Thread: Zills at Haflas - rant ahead!

I have a bit of a rant here: I love zills, and I very much enjoy it when they are played well, but it drives me batty when at party-like events, dancers pull out the big ones, and play full-force as if it was a performance, ie. making their playing the center of the attention. I have suffered through dancers bringing the saucers at Pennsic quite a few times. It just happened again this weekend, and I find it inconsiderate when a dancer dominates the sound at a party. A hafla is not an open-air performance where one has to work on getting acoustic attention. Now, I assume that many dancers aren't quite aware of what happens; maybe posting about this on Bhuz can alert those of us are guilty of similar sins and suggest better choices?

First, I get very upset when a dancer plays over the musicians' taksims if there is live music. One problem may be that dancers are not well-educated about working with live music: A musician's taxeem is that musician's solo, it is not an invitation to take over the attention, unless one is a soloist performer. At a hafla/party-setting, it is a chance to play the base rhythm softly and provide the rhythmic background for the soloing musician. A dancer who ploughs over the taksims makes me want to scream! It is just as bad as a drummer starting to play very dominantly over another musician's taksim.

Second, it is good to work on becoming a part of the community. Everybody should have a chance to be part of the fun: if one dancer takes over with zills, that basically shuts out everybody else. I find it much better to strive to allow and encourage everybody to join in and share the fun. Playing softly is better, and my ideal would be dancers playing together.

I understand the desire to have a good time and pull out the beautiful, expensive big zills - especially when one lives in an apartment where one has to be considerate to the neighbors during practice. But, a hafla isn't necessarily the best time. And, I presume that some dancers really have the greatest time and don't realize how annoying their playing can be when it is done in some environments, even if the dancer is proficient with zills. I also suspect that we dancers learn that outside/in big crowds/with live music, it is time to get out the saucers - which is true in a performance, but it is taught less often that at a community event, things are different.

So, please - play soft, err on the side of quietness, and share the space! I found it useful to think of a dancer becoming a part of the band when playing zills esp. at community events, which means blend in. I have walked up to dancers and complimented them when I wanted to hear *more* of them, too.

At a recent show, I saw a professional dancer (who hadn't yet performed) standing around in her costume -- no coverup -- playing her cymbals to other dancers' music while they performed. Where was the dance police? .p::

I've seen that happen one time where a dancer was playing her cymbals (w/o coverup) while another danced, but the zill player was standing close to the band so she really didn't seem to distract from the dancer's performance.

I've played zills a number of times while another dancer is soloing. This can be a fun thing to add to a performance, but it should happen ONLY by pre-arrangement between the dancer and zill player. I will always wear a cover-up if doing this while wearing a dance costume myself, so as not to pull too much attention away from the dancer.
I believe most any size/weight zills can be played softly by holding them in a position that muffles the sound, but I don't know how many dancers know or practice this technique . . ?
Rosette

do you mean the 3" sets used by a band member?
ha ha, that happened once....yeah, wtf

It's one thing to be an over enthusiastic beginner but there's no excuse for those who have been around for awhile. Zills are a powerful musical instrument and should be used discreetly when in a group/community setting.

That said, it is fun to cut loose and play zills when there is some big drum circle thing happening (not necessarily belly dancing). But in those situations I've usually been the only zill player in attendance.

It also bothers me when drummers who play off the beat drum along with the more experienced musicians. I can't stand it. We only allow that at the very end of a show or gathering, to encourage everyone to participate. Can't stand bad drumming OR bad zilling.

People, play well or play very quietly, please!

But we are probably preaching to the choir here on Bhuz.

I am glad that teachers are still teaching students to play finger cymbals. They need to include zill etiquette in the lessons.

Originally Posted by dunyah

I am glad that teachers are still teaching students to play finger cymbals. They need to include zill etiquette in the lessons.

that's so true. maybe beginning zill classes should start with a lesson in basic etiquette before the students even learn to play. kind of like "safety first".
what do you think?

question: when a dancer does the "come on, clap!" motion to the audience, is that also an invitation for reasonable zilling/drumming?

Originally Posted by sabrinabellydancer

that's so true. maybe beginning zill classes should start with a lesson in basic etiquette before the students even learn to play. kind of like "safety first".
what do you think?

question: when a dancer does the "come on, clap!" motion to the audience, is that also an invitation for reasonable zilling/drumming?

