Thread: Nature of Haflas

I did a questionaire with attendees at my hafla on Sat with some interesting ( and some predictable) results and I thought these might be useful for other organisers especially in the UK.
main pointers:

1.They see the "hafla" as a show NOT a party and were supportive of the full performance platform and not that interested in "bopping time" I was surprised.In fact they liked the idea of staging for a better view.

2.A minority though quite sizeable wanted the band back for live music.But mostly they'd much rather dance to CDs and they like group dances. I think Egyptian musicians scare them!

3.They were overwhelmingly in favour of self catering (bring a dish) even though I did point out this can end up costing them more in the long run.
I have to say the food was fabulous and I had a coupla gals from my class who just took the burden of setting out and running the buffet offa me!

4. Only one person wanted to keep the music "pure" They LIKE Beyonce and Shakira...<<<resigned sighs>>..cr.: And another stated if people really want to they can dance to Arabic music!..c::

5. Unsurprisingly they do like it cheap. The entrance fee was nominal to cover expenses and a little for effort!
So they'd pay to have a caterer OR a band but not both!!!!

6. A very satisfying comment came from one dancer.."I liked the non-competative atmosphere". I think was was largely due to the fact we now have 5 local teachers with very different approaches and big variety of dancing styles which makes comparison quite difficult.The non belly dancers brought along seemed very happy and I had messages from mums and sisters about how they'd loved it.

So all in all that's a useful exercise. I could ignore them and put on a splendid do with our UK Egyptian Band and hot running buffet and ask them for somewhere in the region of £15-£18 but guess what they like to make their own food, dance in groups and pay £3 or £4 .
And though I can put up with wall to wall classic Egyptian belly dance ( with a tad of Turkish and Tribal) for the majority it's the spice of variety.

And the barmaid who told me "Oh, belly dance .I'd love to do that but that's not for the likes of me is it?" got told to watch what she could and ....she came to me at midnight to say "I'm off to >>>>>>>>'s class on Monday"..g.:

That's really interesting Kadife. Thanks so much for posting that.

The price thing corresponds to my own experience. I asked my students before our recent student hafla if they wanted to have a buffet or not. They voted for cheaper prices and no food which surprised me (being overly concerned with my stomach...)

and they definitely want to bop to pop CDs, preferably ones I use in class. Put on a 'classic' and the floor empties!

Kadife,

I love number 4. That's like going to a vinyard, bringing along your own beer and then saying it's okay if they make wine there and others drink it. heh heh heh.
..c:: ..l;,

I sympathise with the perspective that a hafla should be primarily a show. Haflas are, in some areas, one of the few opportunities for both professionals and non-professionals to perform in some sort of staged performance, as opposed to a restaurant or other venue, so I can see why people are so interested in preserving the integrity of the performance showcase. Personally, I prefer it if free dancing is reserved for after the show, so that everyone can relax and have fun and so people who aren't interested in socializing can leave if they wish. I also think that proper staging is a great idea, again because most venues don't offer the staged dance experience.

The food issue makes sense to me, too. I've been to haflas starting at 7:00 p.m. where the ticket price was hiked to cover the cost of a buffet. From my perspective, if I'm dancing I will already have eaten, and the quality of the food at haflas in my area doesn't justify the associated cost.

Could it be that some of your attendees just don't enjoy Middle Eastern food, if that's what you serve? That's what's always served at haflas around here, and, if that isn't to someone's taste, I can see why they would prefer to prepare and bring their own dish, even if it cost more, to know that there would be something there they could eat.

God I'm quite surprised at some of the results ... shame only one person was after the "purist" stuff. And I thought that was what the Hallowe'en / Diva haflas were for - please, no, not the rhinestone cowboy ...

I'm definitely in favour of bringing own food though, it worked really well the other night and it was all good stuff. So often it's disappointing at haflas, or if you're performing, you don't want to eat until later by which time it's all gone. With the "bring a dish" ones, there's usually heaps left.

