Thread: Of Students & Shopping... Advice please!

Hi! This is my first time posting in the teacher forum, so I hope these questions aren't toooo silly...

1) My 20+/- students are at the point now when they seriously need to aquire their own equipment (veils, hip scarves, etc.), most having been with me for a few months now and HOOKED! Lol*

Finding veils is never a problem - my friend dyes & sells them, and she visits with us every so often to share her beauties... I'm also not worried about the cymbals right this moment, as I know two vendors that will work with me whenever.

My trouble is that my students seem to expect me to just go "poof!" and have an entire store of expensive hip scarves! Plus, the ones they want to buy are the fancy, $50-on-Dahlal, velvet, sparkly, elastic-top ones, which aren't easy to find in the first place... I AM trying to get the girls to go to MBC with me for a night to shop, and I could also direct them to browse over Dahlal...

Do you have any advice or suggestions on where I should look to aquire a bunch of these hip scarves? I almost feel like I need an Egyptian vendor, but I've never done any of this before & I'm out of my depth now... :-/ Help?

2) On the other hand, I have a couple students who think it's ok to just keep borrowing my personal gear interminably, and my gear is starting to show serious signs of aear. Some are sentimental favorites that I need to retire back to safety. :(

How would you recommend I gently nudge them into purchasing their very own stuff?

I hope this made sense! Rushing around to get for my day job! But I teach tonight and I'd love to have a plan for my ladies... Thank you!!!*

I've always tried not to be the magic teacher that somehow sorts everything out for her students. Instead I've always been very willing to provide plenty of information about trustworthy vendors, to whom they can turn for their bellydancing needs.

So I keep a list of vendors who I *know* provide good customer service. I also remind students that these are not the cheapest vendors, but that they only need to mention my name to be assured of good service. If finance is an issue, I point out that there are plenty of Ebay vendors, where they can probably get stuff cheap, but that you generally get what you pay for.

Is there a reason they can't order by phone or online from the mail order vendor of their choice? On the other hand, if you are interested in vending, I believe Dahlal does offer a consignment arrangement where you could sell her merchandise and earn some store credit.

Also, you should just tell your students that you will soon only bring a few extra items, and new students have priority over returning students (who should have their own stuff). When there is not enough to go around, they'll get the message.

For veils and zills, you should give homework assignments. This will emphasize the need for them to have their own stuff.

Don't forget about guiding them into buying their own music! That is actually more important that hipscarves.

Originally Posted by seagypsy_storm

My trouble is that my students seem to expect me to just go "poof!" and have an entire store of expensive hip scarves! Plus, the ones they want to buy are the fancy, $50-on-Dahlal, velvet, sparkly, elastic-top ones, which aren't easy to find in the first place... I AM trying to get the girls to go to MBC with me for a night to shop, and I could also direct them to browse over Dahlal...

If they want fancy hip scarves like Dahlal carries, then say, "Go to www.dahlal.com." Problem solved. You do not have to become a vendor to teach. There are people who already do that and they are familiar with import and export laws, and reputable sources in foreign countries. They've worked hard to build their businesses, so let them do their jobs. Your students can buy whatever they want on their own time, and you don't have to feel guilty about it. If you feel obligated to provide a list of your favorite vendors, that's great, but otherwise, why can't they use the Internet like everybody else? If they're not sure about an unknown vendor, Bhuz even has a forum to discuss those concerns.

2) On the other hand, I have a couple students who think it's ok to just keep borrowing my personal gear interminably, and my gear is starting to show serious signs of aear. Some are sentimental favorites that I need to retire back to safety.

That has to stop, or you'll regret it eventually. If you want to provide scarves for your beginners, get a bulk order of cheap loaners just for class. (Maybe the crummy ones will be incentive for encouraging them to buy their own stuff.) You do not need to be a lending library to teach, either. If you are teaching adults, they should be able to figure out how to buy their own supplies.

How would you recommend I gently nudge them into purchasing their very own stuff?

Just say, "I've had some issues recently about lending my personal dance supplies, so from now on, I'm going to have a new policy...." (Don't worry, it's human nature for most listeners to assume you're talking about someone else, and you can deflect any questions about what those "issues" are.) If you don't wean students off the idea that you are their free lending source, you'll be back here in the future asking a WWBD question about how to handle the student who put a hole in your favorite costume or bent the tip of your sword or returned 75% of a set of zills she borrowed. This is not always a cheap activity, and the longer you do it, the more of an investment you'll be expected to make. The sooner they learn to accept that, the better.

