Thread: Why do we do what we do?

I think a lot of belly dance teachers do things the way they do because they're just continuing the example their teachers set for them. Ie, the way they warm up is the way their teachers warmed them up, etc.

On a different thread, Kashmir said:
With stretches I was taught to always have a purpose. What are you stretching with a warrior pose for instance? How does it relate to a belly dance class? Do belly dancers need turn out (butterfly pose)? More to the point, do you screen your students for hip joint issues which make this exercise painful and counterproductive?

For those of you who teach, how much do you rely on class structures, warmup formats, step combinations, student recital formats, and other things that match what your teachers did when you were a student? Or have you discarded some things and replaced them with your own ideas?

At what point did your classroom structure change from copying what your teacher used to do, and become a structure based on a more conscious purpose?

By the time I started teaching, I had taken dance and fitness classes from a very wide range of people, with very different routines and techniques. All of them made more sense to me and felt better than what we had done in gym class at school, by the way, so it wasn't too surprising when I took a women's fitness course which discussed some of the old fashioned and male centric paradigms, but that's getting a bit off topic! Seeing how different the warm ups and stretches were for BD and African dance and fencing and jazz dance and ballet and skiing all were, I think it was quite natural to start asking why, and discovering on my own what was accomplished with different things and engendering a desire to know more. Of course, I was also exposed to Kashmir relatively early on through the old MEDlist group, which helped direct my inquiries!

So, I have a standard warm up to get the body moving & blood flowing, followed by a secondary warm up/drill phase where we target specifics of what we will be working on in class that day, and that portion may look different from week to week. Stretches at the end are also tailored to what we are specifically working on.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

For those of you who teach, how much do you rely on class structures, warmup formats, step combinations, student recital formats, and other things that match what your teachers did when you were a student? Or have you discarded some things and replaced them with your own ideas?

I don't "follow what someone taught me"; I do what I want to that works for the group I'm currently dealing with. I've changed lesson plans mid-stream to make them easier or more meaningful for the students I'm dealing with at the time. I've changed choreography one week before a hafla because some were struggling so hard with what I originally planned. I'd rather they be joyous about whatever it is we end up doing than stressed out and aggravated to the point of never wanting to do it again.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

At what point did your classroom structure change from copying what your teacher used to do, and become a structure based on a more conscious purpose?

From the very first class I taught.

i was lucky..i had a dance life style all ready. but i watched how others struggled...back then, it was you got it, or "oh well". i formed much of what i do around what I DID NOT SEE OR HEAR done.....how i would have liked to have been taught. i also learned everyone needs their own magic words to "get it", i do not stop trying to explain untill i see the ah ha moment. the only things i have carried on with is the vast vocab. of steps and the old school format of the pan arab "routene" or "set".....the use of zills, the ritual of floor.
thank you shira..i am looking forward to how the answers differ with style.

It was interesting to me watching Cory's teaching DVD because it's obvious that Cory herself has fundamentally solid, good, core-driven posture (which is NOT always the case with dancers who started Back Then), and whether that's due to years of prior dance training, or just innate physical good fortune, I cannot know. Kashmir has often pointed out that certain dance styles or other physical activities are self-selecting: when people say "but so and so has done yoga stretches on a cold body for 40 years and they're never injured", that person is going to be someone for whom those kinds of stretches are not going to be harmful. People who can't do X or Y safely get injured and stop. That's why people who can't do X or Y safely don't generally stay in the field.

As a person who is not a physiotherapist or other physical specialist, I don't like to use muscle terminology too much because the chances are very high I am getting it wrong... so I did like Cory's use of analogies in her class. I am a big fan of analogies and interesting descriptors because for a lot of people they are the thing that makes you go AHA! far more than somebody going "blah blah psoas ilio tibial whatsit". It's not necessarily a style or age thing that distinguishes whether a person uses muscle talk or analogies (and you can teach interior-driven dance without muscle talk).