I've always thought a hafla was a party..c:: . An informal performace by dancers for dancers and families would be a "recital" wouldn't it?

A hafla I hosted at an SCA event was in a 30x30 canvas tent, carpeted with oriental rugs, moroccan tables with middle eastern finger foods and Persian rose water. Gently lit by torches and hanging candle lanterns the musicians jammed and dancers danced into the night. When you got tired of dancing you sit, chat, or play with the band, and nibble delicacies. Now that's a hafla!

Interesting results. I held my first hafla last year and it was a very, very informal event. No band, no caterer, no shopping, no DJ just lots of people socialising. The no DJ thing worked out rather well, because it meant the music was always at a reasonable volume so people who didn't want to dance could talk - maybe I'm getting old but I like to be able to hear the person next to me without shouting! We had a few performances, but not so many that it became a show rather than a party. The rest of the time people seemed happy to eat and drink and occasionally watch. Bringing your own food worked out well, like Kathy said there was too much rather than too little. I only regret being so nervous I didn't get to eat all the lovely things people had made! I got great feedback on the event, although I have to be honest, most people there had never been to a hafla before. For my next one I'm planning more professional performances and, in the light of Liz's comments, a Beyonce CD!

Originally Posted by Arwen

I've always thought a hafla was a party..c:: .


That's my point so did I?!

An informal performace by dancers for dancers and families would be a "recital" wouldn't it?

By informal you mean inpromtu well no, everything is planned if mostly amateur dancers. I don't think scousers would use the word recital.."show's word"..l;,


A hafla I hosted at an SCA event was in a 30x30 canvas tent, carpeted with oriental rugs, moroccan tables with middle eastern finger foods and Persian rose water. Gently lit by torches and hanging candle lanterns the musicians jammed and dancers danced into the night. When you got tired of dancing you sit, chat, or play with the band, and nibble delicacies. Now that's a hafla!

Gosh ,how posh yes I do agree that's hafla and folks would love that but you must have funds available I don't!
The thought of hiring a tent! ..cr.: My pension won't stand for that..mind you I have got a bottle of rose water to put in the ladies loo ( I really must learn to say lavatory or William's lot will never have me!)


But you know, the Yemeni teacher present at ours fully understood that a hafla ain't really a hafla in the UK.p:: ..for her , a hafla's a few friends and family around at someone's house (or tent)having a knees up.

To tell the truth my ideal halfa would be to have our Egyptian band, as they used to be, 3or 4 guys playing Egyptian classics and pop for soloists and when they have a rest local classes group dances perform to CD, catered food by our local caterers who put on a buffet with a nod towards the Lebanese cuisine that everyone can cope with then lots of bopping time. A grand collection of bazaars .Absolutely no Beyonce!!! But hey I'm outvoted and I know neither version is really hafla in Arabic terms but ......

Originally Posted by Ainsley

I sympathise with the perspective that a hafla should be primarily a show. Haflas are, in some areas, one of the few opportunities for both professionals and non-professionals to perform in some sort of staged performance, as opposed to a restaurant or other venue, so I can see why people are so interested in preserving the integrity of the performance showcase. Personally, I prefer it if free dancing is reserved for after the show, so that everyone can relax and have fun and so people who aren't interested in socializing can leave if they wish. I also think that proper staging is a great idea, again because most venues don't offer the staged dance experience.

Exactly on the opportunity but the staging is problematic. I hire medium size venues with small stages, useless for groups. I am hiring a theatre for a performance platform which is a different scenario

The food issue makes sense to me, too. I've been to haflas starting at 7:00 p.m. where the ticket price was hiked to cover the cost of a buffet. From my perspective, if I'm dancing I will already have eaten, and the quality of the food at haflas in my area doesn't justify the associated cost.

