Thread: How to deal with territorial teachers?

Hi all. I recently moved and am thinking about teaching again. There is a definite lack of teachers around here so I know there is plenty of students to go around. However, there is one teacher in the area and she has me concerned. I know from past dealings with her that she is probably very territorial to say the least. This isn't something I've ever dealt with myself because where I came from I've always been part of a very open dance community. So I'm not sure what to expect and consider going into this. I know plenty of you out there have dealt with this, so I would be interested to hear any advice you have. Thanks!

Originally Posted by dima

Hi all. I recently moved and am thinking about teaching again. There is a definite lack of teachers around here so I know there is plenty of students to go around. However, there is one teacher in the area and she has me concerned. I know from past dealings with her that she is probably very territorial to say the least. This isn't something I've ever dealt with myself because where I came from I've always been part of a very open dance community. So I'm not sure what to expect and consider going into this. I know plenty of you out there have dealt with this, so I would be interested to hear any advice you have. Thanks!

No one has exclusive rights to an area but it is always courteous, I believe to observe certain niceties:
1.If You have something different to offer than this teacher, emphasise it.
2.If possible a different timetable.
3.Unless absolutely impossible, a different venue. (I have taught in the same venue,on the same night as teachers I know well) but they were students from a previous class,I never expanded the class nor advertised and now we operate as a troupe)
4.Don't undercut her fees.

Hopefully you will attract a new set of students. Mostly students are very loyal to their first teacher but should some come to you, you might want to say you are uncomfortable with that..on the other hand..we don't own our students

It's never going to be easy dealing with someone who has had it all her way for years. Wether you contact her first to inform of what you are doing is really down to what you know about her. There is little point contacting her if all you are going is aggro. But if she is the kind of person you can have a chat with over coffee, you can inform her in advance of what you are proposing. After all you may manage to attract a whole new cohort of student and this would benefit her if you want to hold joint functions or you have students who want to go to more classes with different teachers.
Bear in mind I am speaking from a UK perspective where towns are often smaller or close to each other and we can be swamped with teachers..or have a desert!

Originally Posted by dima

Hi all. I recently moved and am thinking about teaching again. There is a definite lack of teachers around here so I know there is plenty of students to go around.

How do you know there are plenty of students? A lack of teachers can also be due to a lack of students. There are very few places where teachers are turning away students from overcrowded classes right now. Having more students than this other person can currently teach will be a different situation than if she has a captive audience and some of her students have been waiting for the opportunity to "escape" to a new teacher.

However, there is one teacher in the area and she has me concerned.

I'm not clear--is she the only teacher in town, or the most territorial one out of a couple of teachers?

So I'm not sure what to expect and consider going into this.

Seriously? If this person is that difficult of a diva, you can expect defensive, resentful behavior, possibly even backstabbing and overt attempts to sabotage your business and ruin your reputation. "Territorial" often translates to "unethical, immature, and paranoid." Teachers who know they're good aren't threatened by other dancers, because they know that no matter how good this other person is, they still have value. With the exception of the occasional eccentric genius, the teachers who act crazy are usually the ones who secretly know or fear they're not good enough to withstand the threat (even when the "threat" is in their own heads because the other person isn't trying to challenge them).

What do you do? Try to be the best, most ethical teacher you can. If you want to give her a heads up and say that you hope you can collaborate with her in the nebulous future, that's polite, but you don't have to if you're afraid it will make things worse. This person can't stop you from opening a business, and if you take the moral high ground, she'll either eventually realize you weren't out to get her, or she'll show her true colors and undermine herself.

Also, watch what you post online. Nothing sets a paranoid person off more than finding out people really are talking about them behind their back.

If it were me, I would try not to start classes too close to their location. "Too close" will vary from place to place, but in my area I would say anything above 10 miles should be OK (although that isn't always possible, and some people would find reason to feel threatened regardless of distance).

I would also not do anything to "steal" that person's students, so that means not actively advertising to them specifically, but of course if a student came to me I would not turn them away.

As a teacher, I am very liberal with the information I give. I am very familiar with a lot of instructors all over my state, I have studied with some, taken workshops with others, or otherwise have seen how they dance and how their students dance. I am also very familiar with events that go on, and where. I share this information with my students so that they can study with whomever they wish. If the student asks, I talk about other people's teaching style so that they get a sense of whether or not it is something they are interested in, but I do it in a matter-of-fact way and not a judgemental way. They can do the judging on their own.