I agree with the advice given. And unless you are looking to make a profit from vending to your students, I would suggest you get them out of the habit of looking to you for everything ASAP. The internet is a great resource, and desire a great motivator. If they have the desire to find their own supplies they will, if they don't then no amount of help beyond pointing them to websites will make a difference. Don't loan anything you aren't willing to part with. If you really want to loan supplies to newbies then cheap stuff will do (not your personal items). And have a clear policy, for example you will only loan hip scarves for up to 4 classes, for use during the class but not to take home. Good luck!

You guys have been a huge help, and very reassuring. It's comforting to know that I was thinking along the right lines! Everyone's suggestions and reminders have been great.

Thank you! C.

I have a basket of old scarves I don't use any more and a bin of practice veils for class. For a while, I did order hip scarves in bulk because the non-coin ones were hard to find. My personal stash is off limits & I consider the class supplies to be just that- supplies that will eventually need to be replaced, but having them available does help keep new students happy. Most folks do just go buy their own stuff eventually, or decide they don't really need hip scarves for class (there are noticeably fewer hip scarves in my int/adv class)

I do think it's a good idea to let them know who the good vendors are, and if someone wants to try to get a discount by organizing a bulk order, go for it.

I know some teachers who have enough of a stash they can dress their students for recitals & such- I can't afford that, so I let students who intend to perform WELL in advance (at least a semester if not a full year) what they will need to buy for the recital, and we build up a decent wardrobe of the period of a few years. Seriously- for class gear, the folks who desperately want to wear the cool stuff will end up going out and buying the cool stuff and those who don't care won't and as long as they are dressed appropriately for class it really doesn't matter. (this works for zills too- I have loaner zills for class- all good quality but some nicer than others and it only takes a couple weeks of being stuck with the cheaper zills for students to invest in a pair they actually like *and* remember to bring them!)

You could try to organize a group order; Dahlal IIRC will discount large enough group orders, because we used to them get shamadans for a class I attended. Make sure you collect all money up front before placing the order, though!

As a student, I don't expect my teacher to provide me with anything except instruction and the name of site or store to buy any needed supplies.

I have veils and zills collected over the years whch I give out in classes.
I also have practice sticks..some actual sticks , some bamboo garden canes cut to size.
For me and my class.... class wear is leggings or joggers and a T shirt.
If they want to wear anything around their hips, they wear what they wish from a simple scarf to their own coined hip scarf. I provide nothing like that and emphasise that this is not an expensive pursuit and needs no great outlay.
When they want to spend money, their proirity should be music.

If they are not in a hurry, I can get you a wholesale order of hipscarves from my supplier. If you need them now, contact Turquoise Intl. Ali has a mountain of the best quality hip scarves ready to ship. Ask him about the teacher program.

Originally Posted by seagypsy_storm

1) My 20+/- students are at the point now when they seriously need to aquire their own equipment (veils, hip scarves, etc.), most having been with me for a few months now and HOOKED! Lol*

Well done!

Originally Posted by seagypsy_storm

Finding veils is never a problem - my friend dyes & sells them, and she visits with us every so often to share her beauties...

You might also want to consider plain hemmed lengths of chiffon.

Originally Posted by seagypsy_storm

My trouble is that my students seem to expect me to just go "poof!" and have an entire store of expensive hip scarves! Plus, the ones they want to buy are the fancy, $50-on-Dahlal, velvet, sparkly, elastic-top ones, which aren't easy to find in the first place... I AM trying to get the girls to go to MBC with me for a night to shop, and I could also direct them to browse over Dahlal...

Sounds like you are doing a good job as a teacher - but do you actually want to branch out into vending. The few times I've done my students a favour by getting them stuff I've often had to hold the stock for over a year when the person who asked for it changed her mind. These days unless it is cash up front the only thing I'll buy is music.

Next question - why do they want these hip scarves? Around here they aren't practice wear - students wear leggings and either their veil or a plain fabric scarf. For shows I won't let dancers use them for most styles - if they are doing Orientale they must have a bra and belt. Are you creating a rod for your own back?