Could it be that some of your attendees just don't enjoy Middle Eastern food, if that's what you serve? That's what's always served at haflas around here, and, if that isn't to someone's taste, I can see why they would prefer to prepare and bring their own dish, even if it cost more, to know that there would be something there they could eat.

Some love it , some have never tasted it and yes some prefer sausage rolls .
Some of the bring a dish certainly had a ME or Meditteranean flavour and the caterer I normally hire is capable of food which leans towards ME but it generally popular.

On the point that "haflas" are supposed to be parties... I think it probably depends where you are. Around here, "hafla" normally refers exactly to an informal performance by dancers for dancers and their families. When people host a party with the occasional performance plus shopping or whatnot, they normally call it something else, strangely enough. So last spring a dancer hosted a "Bellydancer's Bazaar," for example. The word "recital" I associate with performances by students from a particular school or set of schools, not with shows that include professionals.

I know an organized performance bares little resemblance to the original meaning of "hafla," but, I guess, as Kadife says, nothing we call "hafla" is really the same as what is meant in the ME.

ladies loo ( I really must learn to say lavatory or William's lot will never have me!)

No, "loo" is very good. The Queen probably says loo. WC is good, though I'm not that sure about "lavatory" to be honest.

"Toilet" is the hated revealer of non-U tendencies. You must never say "toilet" to be a proper posh person.

Maybe part of the issue is that to say something like, "it's the arabic word for party" doesn't exactly help, since party is such a vague word in English.

I mean, a birthday party and a Tupperware party are both parties, but are very different. My office holiday party was one of those participational dinner theater things, and all of us were assigned roles to play (oh, that was awful!) and it had a script!

Well . .....you see our lovely Kate M. lost her Prince Willy 'cos her mum said toilet instead of lavatory.... but I have a plan..marry off our princess Colleen, fiance of footballer extraorinaire Wayne Rooney instead to prince Willy and she will eventually be Queen Colleen. Trouble is being a scouser like what I is she probably calls it the sh*thouse and anyway she's too good for the Windsors.

[QUOTE=lizajuk;7323]Gosh ,how posh yes I do agree that's hafla and folks would love that but you must have funds available I don't!
The thought of hiring a tent! ..cr.: My pension won't stand for that..mind you I have got a bottle of rose water to put in the ladies loo ( I really must learn to say lavatory or William's lot will never have me!)

The tent belongs to our SCA group, and it took many people bringing their rugs, tables, lanterns, and other decorations from home. The only thing we laid out money for was food- and it was a pot luck! Where do you live? If you are interested in renting a canvas tent, check with your local SCA or other historical re-enactment group. If they rent out their tent, it will be much cheaper than going to a regular rental place. 99 times out of 100, there are dancers in your local SCA group who might be interested in coming too- and are always potential students.

Originally Posted by Arwen

I've always thought a hafla was a party..c:: . An informal performace by dancers for dancers and families would be a "recital" wouldn't it?

A hafla I hosted at an SCA event was in a 30x30 canvas tent, carpeted with oriental rugs, moroccan tables with middle eastern finger foods and Persian rose water. Gently lit by torches and hanging candle lanterns the musicians jammed and dancers danced into the night. When you got tired of dancing you sit, chat, or play with the band, and nibble delicacies. Now that's a hafla!

I totally agree with you, *that* is a real hafla. (Do you go to Pennsic? This sounds a bit like Your Inner Vagabond.)

I am just coming home from a dance and music jam, at a house that's decorated a bit like a Turkish coffee house (the home of YIV, in fact) , and we had live music and all kinds of delicacies. And, tomorrow, we will have a Jalsah - what a hafla is supposed to be: no performances, just live music, and dancing, some food, some space for hanging out.

Originally Posted by steffib

I totally agree with you, *that* is a real hafla. (Do you go to Pennsic? This sounds a bit like Your Inner Vagabond.)

