Thread: Scholarly articles spin-off

Originally Posted by indigostars

However, even if they're not getting paid to publish, their publications count. [...]That's what I'm thinking about re. if they're not being paid or if there is no grant or stipend supporting their work, what are the benefits of being published in this journal?

Thanks for your post, you bring up some good points. I wanted to address this one, though.

Why are we assuming that dance publications don't count? I'd pay to study with a teacher after learning about/from her reputable body of work.

Why are we assuming that there is no grant or stipend supporting dance research/writing? Why don't we just budget it in, to either grants or regular fees?

We've seen some successful troupes include their group costumes into their budgets (not all, but some). A similar step could be taken to budget in hiring a dancer/researcher for a talking workshop, or for publication/research of a chosen topic. There's always going to be money shortages, but good budgeting can target a lot of problems. If there's money enough for a Bella...

Why are we assuming that dance publications don't count? I'd pay to study with a teacher after learning about/from her reputable body of work.

It isn't that dance publications don't count but that a new journal started by relative unknowns may not be a help when applying for tenure and making a name for oneself. This isn't anything about the caliber of what journal may be but just a reputation thing. Does that make sense? Are there enough established researchers in Middle Eastern dance who are willing to participate in this kind of project and who may not need many publications in well-established journals?

Originally Posted by indigostars

It isn't that dance publications don't count but that a new journal started by relative unknowns may not be a help when applying for tenure and making a name for oneself. This isn't anything about the caliber of what journal may be but just a reputation thing. Does that make sense? Are there enough established researchers in Middle Eastern dance who are willing to participate in this kind of project and who may not need many publications in well-established journals?

OK, got it. Thanks for clarifying.

Yeah, this thread has gone two ways... it started as a call for raising the level all across (to any publication), and has turned into potentially creating a new journal/resource. Interesting to see what comes out.

Reputation will be hugely important.

Originally Posted by Teophania

Why are we assuming that there is no grant or stipend supporting dance research/writing? Why don't we just budget it in, to either grants or regular fees?

Putting my MBA hat on....

The primary inhibitor I see to seeking a model that involves collecting money from some sources (whether grants, donations, or access fees paid by users) is that introducing money into the picture adds a HUGE amount of administrative work and technical setup work. Enormous.

• What kind of legal entity would need to be set up to administer this? Once money gets involved, you pretty much need a partnership or LLC or non-profit corporation or other legal entity. There will be a need to track income regardless of the source, as well as expenses, and to pay taxes - sales taxes, possibly income taxes if for-profit, etc.
• Where would the income come from? If from users/readers, then there's the need to track who paid what, deal with customer service issues when they want their money back for whatever reason, set up the web technology to allow only paying users to see the articles, deal with technical glitches if someone who is entitled to access an article can't, etc. The technical work is non-trivial - it requires a great deal of sophistication in knowledge of web site programming languages. And I suspect the customer service issues will be non-trivial as well.
• If the income comes from grants, then that means some sort of non-profit corporation would need to be set up in order to be grant-eligible. That means a non-trivial amount of administrative overhead with respect to legal fees to set it up, creating by-laws, having a board of directors that meets regularly, demonstrating that a certain amount of operations come from volunteers, etc. It's ugly.
• Regardless of where the funding comes from, who receives the income? The peer reviewers? The authors? The business entity that provides all the administrative work of web site maintenance and financial accounting/reporting and its employees/contractors? What % gets allocated to each stakeholder? At startup time, most of the income will probably need to go toward paying off startup web developer fees and legal fees. A great deal of record-keeping would need to occur to track who should paid, how much they should be paid, etc. Plus, all payments would need to be reported to applicable tax agencies, and there may be a requirement for withholding.

All of the above is needed in order for our hypothetical web journal to be able to collect money (regardless of source) and make payments to contributors. The thought of all this accounting, web development, reporting, and legal compliance makes my head hurt. It's non-trivial.

Originally Posted by *Shira*

Putting my MBA hat on....
[] It's non-trivial.

Thanks, Shira. I agree very much about the journal/resource, and your input is very valuable.

I should clarify my earlier comment. I was not talking about the producers of a resource when I said "we" could budget research/training money in. I was talking about "we" as in every dancer.

For example, dancer Jane decides to dance professionally. When deciding on her performance and teaching fee schedule, after taking into account local wages and avoiding undercutting :), Jane budgets in her studio cost, costumes, travel expenses, training, and ongoing education, which can include research. It's just a slightly broader concept than going pro and only budgeting in costumes and studio costs. It's also more sustainable.


I was just getting frustrated because pro dancers were saying that they had no money to research, whereas I think that it would be possible in some cases for them to create or find that money. Not saying it's easy or that it's possible in all economic climates to have your shiny things and write about their history too, but there are options.

This Atlantic Monthly article provides a good breakdown of how JSTOR works, and why dancers are not the only ones frustrated with the system:
Locked in the Ivory Tower: Why JSTOR Imprisons Academic Research - Laura McKenna - Business - The Atlantic

Which in turn led me to this NYT article about how scientists are starting to take the publishing process into their own hands, instituting new forms of peer review systems:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/17/sc...pagewanted=all

Maybe dancers could use an already existing resource like ResearchGate and not have to reinvent any wheels...

Originally Posted by badriya_al_ahmar

This Atlantic Monthly article provides a good breakdown of how JSTOR works, and why dancers are not the only ones frustrated with the system:
Locked in the Ivory Tower: Why JSTOR Imprisons Academic Research - Laura McKenna - Business - The Atlantic

Which in turn led me to this NYT article about how scientists are starting to take the publishing process into their own hands, instituting new forms of peer review systems:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/17/sc...pagewanted=all

Maybe dancers could use an already existing resource like ResearchGate and not have to reinvent any wheels...

These links are both fascinating. Thank you for sharing them!

Originally Posted by badriya_al_ahmar

This Atlantic Monthly article provides a good breakdown of how JSTOR works, and why dancers are not the only ones frustrated with the system:
Locked in the Ivory Tower: Why JSTOR Imprisons Academic Research - Laura McKenna - Business - The Atlantic

Which in turn led me to this NYT article about how scientists are starting to take the publishing process into their own hands, instituting new forms of peer review systems:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/17/sc...pagewanted=all

Maybe dancers could use an already existing resource like ResearchGate and not have to reinvent any wheels...

I hadn't seen that Atlantic article, but it echoes precisely what I was trying to communicate earlier in this thread. The system of scholarly publishing is broken -- we should not try to join it. We should try to join the <i>solution</i> to that broken system.

Scientists boycotting Elsevier: link