afraid to project their personality - kooky or otherwise! I recently enjoyed Mesmera's zill instruction video because she really shows her playful, none-too-serious personality. It's a refreshing change from BDSS voiceovers!

I also want lots of performance footage in costume! Then when I'm bored, I can look at that and get inspired again. I feel seriously jibbed when there's no bonus performance footage.

Don't over-explain a simple point. I previewed Katia's 2nd arm dvd (which I like btw), but was frustrated with her explaination about arm line. I think this concept was easy to grasp and didn't need as many examples. This would have been fine in class, but not on a dvd we see over and over again. Repetition is great for drills, combo's, choreo run-throughs, but not for fine points sometimes.

Put the dvd down on paper, bullet point by point. Have someone else read it. Is it dry?

Oh, and is there some longevity in the dvd? Drills? Practice workout? Something?

Originally Posted by dancerose

Oh, and is there some longevity in the dvd? Drills? Practice workout? Something?

Dancerose, yes, this is a good point. I think it's great when a dancer designs her video in such a way that even after the person masters the moves or combinations, there is still a reason to go back and use it. I like it when videos contain a drills/practice section separate from the instruction that the user can go back and work with. This is one of the nice features of IAMED's Art of Bellydance series - there's an hour of instruction, and a separate half-hour workout which (on two of the three videos) is based primarily on the same moves that were taught in the instruction.

Hi Shira,

IAMED produces some nice stuff and that set was good! Unfortunately for me, it drove me absolutely nuts. LOL I thought it was "slow" as I had already watched the 3 Neenas & Veenas. I remember the dark-haired dancer spoke like she was talking to a five-year-old. I really, really, really, wanted to adore them because I loved the set and the music reminded me of old Hollywood movies, but sadly I liked N&V better. I thought there was more to the practice section. But I'm sure I remember IAMED's did much better on appropriate technique, it's just been a while.

Originally Posted by dancerose

Hi Shira,

IAMED produces some nice stuff and that set was good! Unfortunately for me, it drove me absolutely nuts. I thought it was "slow" as I had already watched the 3 Neenas & Veenas. I remember the dark-haired dancer spoke like she was talking to a five-year-old. I really, really, really, wanted to adore them because I loved the set and the music reminded me of old Hollywood movies, but sadly I liked N&V better. I thought there was more to the practice section. But I'm sure I remember IAMED's did much better on appropriate technique, it's just been a while.

Dancerose, yes, I can easily believe that Paulina's (the blonde's) pacing would have seemed "slow" indeed if you had already completed the three Veena/Neena "Discover Bellydance" videos. I think Paulina's pacing works best for people who 1) Have never previously worked with any other belly dance videos, 2) Are easily intimidated if the instructor moves too fast, 3) Like to proceed at a slow and thoughtful pace, mastering one thing completely before moving on to the next. I don't think there's anything wrong about the fact that you liked Veena and Neena better.

Yes, Shira, exactly! There is should be something (dvd wise) for everyone. Oh, I think the dark-haired woman was in blue and led one of the "workouts." That's the pre-school teacher is was talking about. I'm sure she is very nice. Voice is just very important to me.

Great point. I think that teachers benefit greatly from having a live audience, & a good DVD moves along just like a good class, without too much talking. I don't like most of the instructionals I have. I feel that they are a one-use thing basically.

I just got one from Ross Dress for Less which I like a lot. It's

Dance Today! Bellydance - Active Lifestyle Makeover (2006) from Neon

It has a chiftitelli number & a drum solo number.

I was very pleasantly surprised - especially since I didn't really like the Instant Bellydancer ones.

Oh-my-gosh, it's good to know I'm not alone! I've yet to get even a third into either Jenna's "Basics and Beyond" or Ariella's "Yoga Conditioning" before I'm nodding off. It's terrible.

For me, it's the speed of the delivery, both voice and info. If it's not fast enough or varied enough to make me work to keep up, I just can't stay focused.

I like Sera's East Coast Tribal "Basics, Combo's and Strength Workout" DVD. She moves through the drills and choreo pretty quickly and, since I'm still very new and haven't yet mastered the basics, I can't quite keep up. I truly enjoy this DVD!

(As an aside - yoga DVD's are even worse. I haven't seen one yet that didn't put me out almost instantly, and I've tried many times.)

A.C.

I think this instructional should be the standard...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsGMYIzjv6k&feature=related"](Example of a good instructional DVD with low/no snooze factor...[/ame]

;0) I wonder if he would buy any of my costumes for his next instructional as I'm sure they would fit him... (damn, there I go again mixing my threads!).