Something else I learned that was useful for me was not to push to correct everything at once. I would see someone dancing in class and they weren't getting their hands right, and would want to correct that. But my teacher used to say, well, they need to get that hip work solid FIRST before you direct them off to thinking about their hands, they haven't got it yet so where the hands are is OK for now. So you might see a dancer whose arms are a bit sucky, but whose other skills have come up tenfold in a couple of months; it's not fair then to assume that dancer is lazy or that dancer's teacher is not good enough. It's a bit like when you see a woman walking down the street who weighs 200 pounds and you think "O SHE IS SO FAT SHE SHOULD DIET AND EXERCISE"... but what you don't know is that she used to weigh 350 pounds and she works out five times a week.

I have learned a lot more useful teaching methods since I've been taking adult ballet, because my teacher is bloody good, but I have to translate it into bellydance mode not just use it wholesale. Most of it is not useful for BD, but a few things are.

As for purpose, while I use a similar structure to the one my teacher used, I know that the way I teach basic movements is Gendi Plus: what I got from her, plus what I've worked out for myself, and then often additional bits and bobs I've gained from still other teachers.

I am a very interior person, so it's not surprising that I started focusing a lot on how movements were generated in my own body. I'm not a natural dancer so in order to learn how to do something I often have to break it down a LOT, and that is helpful for teaching.

I’m only 10 months into teaching.

It had been approximately 2 years “off” between taking weekly classes with my primary teacher and starting to teach at a friend’s studio. In that time, with my teacher’s blessing, I focused on performing weekly and taking monthly workshops from a variety of visiting teachers and local talent…and learning how to take responsibility for how I learn.

How I teach is more built around the work I put in learning to set goals and structure my own at-home practice once I did not have a weekly or twice weekly class to create a structure for me. My at-home practice pulls from a wide variety of workshops, teachers, prior teachers, dvds, and more. I also draw heavily from my day job where I teach communication skills within an English structure to Japanese students is teachers…because the process of doing that makes me constantly focus on my teaching goals and layer visual, verbal, and audible cues in my teaching methods.

It’s an evolving thing.

Before I started teaching belly dance I'd already spent some time as a High School teacher. So lesson planning, goals, alternative activities and approaches etc were second nature. In addition to my normal class teaching (physics, maths, computing etc), I had also attended specialist dance teaching workshops which I applied both to the dance option and some special needs work.

Before I started belly dance teaching I also had the good fortune to attend classes with some very good teachers. Two of these (Shareen el Safy and Cassandra Shore) I had some opportunity to discuss teaching methods and class structure with. And then there was my physio classes with Michael Dalgleish (and later the QUT tutors). So I had lots to pick and choose from.

But even with all that input, five years after I started teaching I started making some modifications due to doing a Certificate in Dance Teaching. During this course we were pushed into examining our approach; we got independent feedback; we made modifications and looked at why we did this or that. Challenging - but very rewarding.

That said, I find those things you learnt first as a student are the parts that are hardest to modify. In fact sometimes they are hardest to examine rationally at all. So every now and again I try and do a self check.

I was thinking just on the warm up/fitness level, heh. Love all the diverse responses!
My over all teaching structure is an ever evolving thing. I did start with my first teachers notes, as much as a reminder as anything, but I quickly found that I needed to develop my own flow. For my beginner sequence, I wanted to focus on basic moves that would prepare folks for going into whichever style they eventually chose with a good foundation, even if they didn't continue with me. I taught at the University (recreational club, not credit class) and knew a lot of my students wouldn't be sticking around long term. I found that I needed to break things into 6 week sessions to keep attendance up, so I split my material into 4 segments and tried to look for a common link. For me, that turned into what I called in my head (not to students) a pre-taxim, a pre-drum solo, a veil & spinning intensive and a folk steps/traveling intensive. There are other basics which were standard and worked into every session as well, but this way folks could take those 4 sessions in any order they liked or as their schedule allowed and I would still know they are getting a good, solid foundation and not missing bits and pieces of what I consider basic. That worked so well, I decided to arrange my intermediate/advanced class topically by semester, and only later added a drill class for universal technique later. I think my brain just works better when I am compartmentalizing a bit, whereas many of my teachers in the past have had a more free flowing structure. I am sure they had goals and plans and logic behind what they were teaching at any given time, but it was not necessarily apparent to me! I'm okay learning that way, but it is hard for me to plan that way, so the drop in drill classes (which are very much tailored to what the people who show up need most) are more of a challenge for me.