I don't think there should be any zilling or drumming unless it's arranged in advance with the performer. I've attended haflas where audience members played cymbals without an invitation, and most performers say afterwards that they were worried during their shows because they couldn't figure out why their music sounded funny.

Originally Posted by bintbeled

I've attended haflas where audience members played cymbals without an invitation

Have we been at the same haflas?! I feel that it is rude too - it's one thing to play your zils at the end of a hafla when it's an open dancing/drumming/zilling thing - quite another to full out play zils during someone's solo uninvited.

I have even seen someone do this in a restaurant during live music on a regular night. During a dancer's show, another dancer busted out her zils at her table and started playing as loudly as possible. Other customers were like "WTF?" and the band and dancer were confused, then irritated.

Oh man, amen! My favorite is that when you're just sitting around talking say in between a workshop or before or after class and some attention whore needs to break out their zills and bang away on them for all their worth. I've heard reports of people who have come to the big club in our town complete with a coin hip scarf, gypsy skirt, viel and zills to dance the night away.

I think it's really more of an attention thing. PAY ATTENTION TO ME! I AM GOING TO BANG ON MY ZILLS AS LOUDLY AS I CAN SO YOU WILL PAY ATTENTION TO ME! Very rude!

I think that if I happen to be dancing with the troupe and one of us is soloing ot music that might benefit from zilling from another member that is always cool provided we've discussed this beforehand.

Originally Posted by sabrinabellydancer

question: when a dancer does the "come on, clap!" motion to the audience, is that also an invitation for reasonable zilling/drumming?

no.



there is/was a dancer in LA area who was notorious for playing zills during others' performances, if the dancer wasn't playing. she seemed to think that ALL BELLY DANCE PERFORMANCES MUST HAVE ZILLS and she was doing the poor zill-impaired dancer a favor. needless to say, she was not a good player.
she started banging away at something that resembled chifti telli while a friend of mine was performing to an Om Kolthoum medley, and i had to give her the Glare of Death and shake my head. i'll never forget the look on her face: No???? she was genuinely surprised that it wasn't welcome.*sigh*

Originally Posted by carolynn

no.



there is/was a dancer in LA area who was notorious for playing zills during others' performances, if the dancer wasn't playing. she seemed to think that ALL BELLY DANCE PERFORMANCES MUST HAVE ZILLS and she was doing the poor zill-impaired dancer a favor. needless to say, she was not a good player.
she started banging away at something that resembled chifti telli while a friend of mine was performing to an Om Kolthoum medley, and i had to give her the Glare of Death and shake my head. i'll never forget the look on her face: No???? she was genuinely surprised that it wasn't welcome.*sigh*

Ooh, we need a Glare of Death smilie!! ..l;,

I play zills at haflas, but ask each dancer if they would like me to or not, then don't overwhelm also. If they say no or look at all hesitant, I don't. I play well, also. I would never play without permission, and have had dancers thank me for asking (both yes and no people).

Originally Posted by jaziri

I play zills at haflas, but ask each dancer if they would like me to or not, then don't overwhelm also. If they say no or look at all hesitant, I don't. I play well, also. I would never play without permission, and have had dancers thank me for asking (both yes and no people).

Jaziri, that's exactly the way that zills *should* be played at haflas. I wish some others, who play to attract attention, would follow your lead!

gads, at a recent halloween party gig that several of us where dancing at, for the free-dance part of it, another local 'teacher/dancer', pulled out these huge salad bowl sized zills with a dulled brassy sound that completely overpowered the music, and worse, WAS NOT IN TIME TO THE MUSIC! i was warned about her, and after several of us looked at her like 'WTF', she stopped (thank gawd)....there were some present that felt she was there to 'check out the competition', cuz for years she was the only game in town, and now, in that area, there are 3 more of us teaching............

i'm still traumatized by that...................

This is my BIGGEST pet peeve. I hate it when dancers just bang away without a clue or a lesson. Especially when I am trying to dance. It should probably be a clear indication that I dont WANT zills to be played if IM NOT PLAYING THEM MYSELF. Carolynn and I have probably run into the same dancer - she is just not. good. at. all. It took me years and lots of practice to feel even slightly comfortable enough to play them. That is after years of lessons from Drummers on the proper techniques. Im glad I learned from drummers is all I can say!