Actually, in all seriousness, I do like engaging visuals and for choreography purposes, very well broken down sequences. The only instructional DVD I ever actually used was one of Nourhan Sharif's, where it included front view, back view, full time, and half time. There were other parts of the instructional I wasn't too crazy about but I really worked with it to learn the choreo. She normally teaches at a fast, challenging pace anyways so there was no falling asleep to that DVD...

Lilla,

I think instructionals are a big snoozer because everyone is talking from a script in that scripted voice. It's so programmed. Of course, I know you have to work with one, but it gives everyone that stepford wife voice quality IMO.

In addition to that, they are formulaic and after you've seen one, you've seen them all - no elements of surprise in terms of what comes next. Of course, I know they need to be that way!

Naturally, they are produced for a reason and you have to really be interested AND you have to be challenged to learn whatever the subject matter is.

Originally Posted by Azhia

I think this instructional should be the standard...

(Example of a good instructional DVD with low/no snooze factor...

;0) I wonder if he would buy any of my costumes for his next instructional as I'm sure they would fit him... (damn, there I go again mixing my threads!).

Actually, in all seriousness, I do like engaging visuals and for choreography purposes, very well broken down sequences. The only instructional DVD I ever actually used was one of Nourhan Sharif's, where it included front view, back view, full time, and half time. There were other parts of the instructional I wasn't too crazy about but I really worked with it to learn the choreo. She normally teaches at a fast, challenging pace anyways so there was no falling asleep to that DVD...

That is too funny! A dance sequence to "Augustus Gloop".... I guess everything weird ends up on YouTube sooner or later!

Originally Posted by danidance

Lilla,

I think instructionals are a big snoozer because everyone is talking from a script in that scripted voice. It's so programmed. Of course, I know you have to work with one, but it gives everyone that stepford wife voice quality IMO.

In addition to that, they are formulaic and after you've seen one, you've seen them all - no elements of surprise in terms of what comes next. Of course, I know they need to be that way!

Naturally, they are produced for a reason and you have to really be interested AND you have to be challenged to learn whatever the subject matter is.

Dani,
I produced and scripted my DVD, basically I told the camera dude to turn it on, and stay in focus. I made sure I didn't over script the explanations, and the parts that I did write, I didn't stick to anyway!! I just acted like I was teaching a private, I've done some instructionals for others and it's hard to modify to their format, I want a relaxed feel to my video's, not like it's boot camp, or I'm the high queen talking down to the student. It's very hard to get that balance. Thank God for multiple takes! You have to be able to laugh at yourself in the process!!

Just for curiosity's sake, how does everyone feel about using humor in instructionals?

It never bothered me, so long as it felt like it was coming naturally to the instructor. Still doesn't, actually. But one of my friends commented that a certain instructional in which a teacher we both knew used her standard jokes all along the way was really annoying to her. She said, "No one should EVER use jokes on a video because they get really tiresome when you play the same segment over and over."

How does everyone else feel about this?

Humor that is well done and actually funny or witty is great, trouble is, few people are good comedians. Not to mention, what's funny to you is not funny to me (the universal yous and mes). I'm trying to remember if I've seen an instructional that uses humor....none come to mind.

Originally Posted by danidance

Humor that is well done and actually funny or witty is great, trouble is, few people are good comedians. Not to mention, what's funny to you is not funny to me (the universal yous and mes). I'm trying to remember if I've seen an instructional that uses humor....none come to mind.

I completely agree. Even if it is genuinely funny the first time, by the sixth or seventh time it will be highly annoying.

The other thing that grates so much with me is when instructors have little phrases they repeat regularly. As an example I recently watched Fatiem's Beautiful Arms and hands, which was a great dvd, and had a lot that I found useful, but after nearly every segment she says 'Have fun with it!!!' or 'Now go enjoy it!!' which I find irritating. I also spent much of the dvd wondering why anyone would wear one of those sausage headbands!

Apart from that it was a great instructional, and she came across as a good teacher and dancer.

Haha! Firefly I was crackign on that when I was doing the Ultimate Combinations DVD because after every single one she'd say "Have fun" but she had this look in her eye like a deranged person and it sorta freaked me out.... I LOVE Fahtiem's combos but that was off putting.

I have to say as an experienced dancer alot of them put me to sleep too!! I think the ultimate thing for me is a) pace and b) complexity. I am trying to challenge myself! I want something fast paced. I know a hip drop, I know a back 8. Move fast people!

I like Jillina's series because it's broken out by technique, choreography and combos. she drills the combos enough to get into your muscle memory and moves them along fast enough to retain my interest.

I've been working with the Saida videos as well and she moves the same way. Teaches a few combos (one run through) and then has a comprehensive reherseal of it all several times in different chapters. Fast paced and challenging! I feel challenged doing it so it's holding my interest.