Originally Posted by Zumarrad

It was interesting to me watching Cory's teaching DVD because it's obvious that Cory herself has fundamentally solid, good, core-driven posture (which is NOT always the case with dancers who started Back Then), and whether that's due to years of prior dance training, or just innate physical good fortune, I cannot know. Kashmir has often pointed out that certain dance styles or other physical activities are self-selecting: when people say "but so and so has done yoga stretches on a cold body for 40 years and they're never injured", that person is going to be someone for whom those kinds of stretches are not going to be harmful. People who can't do X or Y safely get injured and stop. That's why people who can't do X or Y safely don't generally stay in the field.

As a person who is not a physiotherapist or other physical specialist, I don't like to use muscle terminology too much because the chances are very high I am getting it wrong... so I did like Cory's use of analogies in her class. I am a big fan of analogies and interesting descriptors because for a lot of people they are the thing that makes you go AHA! far more than somebody going "blah blah psoas ilio tibial whatsit". It's not necessarily a style or age thing that distinguishes whether a person uses muscle talk or analogies (and you can teach interior-driven dance without muscle talk).

Something else I learned that was useful for me was not to push to correct everything at once. I would see someone dancing in class and they weren't getting their hands right, and would want to correct that. But my teacher used to say, well, they need to get that hip work solid FIRST before you direct them off to thinking about their hands, they haven't got it yet so where the hands are is OK for now. So you might see a dancer whose arms are a bit sucky, but whose other skills have come up tenfold in a couple of months; it's not fair then to assume that dancer is lazy or that dancer's teacher is not good enough. It's a bit like when you see a woman walking down the street who weighs 200 pounds and you think "O SHE IS SO FAT SHE SHOULD DIET AND EXERCISE"... but what you don't know is that she used to weigh 350 pounds and she works out five times a week.

I have learned a lot more useful teaching methods since I've been taking adult ballet, because my teacher is bloody good, but I have to translate it into bellydance mode not just use it wholesale. Most of it is not useful for BD, but a few things are.

I am so honored ! deep thanks ...bright blessings!

Originally Posted by Zumarrad

It was interesting to me watching Cory's teaching DVD because it's obvious that Cory herself has fundamentally solid, good, core-driven posture (which is NOT always the case with dancers who started Back Then), and whether that's due to years of prior dance training, or just innate physical good fortune, I cannot know. Kashmir has often pointed out that certain dance styles or other physical activities are self-selecting: when people say "but so and so has done yoga stretches on a cold body for 40 years and they're never injured", that person is going to be someone for whom those kinds of stretches are not going to be harmful. People who can't do X or Y safely get injured and stop. That's why people who can't do X or Y safely don't generally stay in the field.

As a person who is not a physiotherapist or other physical specialist, I don't like to use muscle terminology too much because the chances are very high I am getting it wrong... so I did like Cory's use of analogies in her class. I am a big fan of analogies and interesting descriptors because for a lot of people they are the thing that makes you go AHA! far more than somebody going "blah blah psoas ilio tibial whatsit". It's not necessarily a style or age thing that distinguishes whether a person uses muscle talk or analogies (and you can teach interior-driven dance without muscle talk).

Something else I learned that was useful for me was not to push to correct everything at once. I would see someone dancing in class and they weren't getting their hands right, and would want to correct that. But my teacher used to say, well, they need to get that hip work solid FIRST before you direct them off to thinking about their hands, they haven't got it yet so where the hands are is OK for now. So you might see a dancer whose arms are a bit sucky, but whose other skills have come up tenfold in a couple of months; it's not fair then to assume that dancer is lazy or that dancer's teacher is not good enough. It's a bit like when you see a woman walking down the street who weighs 200 pounds and you think "O SHE IS SO FAT SHE SHOULD DIET AND EXERCISE"... but what you don't know is that she used to weigh 350 pounds and she works out five times a week.

I have learned a lot more useful teaching methods since I've been taking adult ballet, because my teacher is bloody good, but I have to translate it into bellydance mode not just use it wholesale. Most of it is not useful for BD, but a few things are.

