Thread: When a student hits a plateau...

I have an on-again-off-again student who's been taking classes from me and several others in the community for about 4 years. I think she hit a plateau over a year ago and has ceased to improve. Part of it, I am sure, is her inconstancy of class attendance, but there's more than that. Even when she does attend for 2 months in a row I see little improvement. She'll do the moves and combinations, but she's often ahead of the rhythm, her movements tend to be large and jerky, her posture is slouched, and her facial expression is dull and lifeless when she dances. (She's of normal intelligence.) I've suggested private lessons but she won't bite. Another teacher that had this student was telling me how frustrated she was at this student's lack of progress, too. She listens to corrections in class...and then just continues to do it the same way as before. Gah! Any ideas for me?

How does the student feel?

If she's happy at her current level, let her be. If she wants to improve she has to find the motivation within herself. I understand your frustration, I'm sure we've all been in similar situations (as teacher and student!) but you can't force her to want to improve.

Does she have any issues or seem unhappy with her skill level? If she is not complaining, then she may be at the level she wants to be. Sometimes students are really trying to advance and hit a plateau, but, sometimes, they aren't that interested in improving or they just don't have the time to practice. It can be hard to see it as a teacher, but I think that the best you can do is provide a good learning environment.

It's the teacher's responsibility to teach and the student's responsibility to learn. As long as you are doing your part (and it sounds like you are a dedicated and concerned teacher), then it is up to the student to do her part. If she is distracting to the class or causing a difficult learning environment for your other students, you may want to discuss with her that you will need to move her to private lessons rather than group classes because of her sporadic attendance and whatever other factors may be relevant.

If she does want to learn more, maybe talking through her practice schedule with her and giving her homework assignments would help. Some people seem to need more structure to help keep them on track, so something like that might help her to focus.

Good luck!

I'd agree - if she is happy as she is there is less to worry about. Does she parctice out of class?

Does she have a hearing problem? I've had several students with hearing difficulties. After several years one said she suddenly realized she had missed a lot of what of what I had said during class and that music must have more than the bass drum bit!

There are also some physical issues which will make movement difficult. Another student has no feedback in her muscles - she is a great fan of the mirror - and heaps of practice. Eventually the muscles seem to learn what they need to do.

The concentrating face needs adjusting - over and over.

Yes to everything above.
Have you tried video review? Sometimes when people see their progress (or lack of) over time on video, it gives them an a-ha

I think its also important to realize that some people just won't develop beyond a certain point as dancers. I've seen several dancers who take 2 or more regular weekly classes and just never quite get there. If she has ambition that doesn't match her skill level than video coaching and guidance on realistic and achievable goal setting are probably necessary, but like others said maybe she's happy where she's at or maybe there is a physiological reason for her limitation that you are unaware of.
If it really perturbs you, then its time for a little fact-finding. would ask her to stay after class the next time you see her and initiate a conversation with something very neutral:
Hi Student, its great to see you back in class. You know, I was thinking about you the other day as I was reviewing student goals and I realized I hadn't caught up with you in a while. What are some of your short & long term goals with this dance? Are you hoping to move up to a more advanced class, or maybe even start dancing professionally? Are you looking to stay fit or keep in touch with your expressive side? (insert response here) Oh, those are great goals. Are there any things that you think might limit that-- you know physical limits, life changes like starting a family or going back to school, finances, work schedule/demands...? You don't have to disclose any details you're not comfortable with, but its helpful for me to know in general so we can set a realistic target...What can I do as a teacher and mentor to help you achieve your goals? (insert response) Great, I think I can do XYZ. I have some suggestions and pointers...
You get the idea.

oh, man, have I banged my head against this wall before!!!!



Every dancer hits one of these plateaus, sometimes they last a long time:

- Sometimes you know your heart and soul are elsewhere (family issues, work stress, personal growth) but you're keeping a toe in the dance pool for now until you can give it your all again. In those cases, not backsliding is good enough.

- Sometimes the plateaing dancer is unaware. She's content with her skills, proud of them even. This often happens when students don't view much professional dance and only compare themselves to their peers. After a while, something will happen (a workshop, a show, or just a leap in aesthetic or musical sensibility) that will motivate her again.

- Sometimes the student sees her lack of progress and is frustrated. This often happens in areas like posture or arm carriage -- areas that require DAILY practice to correct -- or those related to strength/flexibility of the body -- areas that require crosstraining. The student may want the dance skills of someone who practices daily and crosstrains, but isn't really motivated to put in the work yet. If she gets frustrated enough, she'll find the time.