If someone comes to me from another teacher, I do not do anything to actively discourage them from attending that person's classes, but as they develop as dancers, if they feel like a particular instructor (including myself) isn't what they need, I won't try to convince them otherwise, either.

I am all about guiding people into the path that's right for them, and not about making those decisions for them, which is what territorial teachers do. I want to see dancers develop more than anything. It makes me happy to be able to help, much more than it would make me happy to have a large student base and a following. If I am the person they choose for help that's great, but if I am not then I am happy to help them find the right person.

So, being that I have that kind of attitude, it would be very hard to suck me in to any kind of territorial drama. If the other teacher can't see what I'm all about, and still feels threatened, I'd do my best to ignore whatever drama she tried to create... and that's it...

What have you got to lose by communicating with her directly in a cordial and businesslike manner? You can reach out to her and offer to meet for coffee and try to coordinate your efforts in some way, (I mean by scheduling different class nights, not scheduling events on top of one another, etc.)

If she is unprofessional and/or unkind at that point, you will know where you stand with her.
Hope for the best, and as others said, conduct yourself with the best practices (integrity, good business skills, etc.) and don't look back.

How do you know there are plenty of students?

For one, it's one of the most populated places in the state but teacher count is low. There are teachers in the outskirt areas, but just one in the city and none in the next city over. In addition to that, my teacher (who is an hour away) gets plenty of inquiries from people here looking for classes. If there are that many people considering driving an hour to take classes, there must be a shortage.

I'm not clear--is she the only teacher in town, or the most territorial one out of a couple of teachers?

As far as I can tell, the only one in town. The next closest is about 30 minutes away.

1.If You have something different to offer than this teacher, emphasise it.

From what I understand I have a very different style than her, so I don't think there is much cross over there. She also has a lot of emphasis on her religion in her classes, whereas I do not include any religious stuff in my classes. So people who are uncomfortable with her approach would be likely to come to me instead of giving up on taking classes. The irony is that I am the same religion as her, I just don't include it in my classes.

2.If possible a different timetable.

Already got that covered. She has pretty limited class times that I think would not work for most students. So again no direct competition there.

3.Unless absolutely impossible, a different venue.

Also covered. Totally different.

4.Don't undercut her fees.

The place I am considering teaching at would have a say on the fee, but from what I can tell it would be close to the same. It might be a bit cheaper for "members" but that's kind of the way it works there.


I guess my main concern with making contact is opening myself up to the "I've been dancing longer than you've been alive so I can tell you what to do" mentality. As lplmuk put it, taking aggro. Basically she's been shockingly, jaw on floor tongue hanging out rude to fellow dancers in the past and I don't want to deal with that. But I probably will at some point, so how can I do it on my own terms so to speak, ya know? I don't want or like confrontation, but I have a strong feeling it's going to happen. So I may as well be prepared.

I wouldn't approach her, actually. Whether she is territorial or not, I don't think it's any of her business what you decide to do and you shouldn't give her the impression that she has a voice in your matters. Do your thing, be ethical about the way you run your business and treat your competitors, be cordial if she approaches you, and that's that. Some people will still try to create drama even without a motive, and if it happens to you, your conscience will be clear and then you can decide how to handle it depending on exactly what is happening. Nothing happened yet so I wouldn't worry about it much.

Well said, yameyameyame! Certainly gave me some insight!

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Reading your original post I don't understand what is giving you the impression that she is territorial...so it's very hard to advise.

Originally Posted by dima

...
From what I understand I have a very different style than her, so I don't think there is much cross over there. She also has a lot of emphasis on her religion in her classes, whereas I do not include any religious stuff in my classes. So people who are uncomfortable with her approach would be likely to come to me instead of giving up on taking classes. The irony is that I am the same religion as her, I just don't include it in my classes...

?? What religion is she that is has anything to do with the dance??
This alone would have me seeking another teacher.
There is a teacher out there for everyone. Different students are looking for different things.
I understand your thought that it IS nice to have a conversation, or something... to start positive communication... but that could start trouble. IF she is territorial, and you go to her to say you're starting classes, she will say "no," maybe even through a fit and you'll be stuck going against what she said. She'll have your conversation as "evidence" to start drama.
Research well. Don't advertise in the same physical places (like leaving fliers), make it clear you are offering something different. Try to make your classes on different nights if possible. Be professional and be ethical.
If she starts drama, you have two options. 1) take the high road, and just keep being professional and ethical or 2) Remind her that her actions/words are not very (insert her religion of choice), THEN take the high road.