I am just coming home from a dance and music jam, at a house that's decorated a bit like a Turkish coffee house (the home of YIV, in fact) , and we had live music and all kinds of delicacies. And, tomorrow, we will have a Jalsah - what a hafla is supposed to be: no performances, just live music, and dancing, some food, some space for hanging out.

I've only gone to Pennsic once. I live in Montana and it takes three days to drive there. I flew, but my friend, who was Queen at the time, drove by herself. What a nut. Estrella War is more popular out here because it's closer. Pennsic is awesome though, I'd love to go back. I think I just should have taken up residence in the Middle Eastern Studies tent, I hardly ever came out! Baron Durr's haflas are famous throught the Known World. Wonderful dancing and wonderful musicians! And Turku!

Originally Posted by steffib

I totally agree with you, *that* is a real hafla. (Do you go to Pennsic? This sounds a bit like Your Inner Vagabond.)

I am just coming home from a dance and music jam, at a house that's decorated a bit like a Turkish coffee house (the home of YIV, in fact) , and we had live music and all kinds of delicacies. And, tomorrow, we will have a Jalsah - what a hafla is supposed to be: no performances, just live music, and dancing, some food, some space for hanging out.

Was there a ticket price? If there was, NO it wasn't a halfa either as I understand it is just a party in the ME, a group of friends partying together in a home. I am very much aware that what we do in the West isn't really a hafla..we have been lambasted on the old Bhuz for that fact.

And we do not have your Renn Faires here and we could hire authentic tents from museums and specialists firms but it would cost an arm and a leg. You are very lucky to be able to come up with an arrangement like that and maybe I should bow to you all and rename our modest do's a recital or party or whatever.

Originally Posted by lizajuk

Well . .....you see our lovely Kate M. lost her Prince Willy 'cos her mum said toilet instead of lavatory.... but I have a plan..marry off our princess Colleen, fiance of footballer extraorinaire Wayne Rooney instead to prince Willy and she will eventually be Queen Colleen. Trouble is being a scouser like what I is she probably calls it the sh*thouse and anyway she's too good for the Windsors.

..l;,

If they see it as a show, do they think that class performances/beginner performers are OK, or are they expecting the top dancers/teachers to dance only?

I must say I am continually surprised by what people want. I would love a nice hafla with a buffet and a band and bopping time. Or if I had to choose, keep the band,& bring a dish. How out of touch am I.

Actually, yesterday - yep, no door fee. Tomorrow, for the Jalsah - we will be at a restaurant space that is rented, so we all pay a door fee - or the event wouldn't happen. Whether that is authentic or not - nobody here cares.

In particular, I am not saying that it's East vs. West, or an authenticity thing (yikes!) - being about as unauthentic as one can be myself as a German ;-) dancing to Turkish music played by Americans. I am sure a real purist would pull out their hair at us. But, it's a matter of having fun - and a kind of fun that many dancers are not aware of that it can be had, I sure wasn't before I encountered that scene.

I suspect that the reluctance to get up to live music is a form of intimidation - I know to some degree I still am intimidated by live musicians, and I have many, many hours of live music dancing under my belt and I have socialized with musicians quite a bit.

And, while a nice tent with the whole fix-ins helps, it is not about the decorations: a period-style tent is low, and will often have poles in the middle of the room, which is not so good for dancing. Heck, even yesterday night at my friends' place, I hit their Moroccan lamp like a pinada and had to be super-careful not to fall over a musician. Rather than the decoration, I think it is about the music and the people. What I'd admit - it's kinda fun to have a sightly enactment-inspired event because it encourages people to dress up. It's just nicer to dance and watch dancers in a big skirt and lovely jewelry as compared to jeans and t-shirt.

Here, a musician friend of mine was not all that happy with the performance-oriented haflas, so she teamed up with another musician and they do what they call a Jalsah, and Arabic term that means gathering. Musicians get together and play music, dancers join them on the dance floor. Amazingly, it has taken off - we have the fifth installment tonight, and one drummer has flown in from Indiana just for this event!