I have this video as well as almost all of Cory's videos, and her warmups and workouts are very unique. They fit exactly what the video is made up of. Very well tailor-made.

And yes, you are so right on pre-conceived notions. Even those of us who have been dancing a longer time and are considered pretty well finished, are always a work in progress.

Some examples of things that today's belly dance teachers might do simply because they're carrying forward the example set by their teacher:

• Structure classes in sessions of 6-8 weeks long, vs structure classes in ongoing format without a specific beginning/middle/end
• Call their first 6-week class "beginners", the next "intermediate", the next "advanced", so that a student who finishes 18 weeks of classes thinks of herself as "advanced" vs using a different approach to promoting students and naming classes
• Use Level 1 as a place to teach the complete vocabulary of elementary belly dance moves vs use Level 1 as a place to teach a beginner-level choreography
• Teacher uses yoga a lot in the warmup
• Teacher uses a lot of the same "conditioning" exercises as ballet/modern/jazz classes use - plies, seated hamstring stretches, barre work, etc.
• Saying "everyone can be in the troupe" vs setting certain requirements that would-be troupe members must meet
• Focus classes on troupe work (keeping lines straight, learning/rehearsing choreographies, etc.) vs focusing classes on activities that will help students develop solo skills
• Treating "dance" as "a movement vocabulary" as opposed to teaching a package of dance = movement + musicality + culture
• How much correction is offered at beginner level vs more experienced levels - different philosophies

Originally Posted by *Shira*

Some examples of things that today's belly dance teachers might do simply because they're carrying forward the example set by their teacher:

• Structure classes in sessions of 6-8 weeks long, vs structure classes in ongoing format without a specific beginning/middle/end
• Call their first 6-week class "beginners", the next "intermediate", the next "advanced", so that a student who finishes 18 weeks of classes thinks of herself as "advanced" vs using a different approach to promoting students and naming classes
• Use Level 1 as a place to teach the complete vocabulary of elementary belly dance moves vs use Level 1 as a place to teach a beginner-level choreography
• Teacher uses yoga a lot in the warmup
• Teacher uses a lot of the same "conditioning" exercises as ballet/modern/jazz classes use - plies, seated hamstring stretches, barre work, etc.
• Saying "everyone can be in the troupe" vs setting certain requirements that would-be troupe members must meet
• Focus classes on troupe work (keeping lines straight, learning/rehearsing choreographies, etc.) vs focusing classes on activities that will help students develop solo skills
• Treating "dance" as "a movement vocabulary" as opposed to teaching a package of dance = movement + musicality + culture
• How much correction is offered at beginner level vs more experienced levels - different philosophies

This is good stuff.

You're right too, a lot of it is beside the point - or could even be misleading, or hamper the learning process.

More importantly, I think what you're saying, what the thread is saying, is that AS TEACHERS we have to keep learning and not be afraid to say, ok, just because this is what I was told/taught/thought was right, maybe I'm wrong and need to evolve. This is true not just about belly dance per se but also about fitness. For example, recent studies have shown that stretching before warm-ups isn't so good for the body and can actually weaken muscle. Ergo, we've had to evolve regardless of what we were taught!

Students aren't just works in progress, teachers are too, if we're honest with ourselves!

We're never done learning are we?

Originally Posted by zamora

I am so honored ! deep thanks ...bright blessings!

I recommend Cory's videos to students all the time and I have them myself.

Originally Posted by Elibelinde

More importantly, I think what you're saying, what the thread is saying, is that AS TEACHERS we have to keep learning and not be afraid to say, ok, just because this is what I was told/taught/thought was right, maybe I'm wrong and need to evolve.

We're never done learning are we?

I think that once someone starts teaching, she's in danger of falling into a rut. At first, she's overwhelmed with logistics - finding a place to teach, marketing the classes, scheduling dates, tracking who has paid what, buying insurance, etc. Then she enters the classroom and starts discovering which of her approaches to teaching moves work versus which doesn't. Often she mimics the way her own teacher taught and did things, just because that's the easiest path to take.

So then, what happens once the teacher has gotten past the startup hassles and settled into a routine? I think there's a danger there, of becoming complacent.