Reading your original post I don't understand what is giving you the impression that she is territorial...so it's very hard to advise.

Things she has said in the past. Like talking loudly to her students about the person performing, telling them things along the lines of "that's why you don't do xyz, because you will look terrible like the dancer on stage" loud enough the person dancing (a noobie dancer) can hear along with everyone else. To me, that's something a territorial teacher would do. Bad mouthing students of other teachers loudly so others can hear her "expert advice" and choose to go to her classes. Or going up to other teachers after they perform and telling them "you're not the dance style you say you are, you're actually this. I've been dancing for a gajillion years so I know."

?? What religion is she that is has anything to do with the dance??

Well that's just it. It doesn't really have anything to do with it. Like any religion you could make vague connections to certain things because dance is very emotional. But she's so overly religious about it that it makes me uncomfortable, and I'm the same religion!

I understand your thought that it IS nice to have a conversation, or something... to start positive communication... but that could start trouble. IF she is territorial, and you go to her to say you're starting classes, she will say "no," maybe even through a fit and you'll be stuck going against what she said. She'll have your conversation as "evidence" to start drama.

This helped me to realize my issue is that I am very community oriented. I like to know other dancers, make friends, go to their workshops and watch them perform. I like to support the local community by really making it an open and friendly place to dance. If I am at a renaissance faire dancing (I do a few every year with my group) and there are other dancers we try to introduce ourselves and be friendly, or even invite them to dance with us sometimes. So for me moving in to a new area and not making friends with the local teacher is against what I normally want to do. But I know how rude and unprofessional she is and that staying away is probably the best thing to do. It just goes against my gut reaction so much I have a hard time feeling like it's OK.

Remind her that her actions/words are not very (insert her religion of choice), THEN take the high road.

This made me chuckle a little, because it's very true

Just wanted to say something from the other point of view...
In my area, class sizes are small, very small. To the point of losing money slow. It could be that the area, even with only one teacher, is already saturated. If there are four people who want to take a beginners class, and two go to you and two go to the other teacher, then you both lose.

This is something that I am currently very concerned with. I live in a small community and I have a small following of intermediate/advanced. But a new teacher in the area would ensure that my beginner classes will not form, and hers won't either. Now
, three or four years ago, it would have been great because I was turning students away. But not in today's economy. I didn't tell this teacher not to open up shop, but I did tell her that I didn't think she would be successful at this time.

Originally Posted by SamiraShuruk

?? What religion is she that is has anything to do with the dance??
This alone would have me seeking another teacher.

Right? Boy, you never know what sort of thing folks are going to project onto this dance. Not that using any dance form as a positive force in the world via your choice of religion is wrong (in fact it could be a very good thing), but it seems to me that would be something one would only share with a select few close like-minded confidants, not the world at large.

Do other dance forms have this sort of spin put on them from time to time?

Slightly off topic, but I wanted to say I love your website Nabila!

Originally Posted by Nabila-Nazem

Right? Boy, you never know what sort of thing folks are going to project onto this dance. Not that using any dance form as a positive force in the world via your choice of religion is wrong (in fact it could be a very good thing), but it seems to me that would be something one would only share with a select few close like-minded confidants, not the world at large.

Do other dance forms have this sort of spin put on them from time to time?

I´m also so puzzled...
Agree very much with Samira Shuruk;I would actually rather seek out other teachers than going to one like that.

(OT: somehow this reminds me of when my chiropractor started to hold classes in tantric sensual massage and tried to book one class for me and hubby...we declined the offerNext time he tried to sell me noni juice,and that was it-I broke up with him)

On the religious front: I'm actually surprised at other people's surprise. I would assume that she is some flavor of Pagan? Probably one of the 'women empowered' types? (BTWM, I'm a Wiccan Priestess myself, so I've got a little knowledge). I don't take it into my dance classes, but there are entire troupes that are based on Goddess worship.

And, to be fair, maybe she's been burned by 6 week wonders moving into her town. Lots of folk have been there.

As to the rest-keep above the fray, make nice, never insult her, reach out and offer to sponsor haflis together. That's how communities are built-by not making students choose. And being the better person.

ok, no more lurking....make what you do that others do not , what you promote. where i am, each teacher does something different. one is into "fantasy" another american tribal/fusion, another sorta boot camp..another all egyptian.there is enough so all students can learn what they want.so upsell what you do that the others are not into.....and smile!