My first hafla experiences were also in the SCA, and they were open dance and just fabulous. I also had talked to Arabic friends, and their haflas were parties/get-togethers with food and friends and usually music as well.

I felt out-of-place the first time I went to a BD-community hafla and it was all performanced based. It was nice, mind you, but not what I expected.

Now I goto "mundane" haflas if I know some of the dancers and want to support them, but personally, i much much prefer an SCA hafla, and i think I would LOVE Jaslah. I need to make a trip to Pitts for one ;-)

Originally Posted by lizajuk

Well . .....you see our lovely Kate M. lost her Prince Willy 'cos her mum said toilet instead of lavatory.... b Trouble is being a scouser like what I is she probably calls it the sh*thouse and anyway she's too good for the Windsors.

Puhleezzee.....can we be any more pretentious!

Excuse my USA ignorance, but what's a scouser, because it sounds like I would be a scouser too? maybe?

Originally Posted by steffib

Actually, yesterday - yep, no door fee. Tomorrow, for the Jalsah - we will be at a restaurant space that is rented, so we all pay a door fee - or the event wouldn't happen. Whether that is authentic or not - nobody here cares.

In particular, I am not saying that it's East vs. West, or an authenticity thing (yikes!) - being about as unauthentic as one can be myself as a German ;-) dancing to Turkish music played by Americans. I am sure a real purist would pull out their hair at us. But, it's a matter of having fun - and a kind of fun that many dancers are not aware of that it can be had, I sure wasn't before I encountered that scene.

I suspect that the reluctance to get up to live music is a form of intimidation - I know to some degree I still am intimidated by live musicians, and I have many, many hours of live music dancing under my belt and I have socialized with musicians quite a bit.

And, while a nice tent with the whole fix-ins helps, it is not about the decorations: a period-style tent is low, and will often have poles in the middle of the room, which is not so good for dancing. Heck, even yesterday night at my friends' place, I hit their Moroccan lamp like a pinada and had to be super-careful not to fall over a musician. Rather than the decoration, I think it is about the music and the people. What I'd admit - it's kinda fun to have a sightly enactment-inspired event because it encourages people to dress up. It's just nicer to dance and watch dancers in a big skirt and lovely jewelry as compared to jeans and t-shirt.

Here, a musician friend of mine was not all that happy with the performance-oriented haflas, so she teamed up with another musician and they do what they call a Jalsah, and Arabic term that means gathering. Musicians get together and play music, dancers join them on the dance floor. Amazingly, it has taken off - we have the fifth installment tonight, and one drummer has flown in from Indiana just for this event!

When I posted this thread I was in no way dreaming to give advice to US organisers. I did say my information was going to be of more interest to UK folks. I am very much aware that you will do everything bigger and better over there. Remember we are light years behind you.
I am sure , my cousins ,if you saw a "hafla" DVD of mine you would find our shin digs very basic.
I really didn't need it rubbing in my face that what I manage to achieve is in no way you would ever call a proper hafla.,f::
We have one or two bands we can call upon, inclement weather even if I could beg and borrow a tent from the local scout troop. You are as I say very fourtunate to put on such a superior form of hafla. We did have some very good dancers at this last hafla, good food and everyone seemed to have a ball...g.:
I used the main forum as not all UKsters on Bhuz are using using the groups ( which appear to be dieing anyway). I am sorry for even posting my findings frankly. ..cr.: And embarassed to think that what I found out would be of any use to anyone.<<Crawls back into her corner>>

Huh, what is happening there? I am sorry if in any way I was offending you by sharing my experience with haflas, events that are very important to me. Offending was never my intention, and I would never try to give you "advice".

[QUOTE=steffib;7769]I totally agree with you, *that* is a real hafla. (Do you go to Pennsic? This sounds a bit like Your Inner Vagabond.)