Originally Posted by seagypsy_storm

2) On the other hand, I have a couple students who think it's ok to just keep borrowing my personal gear interminably, and my gear is starting to show serious signs of aear. Some are sentimental favorites that I need to retire back to safety.!!!*

No, no no - don't lend your gear. I have old (chiffon) veils I lend in class. I have a really ****ty pair of tin finger cymbals for emergencies. But I'd never lend costume pieces. (I will hire some folkloric costumes as they can be one offs)

Start clean this week. Tell them you have taken advice and the new regime starts today.

At the beginning of my class sessions I hand out names of suppliers where my students can buy things like zills and costumes that I do not make or have in stock myself (I offer custom costume design and construction and a small supply of basic hip scarves and veils).

I also try to advise my students about how to use things they may already have in their closet as costumes or more fancy class wear.

I do not allow students to use my personal costume supply or hip scarves that have sentimental value. If you do not want them using them you can replace your sentimental scarves with inexpensive ones you can pick up for a few dollars and offer to sell them if they like the new hip scarves.

I have several teachers who keep a loaner basket of stuff available. Zills, veils and hipscarves. but trust me, there are no new ones or even nice ones in those baskets! If a student is serious, they will find a way to afford what they need for class. Your best way of serving your students is to have a list of vendors available and know your options. As noted above, many established vendors are perfectly willing to make deals for teachers.

{{{HUGS}}}

If they want hipscarves, you can recommend vendors. Then they can go ahead and do their own buying. You are not their mother!

But remind them that they don't *need* hipscarves if they don't want to buy them. A regular scarf tied around the hips looks and works just fine and is easier and cheaper to get (if they don't already have some). Personally, I don't even wear actual hipscarves anymore.

Originally Posted by yameyameyame

If they want hipscarves, you can recommend vendors. Then they can go ahead and do their own buying. You are not their mother!

But remind them that they don't *need* hipscarves if they don't want to buy them. A regular scarf tied around the hips looks and works just fine and is easier and cheaper to get (if they don't already have some). Personally, I don't even wear actual hipscarves anymore.

Fred Meyers has a bunch of nice, long scarves in their seasonal clearance right now- perfect hip scarf weight and length- not too long for skinny little me to drag on the floor, but long enough for our larger dancers too. We used some to pair with our saidi dresses this summer, and now they're even cheaper!

Originally Posted by Lara L

Fred Meyers has a bunch of nice, long scarves in their seasonal clearance right now- perfect hip scarf weight and length- not too long for skinny little me to drag on the floor, but long enough for our larger dancers too. We used some to pair with our saidi dresses this summer, and now they're even cheaper!

Also, sarongs can be great to use. I have one sarong I use as a scarf all the time. You just have to think outside the box!

I actually don't mind vending some items for my students, and actually prefer it to providing 'loaner' items. But only if vending is convenient for me and only if the small profit makes it worth the effort! I keep it manageable by buying only a medium number of hip scarves at a time, and lugging them to class for the first two weeks of each term (four times a year) only. I then attempt to sell off any leftovers at a discount at the end-of-year concert or another event. I have an assistant who processes the sales, in exchange for free classes. I buy stock either wholesale direct (I club together with other local dancers to put in a joint order), or opportunistically, such as when another supplier is selling off their own supply. Sometimes if a vendor comes to a local event, I might buy up their remaining stock at the end of the night at a discount.

I don't mind holding stock of hip scarves because I find most students buy them and so the stock moves (eventually). I also usually try and arrange a one-off bulk order of props if we're learning them in class. For other items such as music CDs, I might just let the students know when I'm making my own purchase, and invite them to purchase their own and share postage costs.

But if I was working another job full-time, I could understand this being too much of a pain to want to bother!

I plainly tell my students that I want them to be more committed and spending money on things is a way to be committed.
I will loan out a few things to new students, but I tell them they must have the L Rose troupe set to start out.

If they just want to take classes, that is totally fine. But if they want to participate in our performance opportunities, they have to take some ownership.

A road trip to a festival or workshop with multiple vendors would be a great opportunity for them to see what's available and realize there are many independent sources for dance goodies - if there are ever any within driving distance of you. The ones who don't go will gush over the items brought back by the ones who do. I vividly remember my first trip to Rakassah West as being quite an education in that regard.

contact Nourhan Sharif to see if she has a wholesale lot of the nicer Egyptian hip scarves, but remember that they are heavy. I have actually bought a few right here on the bhuz swap meet....it is possible that some bhuzzers may want to part with a few gently used hip scarves, LOL I know that I have WAY too many in my stash and will check it out next week, but I have given away most of my beginner quality stuff. Huggs!