Thread: Swedish squarehead wants to read about you(and your teachers!)combination training

Hi all,
when going through my DVD/video library I noticed something I´m interested to discuss with you:

While training abroad,I took it for granted and normal that my turkish,lebanese,syrian,egyptian etc tutors sometimes didn´t break down movements at all rehearsing them in full speed from second one.
(think this teaching style is called "follow the bouncing butt"?)

Yesterday I went through my video/DVD collection,and was surprised to see how many western teachers I have on DVD who choose to go through verbally and slow at first,and then immediately drilling in full speed.

When teaching a movement or combination,how do you teach it?

My way(very,very swedish I guess) first break it down verbally while doing it very slow,then training it at very low speed,after that half speed,when class catched up going to full speed.

My own weekly classes usually goes like this:
1.Warmup
2.Technique(correcting)
3.Puzzling the new movements together into a combination explaining verbally while doing slow
4.Doing the combination low speed,half speed full speed etc(correcting)
5.Rehearsing our new piece of choreo/Improvisation or "follow the bouncing butt" using the new movements.(feedback and small detail correcting)
6.Cooldown if not everyone is protesting because they rather cool down/stretch themselves,using class time for more dance


I would love to hear about how you were/are taught,and/or you and your teachers way of doing this!

Pretty please?

Originally Posted by emma-bessa

When teaching a movement or combination,how do you teach it?

Demonstrate it briefly, up to speed, then break it down slowly.

I'd rather learn this way too. I want to see what the finished product will look like before I learn the pieces of it.


We do:
1. Gentle warmup
2. New movement breakdown
3. Drills
4. Choreography or Combos
5. Cool down and discussion.

My experience is that most teachers fall onto a spectrum.

[lots of "get it"--not much "teach it"]
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Natives not fully assimilated into the Western dance community or without any other dance training. They teach at full speed with following, and often struggle to break moves down because they learned by imitation, not by naming moves, engaging muscles, or relating things to yoga or other styles of dance. These teachers do a lot of improv, so even when following, each iteration of the same exercise may be slightly different. They struggle to see why a student wants to "overanalyze" the dance by picking apart the details.
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Natives who are used to working with Western dance students or who have extensive background in other dance styles. They teach frequently at full speed with following, but have learned to incorporate dance or physiological terminology, and structure their classes the way Western students expect.
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Non-natives who have thorough grounding in the ethnic presentation but use a Western methodology. They teach with lots of technical breakdown and some following.
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Non-natives who are almost all Western methodology, and not much "feeling." They can break things down to the muscle cell, but have trouble seeing the forest for the trees. They don't like to do a lot of following or improv because their strength is in analysis and drilling. They struggle to see the dance at anything but an intellectual level.
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[lots of "teach it"--not much "get it"]


Somewhere out on their own scale are the few teachers who don't have demonstrable skills from either end of the spectrum. No sense debating them, because the only thing to say about them is that they need to be stopped until they learn something worth teaching.

Personally, I feel the LOGI-NMTI end of the spectrum is often not very useful to beginners. Apparently it's great in an immersion or one-on-one environment, since that's how most natives learn, but in a large class, there's too much room for misunderstanding. And after a certain level of proficiency, the LOTI-NMGI end can become less useful to an advanced student. Once you've learned a move competently, there are only so many mechanical tweaks you can improve it with, and issues like expression and musical interpretation start becoming higher priorities. For the average student, I think you want a teacher in the middle--someone who can break down and lead, and can decide in the moment which is the best strategy for that move and that group of students.

I really hope that I(and is working hard to)fall in the middle cathegories,Tourbeau.

And I don´t say that one way is better than the other!

Let´s say that we are learning drop/kick and it´s in the choreo like "after last weeks puzzle piece we will start on something that many refers to as a drop and kick"*drops and kicks*
*slow while explaning*
*half time*
*full time*
(also have had many teachers who don´t did movements both sides,but I think it´s important.)
Then doing lets say "cross step,drop/kick,spin"in the same manner.