...which begs the comparison, others are not........cr.:

Originally Posted by Arwen

I've always thought a hafla was a party..c:: . An informal performace by dancers for dancers and families would be a "recital" wouldn't it?

A hafla I hosted at an SCA event was in a 30x30 canvas tent, carpeted with oriental rugs, moroccan tables with middle eastern finger foods and Persian rose water. Gently lit by torches and hanging candle lanterns the musicians jammed and dancers danced into the night. When you got tired of dancing you sit, chat, or play with the band, and nibble delicacies. Now that's a hafla!

...and the modest shindig in a church hall under the gaze of Our Lady with a music system and a mundane offering of food is by comparison. .....

I don't think I'd be alone in thinking I should forget calling whatever I organise a hafla. < there isn't a smilie for a rueful shrug of the shoulders and a hang-dog expression.>

I am very sorry if that came across as personal - that was not my attention. To me, an event with live music and a lot of atmosphere and magic (which happens at the under-the-stars events in a strange way) has something very, very special. But, whatever event you put on, and whatever your community enjoys - that is yours, a hafla is a community event.

But, believe me - if I get excited about these experiences, I would not dream of judging you - what a jerk would I have to be to do that! I tip my hat at everybody who organizes events - and I support them (through attending, dancing, mingling, cheering on every performer and encouraging everybody to attend) even if the organizer's vision does not line up with mine - of course!

But, in all fairness, you opened a discussion on what people would like to see at a hafla - and some of us have shared what we feel is essential to a hafla, and that happens to be a tad different of the often-seen even with performances. To me, a performance-focussed event, no matter how much fun it is, is not at the core definition of a hafla. That does not mean that other events that are different are any less wonderful.

Taking this thread into a slightly different direction...

Kadife, I agree that the type of event you described which offers performing opportunities to student and hobbyist dancers is delightful! I'm not at all surprised that you have received feedback suggesting that this is the type of event people prefer to patronize.

However...

I know a lot of people in our dance community call such performance-focused events haflas, and as I get to know more Arab people I'm finding myself thinking we should find a different term for them.

Perhaps instead of "hafla" (which has certain connotations to Arabs, whose language the term comes from), it might be better to call these performance-focused events something like "dancer showcases" or "student nights" or "recitals"? The term "student night" was used a lot in California when I lived there to refer to events that offered performing experience to students and hobbyists.

Based on what I experienced in Egypt, I have come to think of a "hafla" as being more participatory. Ie, instead of wearing dance costumes, people wear normal party attire. There is no pre-set list of "performers", but rather it starts with lots of good food, some enjoyable conversation, and then impromptu dancing. People take turns getting up and dancing a bit, perhaps for one song. Eventually everyone is on her feet and dancing.

So I'm not suggesting that anyone abandon organizing the costumed performance events, I'm just suggesting folks might want to think about calling them something other than "hafla".

Originally Posted by *maria*

Puhleezzee.....can we be any more pretentious!

Excuse my USA ignorance, but what's a scouser, because it sounds like I would be a scouser too? maybe?

Scouser is an inhabitant of the city of Liverpool.
In Brit English, Upper classes say lavatory and lower middle class toilet. The rest of us bog,loo and worse!
Strictly speaking attending to one's toilet means not to clean the loo but smarten and clean one's self ( notice the use of one )

These differences belie the fact that we are supposed to be becoming a classless society. How can we while we have a monarchy and an aristocracy/ruling class in many cases descended from the Normans ?Then we have second on the rung the multitudes of Germanic Anglo Saxons and down at the bottom of the pile we Celts!!! yehey woad and wild ginger hair according to Hollywood.
Yes of course things are blurred and merit can rise but get up to the twittering "old money" (which often hasn't got any and thinks more of horses than people), they are often straight down the line from William and his conquering knights.
Oh and Liverpool is full of Celts so you're lucky if the WC gets called a toilet!..g.: I jest I jest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!