Thread: Student teaching your choreography?

Hi lovely ladies, I wasn't able to find the direct answer to this question in the threads here.

I taught a workshop a while back, teaching a specific choreography. I told my students they were welcome to perform it, as they had paid for the choreography, just to please give me credit.

One of the students performed it at a BDSS related event (with credit) in another province, and is now being asked by the locals if she'll teach it in a workshop. I'm not sure how I feel about this. She's a friend and has asked my permission, but I feel like maybe this is crossing some intellectual property boundaries. What would you do? They're certainly not going to fly me out to teach the choreo...at least I don't think so!

Thoughts?

Thanks,
L

Hmmm, just found this thread that shed some light:
Teaching Someone's Choreography.

Would still love to hear your thoughts on my particular case. :)

Originally Posted by laurasbelly

Hi lovely ladies, I wasn't able to find the direct answer to this question in the threads here.

I taught a workshop a while back, teaching a specific choreography. I told my students they were welcome to perform it, as they had paid for the choreography, just to please give me credit.

One of the students performed it at a BDSS related event (with credit) in another province, and is now being asked by the locals if she'll teach it in a workshop. I'm not sure how I feel about this. She's a friend and has asked my permission, but I feel like maybe this is crossing some intellectual property boundaries. What would you do? They're certainly not going to fly me out to teach the choreo...at least I don't think so!

Thoughts?

Thanks,
L

My personal take is that I'm happy for students to perform my choreography, (ideally with credit being given), but while I'm still using that particular choreo for teaching purposes, myself, I won't give permission for students to teach it to anyone else. It's a teaching tool that I've created, and as long as I'm making money from it, it's *mine*. If a group of students wants to learn it, then they can pay me to come teach it to them direct, rather than some other teacher making money from it, or them learning it badly from a non-teacher who is relating it second-hand.

In the past I *have* given students permission to teach one of my routines, because they were in another country and it was unlikely that I would be invited to go & teach there, or because it was a choreography that I was more or less finished with, and wasn't planning on teaching again.

If you really think about it, what bothers you about this? Is it that you are concerned this other dancer is taking some measure of glory in terms of reputation for your work? That you are not confident she can represent your choreography the way you want? Simply that she is making money off of your efforts instead of her own? Something else? (There's no "right" answer, but framing it in these terms may help clarify things.)

Teachers teach other dancers' choreographies with varying degrees of ethics and success all of the time. No one thinks there is much wrong with taking a workshop from a different teacher to learn a choreography by Bobby Farrah (who is deceased) or Mahmoud Reda (who doesn't tour to most places). Teachers on the workshop circuit expect that the smaller-market dancers who learn their choreographies will turn around and teach them to their students and troupemates who are not in attendance. There is also some expectation that this second-generation teaching will happen when a dancer makes a DVD, even though most people concede that this is cutting into the producing teacher's fair right to earn money.

When you have a reputation that can withstand someone piggybacking off your work, it is easier to shake this off, but when dancers of more modest reputation are in this situation, it is understandable that it feels like a personal threat. If there is no chance that you would get the workshop gig, and the act of holding this workshop does not interfere with your value as a teacher, as long as you are acknowledged as the source and you are comfortable with the other teacher's ability to teach your work, it is not the worst thing in the world. Right or wrong, putting yourself in a position where you are vulnerable to other people taking credit for and making money off of your creative output seems to be an unavoidable consequence of reaching a point in your career where students who don't know you personally want a piece of you. Honestly, if you have a clip of yourself performing this routine online, some student out there may already be misappropriating it, and giving you far less due that this circumstance would.

I agree with bea- though I could see selling the rights to a choreography if it were truly not feasible to get you to the client. No idea what that would entail.

I think the most professional response would be for your friend to decline on grounds of professional courtesy, and make sure the folks know it is your choreography.

& congrats on leaving such a strong impression!

[ETA- maybe suggest that your former student ask the local organizer to contact you directly to discuss either bringing you in or negotiating a licensing fee?]

Laurasbelly - it's your choreography, I think you should be teaching it (and making the money from it). Unless there are dire geographical reasons for you not being able to do it. Teaching a workshop is different from perhaps incorporating the choreo as part of a normal teaching session. I have taken bits of choreo's from famous teachers back to my class and taught them in order to inspire, inform, give a different take on the dance, but never a whole choreo (I can't remember them or dance it like they did!). I can't teach it like the original teacher and would do a bad imitation.

I think if a person is giving a workshop, and taking money to do so, they should be able to come up with something original that will given the students a taste of their style of dance, knowledge, experience.

It's always difficult when it's a friend who is asking. But I think people can take advantage of this as well, without realising they are.

For myself, if it was a choreography that I am still using and teaching myself, then I would usually not grant permission. In this situation, I think it would depend on how you feel about it. One option I don't think that has been mentioned yet would be to charge a fee for the other person to teach the choreography.

When I teach choreography in classes or workshops, I always tell the students that they have permission to perform it and alter it with credit, but not to teach it without specifically getting permission from me. I usually decide whether to give that permission based on where I am in using the choreography, the skill of the person who would be teaching, and my own personal feelings about it. I also require that it is labeled as my choreography in the advertising materials and in the class itself.

These aren't totally useful for where you are now, but, just in case it helps someone, my standard set of choreographic permissions is:

Choreography by Mahsati: Usage Guidelines

Choreography In Class/Workshops:
If I teach a choreography in class the student is granted performing rights to that choreography. They can dance it anywhere they like and I ask to be credited whenever possible. They do not have teaching license for the choreography.
[Perform: Yes; Teach: No]

Choreography in Troupe:
If I teach a choreography to my troupe, they only have rights to perform that choreography as part of officially sanctioned troupe gigs. They cannot perform it outside of the troupe. They do not have teaching license for the choreography.
[Perform: Only with Official Troupe; Teach: No]

Commissioned Choreography:
If I am commissioned to create a choreography for a troupe or individual dancer, then that dancer/group receives all performance and teaching rights to the choreography. I give up all teaching and performing license to that particular choreography.
[Perform: Yes; Teach: Yes]

Retired Choreography:
If I am no longer teaching or performing a choreography, then I will often post it on my website as free use. I request choreography credit when teaching or performing the choreography. These are fully open use.
[Perform: Yes; Teach: Yes]

When in doubt, ask Mahsati. Additional usage permissions may be granted upon request.

Mahsati, That is very clear. I think I will add something similar to my student troupe guidelines.

I am with the consensus. If you are currently teaching it (maybe even if you aren't), there's no reason to arm a competitor with your product. You're not creating choreography and teaching as a public service, you are doing it as a business.

I started adding this header to the top of my printed choreography sheets:

This dance is yours to perform, if you wish to. I would appreciate choreographic credit, if possible. If you adapt the dance, you may say the dance was based on or adapted from choreography by Latifa. This dance is for Latifa’s students only and cannot be taught to others without permission.

Whether I give permission to reteach really depends on the circumstances.

What gives me pause is that students elsewhere might be taught a watered-down version, or the person teaching it might not understand and/or not be able to convey the reasoning behind the choreography. You have no control over the finished product, which will have your name attached to it.

Maybe you could Skype a coaching session? At your usual coaching rate?

This whole idea is weird to me.
If they love the choreography, they should have you teach it. If they love the dancer, they should have her teach her specialty. This dancer performing your choreography isn't giving them a good feeling for her or for you.


That being said, if I liked the student and I knew she would give me credit and do a good job teaching, I would support her in it, given that this is a special situation. It's not like she is teaching it to people who might come to you.