A lot of people view workshops as being their continuing education, and rightfully so. However, what, exactly, does a teacher take away from attending a workshop? Does she just learn whatever choreography/combinations/technique were taught? Or does she thoughtfully look at the workshop instructor's teaching methods, ways of explaining moves, class structure, types of corrections offered, etc?

For example, during a warmup, does a teacher think about how the workshop instructor's approach to warmup differs from her own and whether there's something useful about it she can bring into her own classroom? Or does she just mindlessly follow the warmup without consciously thinking about what she can learn from the way this particular teacher warmed people up?

Originally Posted by Elibelinde

This is good stuff.

You're right too, a lot of it is beside the point - or could even be misleading, or hamper the learning process.

More importantly, I think what you're saying, what the thread is saying, is that AS TEACHERS we have to keep learning and not be afraid to say, ok, just because this is what I was told/taught/thought was right, maybe I'm wrong and need to evolve. This is true not just about belly dance per se but also about fitness. For example, recent studies have shown that stretching before warm-ups isn't so good for the body and can actually weaken muscle. Ergo, we've had to evolve regardless of what we were taught!

Students aren't just works in progress, teachers are too, if we're honest with ourselves!

We're never done learning are we?

i get calls all the time from students who do NOT want a 6 or 8 week contract.they do not like being forced to know x amount of steps in a set amount of time. also, the studios who do, ask for the fee all up front. if someone is not happy after a month, they should be set free to find what makes them happy . where i am, 99% are not looking for a "recital" in x amount of weeks.

ooops ! i do not know what happened !...i was responding to shira.

What Shira said:

I think that once someone starts teaching, she's in danger of falling into a rut. At first, she's overwhelmed with logistics - finding a place to teach, marketing the classes, scheduling dates, tracking who has paid what, buying insurance, etc. Then she enters the classroom and starts discovering which of her approaches to teaching moves work versus which doesn't. Often she mimics the way her own teacher taught and did things, just because that's the easiest path to take.

So then, what happens once the teacher has gotten past the startup hassles and settled into a routine? I think there's a danger there, of becoming complacent.

Too true. It happens to performers, it happens at day jobs, to painters and other visual artists too. Oddly enough it can happen most of all if you succeed at doing what you're doing, then you have no reason to change.

Maybe one of the hardest things in the world is to constantly question, what am I doing? So, maybe that means being uncomfortable on some level, all of the time.

But, it's the only way we get better!

Originally Posted by zamora

ooops ! i do not know what happened !...i was responding to shira.

I figured, no worries:)

Shira on workshops:

A lot of people view workshops as being their continuing education, and rightfully so. However, what, exactly, does a teacher take away from attending a workshop? Does she just learn whatever choreography/combinations/technique were taught? Or does she thoughtfully look at the workshop instructor's teaching methods, ways of explaining moves, class structure, types of corrections offered, etc?

For example, during a warmup, does a teacher think about how the workshop instructor's approach to warmup differs from her own and whether there's something useful about it she can bring into her own classroom? Or does she just mindlessly follow the warmup without consciously thinking about what she can learn from the way this particular teacher warmed people up?

Well, at best you'd be looking for any way at all to improve or add a bit of knowledge. Maybe a lightbulb goes off and you say, well, that felt GOOD so I'll do it. I was at Sonya's one time and she did a deep squat as part of a warmup.

I thought aha. So, I added it my warmup.

Another workshop, Mahira and Serafina put on an annual convocation called "Boo-Yah!" So this year I attended a couple of them, both were interesting and thought provoking, but one was a lecture on Oum Koulthoum by Felicia Elias, so it didn't directly involve dance as such.

The other though was a workshop on Melaya Leff, by Galatea; and it was valuable because, although it could have gone on all day I thought, in the time we had the teacher conveyed not only background about the dance but quite a few steps and chunks of choreography as well so one came away with real insight about this particular form. Then later in the evening she performed it and you could see the whole thing, not just the bones of it, but the dance itself.

You can't really ask for more.