On my weekly classes over the years I was taught like this,and have (maybe squareheaded?)found it the best way,but going through dvd:s I´ve saw many who does combinations slow while explaining,then moving up to full speed immediately...so I became so curious how other Bhuzzers built up their lessons /were taught!:)

My teacher breaks it down - we do the new movement/combination slowly a few times, then if most people are getting the gist we practice to slower paced music. Then lots of repetition with the piece we are working on, adding in extras like arm variations, and it enters the "repertoire" of moves that go into the improvised FTBB warm up for that course of classes.

She also did a few extra classes a while back that were all about getting a feel for the music and having fun with it. No formal technique teaching, just copying at full speed. Super fun.

Originally Posted by Aniseteph

My teacher breaks it down - we do the new movement/combination slowly a few times, then if most people are getting the gist we practice to slower paced music. Then lots of repetition with the piece we are working on, adding in extras like arm variations, and it enters the "repertoire" of moves that go into the improvised FTBB warm up for that course of classes.

She also did a few extra classes a while back that were all about getting a feel for the music and having fun with it. No formal technique teaching, just copying at full speed. Super fun.

Interesting!Thank you for answering...and as soon as basic technique is down,it´s time to have fun with the moves (but some teachers here teach this way only,as they were taught and continue to do.This doesn´t seem to work for beginners/intermediate)

There are advantages and disadvantages to both styles of teaching, for example,

[lots of "get it"--not much "teach it"]
Pro: Following the bouncing butt is good for understanding how a dancer "feels"and interprets music, and it builds improv skills.
Con: If you can't figure out what the teacher is doing only by watching, it can be hard to recreate the move yourself, and their toolbox is often pretty empty when it comes to explanations.

[lots of "teach it"--not much "get it"]
Pro: This sort of teacher usually has a wide repertoire of explanations for how to execute moves.
Con: Learning primarily at the technical level can create dancers who look mechanical, because the burden of figuring out and practicing the expressiveness part frequently defaults to the student.

I think of it like learning a language. Learning without structure usually works best in a total immersion environment over a long period of time. If you're going to learn in diluted bursts in a "faux habitat," then you need both formal and informal methods. I don't particularly want a foreign language teacher who can babble a mile a minute in slang but has no grasp of grammar or how to teach a student to pronounce unfamiliar sounds, but I also don't want a linguist who can geek for hours on irregular verb conjugation and labial placement for consonant pronunciation, but has no actual, real-time conversation skills. Each of those teachers has a useful place on the educational continuum, but by themselves, they're not a well-rounded experience.

As far as the timing of drills, it's probably safe to assume that if someone doesn't understand how to do a move slowly, they won't be able to do it well fast, either, and rushing into a quicker tempo just builds sloppy habits. I think with shimmies, speed can be a factor, though. Practicing at slower speeds only does so much to build the higher ones. At some point, you have to make the jump to full time. I do notice that there are tempos that feel more natural than others to me (and mine aren't the same as someone else's), and it takes a conscious effort to drill at uncomfortable speeds. One of the most valuable pieces of advice you can give a student is, "Don't always practice the same move to the same song every time."

Although speaking of hip drops with kicks...One time, I was in a class with a native teacher who was doing hip drops in a way that was nothing like how I learned them and it was maddening. There really wasn't anything different about the muscular implementation, it was the timing, and when she tried to break it down, the timing changed to a third variation. Argh!

Originally Posted by Tourbeau

I don't particularly want a foreign language teacher who can babble a mile a minute in slang but has no grasp of grammar or how to teach a student to pronounce unfamiliar sounds, but I also don't want a linguist who can geek for hours on irregular verb conjugation and labial placement for consonant pronunciation, but has no actual, real-time conversation skills. Each of those teachers has a useful place on the educational continuum, but by themselves, they're not a well-rounded experience.

AMEN.

I enjoy taking classes/workshops with many different teachers,but taking weekly classes(bread&butter?)I have been drawn towards those who break down moves and drills combinations in different tempos(+offered music&cultural background w. sources,but that´s another thread)

Been dancing for 13 years now,and only taught for a few after my teachers suggested that I could/should (plus acted as babysitters the first two terms by taking my classes and gave feedback :)

I truly want my classes to feel as logical,and be as pedagogic as possible...without being a mechanical experience