Originally Posted by zamora

i get calls all the time from students who do NOT want a 6 or 8 week contract.they do not like being forced to know x amount of steps in a set amount of time. also, the studios who do, ask for the fee all up front. if someone is not happy after a month, they should be set free to find what makes them happy . where i am, 99% are not looking for a "recital" in x amount of weeks.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

Some examples of things that today's belly dance teachers might do simply because they're carrying forward the example set by their teacher:

• Structure classes in sessions of 6-8 weeks long, vs structure classes in ongoing format without a specific beginning/middle/end
• Call their first 6-week class "beginners", the next "intermediate", the next "advanced", so that a student who finishes 18 weeks of classes thinks of herself as "advanced" vs using a different approach to promoting students and naming classes
• Use Level 1 as a place to teach the complete vocabulary of elementary belly dance moves vs use Level 1 as a place to teach a beginner-level choreography
• Teacher uses yoga a lot in the warmup
• Teacher uses a lot of the same "conditioning" exercises as ballet/modern/jazz classes use - plies, seated hamstring stretches, barre work, etc.
• Saying "everyone can be in the troupe" vs setting certain requirements that would-be troupe members must meet
• Focus classes on troupe work (keeping lines straight, learning/rehearsing choreographies, etc.) vs focusing classes on activities that will help students develop solo skills
• Treating "dance" as "a movement vocabulary" as opposed to teaching a package of dance = movement + musicality + culture
• How much correction is offered at beginner level vs more experienced levels - different philosophies

Some of these things I think a teacher would be well advised to reconsider, certainly (like the movement vocabulary vs. movement+musicality+culture, but some of these can be well considered, totally legitimate decisions. Both Shira and Cory bring up the 6-8 week session as something that potentially needs changing- and I agree, it doesn't fit everyone's needs, but I found that for my target audience, it was the most efficient way to cater to the needs & desires of my clients and still make sure they were getting a comprehensive foundational technique. Saying everyone can be in the troupe is a legitimate choice if that is what the individual instructor really wants. It depends on the goals of the troupe. So, basically, while I think these are all things to consider, I want to caution against using these as straight up indicators that an instructor hasn't carefully considered what she is doing and presenting.

6-8 week sessions are common because teachers need some money up front and students need manageable chunks of time/money, not because people think they're going to go on stage in that amount of time (I hope)!

You never know.

Seriously unless you have a home studio and can just keep rolling indefinitely, how else are you going to structure a class?

Some are quarterly, that's true, as in an academic or fitness setting, but 6-8 weeks is normal simply because they make sense money-wise, also because people don't know if they're going to like it or not and may be reluctant to commit to more.

Alas it's too bad we can't take apprentices! That would be more appropriate.

Originally Posted by Lara L

Some of these things I think a teacher would be well advised to reconsider, certainly (like the movement vocabulary vs. movement+musicality+culture, but some of these can be well considered, totally legitimate decisions.

I agree - I didn't mean to give the impression that in each of my line items I felt one of the options was "good" and the other "bad". In many of my line items, I think either approach is fine.

I simply meant that whatever a teacher does, she should do it with intention rather than simply mimicking what her own teacher used to do. Plus, she should continuously update her skills in areas such as exercise safety, knowledge of dance trends, etc.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

I agree - I didn't mean to give the impression that in each of my line items I felt one of the options was "good" and the other "bad". In many of my line items, I think either approach is fine.

I simply meant that whatever a teacher does, she should do it with intention rather than simply mimicking what her own teacher used to do. Plus, she should continuously update her skills in areas such as exercise safety, knowledge of dance trends, etc.

Dance trends: this is kind of an issue - do we really have to keep up with all the trends?

Some of us are not trendy.

Alas!



Seriously, we are kind of anti-trendy!

Which is kind of the point of what we do - does this make sense? It's not trying to be old fashioned, whatever; it's just that what we're trying to teach isn't about the surface, it's about what's inside, how to express that.

Originally Posted by Elibelinde

Dance trends: this is kind of an issue - do we really have to keep up with all the trends?

Some of us are not trendy.

I think it's helpful to have a general awareness of trends so we won't be caught off guard if a student asks about some youtube clip they saw, or if you go to a hafla with your students and they have questions about the performances by other people's students.

We certainly don't have to TEACH all the latest trends or even mention them in our classrooms. But I think it's a good idea to know what is going on in the marketplace, since it can affect us.