Sometimes the plateau lasts forever, and represents that dancer's 'ceiling' of achievement. Every dancer will someday hit a point where any improvement/growth becomes incremental, a point where she is as good as she will be. Some students will hit this level at a such a low point in their potential that it frustrates us, as teachers. But a student will only dance up to her level of interest and motivation. If she sees dance as a fun way to get some exercise for an hour each week and make some friends, she'll need to have a low threshold of satisfaction. I have many students who've been with me for 8 or 10 years but only own one or two CDs, have never visited a website like Bhuz or watched a bellydance clip or performance video outside of the ones I put in front of them, never bought a single bellydance DVD, and don't listen to the music outside of class. They are not, IOW, very interested.

I never want to decide FOR a student that she's reached her ceiling, so it's always best to think in terms of plateaus and keep trying to help the student grow. But we also have to accept the dancer where she is. Some classes cater only to the potential pro and maintain a high standard for students, and that's fine. I try to make room for the woman who wants to have fun and get some exercise and put a little joy in her life as well, so it's a fine balance between challenging students and accepting them.

Originally Posted by Sabine

I have an on-again-off-again student who's been taking classes from me and several others in the community for about 4 years. I think she hit a plateau over a year ago and has ceased to improve. Part of it, I am sure, is her inconstancy of class attendance, but there's more than that. Even when she does attend for 2 months in a row I see little improvement. ....... I've suggested private lessons but she won't bite. Another teacher that had this student was telling me how frustrated she was at this student's lack of progress, too. She listens to corrections in class...and then just continues to do it the same way as before. Gah! Any ideas for me?

Perhaps the student just has to work that hard to stay on her plateau, and not back-slide to a previous level of development.

If you offer appropriate corrections in class, and have offered private lessons, there's not much else you can do. Keep supporting her in your professional role as a teacher, but think twice about maintaining a high personal investment in that student's eventual progress. If the student has improved in her time under your tutelage, chalk it up as a win and move on.

The fact that the student takes from so many different teachers may indicate that she is also frustrated at her lack of forward movement, or perhaps she enjoys the variety.

I do hope she isn't out there reading this somewhere. It's not very kind.

People take up bellydancing for all manner of reasons. Many are not very good. But that's not the point. There are far too many professional dancers and teachers out there fighting for spots; it's OK for there to be hobbyists who enjoy a class where they get to move a bit in a way they like and to take it no further. There are all manner of reasons why people cannot commit to an ongoing class. So long as this dancer is not out there promoting herself as a professional dancer or teaching, you really have very little to worry about. Praise her when she gets something right. Pick the most important thing for her to focus on - timing, or the technique of a movement, or expression - and leave the rest till she has that bit down.

And just think. She pays you for a dance lesson. Without these limited ability dancers holding out their money the belly dance community would be a lot less able to function.

Of course if she IS out there reading this, or if any of her friends are, the teacher's problem will have solved itself.

There's a private teachers' group on Bhuz. This is exactly the kind of issue it's made for.

So many people have already said this but. . . this student is paying you for classes right? She's not said that she feels she's reached a plateau or given you any reason at all to think that she is unhappy with her level of skill???

If she's happy then let her be. Not everyone comes to class wanting to make continual progress with their dancing. People go to evening classes for a myriad of reasons. Perhaps her motivation is just to noodle along at her own speed enjoying the class because it takes her away from the stresses of everyday life.

Yes, as a teacher you want to see your students progress and realise their potential because it's very satisfying as an instructor but some students just don't want to take things to the next level.

I have been an instructor for over 25 years and I can think of dozens of students exactly the same as yours. They came regularly to classes, supported my events etc but never really progressed as dancers but you know what? They had a great deal of fun at class and went away smiley and happy. Sometimes as an instructor you have to recognise that this is a good enough goal in itself where some students are concerned.

Lastly, I feel very uncomfortable with the fact that you added the comment about her intelligence - what difference does that make? She could be a member of MENSA but that doesn't mean that a) she's going to be a brilliant dancer or b) that she wants to be a brilliant dancer.

The suggestion to discuss this in the private instructor's group is a good one.

Couple of points:

1) What is your students aim at taking classes? Does she want to do more than she is currently doing? I know yoga students who have been attending the same beginning yoga class for 5 years and have no desire to go beyond that. They are getting what they want out of class, which is fine.

2) I understand exactly what you were saying when you mentioned her intelligence level. While not politically correct, I believe the point you were trying to make when it followed the comment about her overall listless expression, was a clarifying statement due to the fact that a listless expression many times is an outward sign of mental health issues and was not intended as a slam. I also agree with afra that it's probably not a salient point. That aside, might there be other things going on in her life such as depression, family issues, etc., where she is using dance class as an opportunity to get away from them? This leads us back to point 1.

3) I also agree with people who are saying that if you are doing your job at teaching and the student simply doesn't have the desire to learn, then aside from being supportive and offering to help her IF SHE DESIRES, you have done your job. Her not progressing is not your responsibility and not a direct reflection on you.

{{{HUGS}}}

Thanks all-
I really like your suggestions, Jessani, this sort of check-in may be a good way to start.

I didn't intend for this to be mean at all--the intelligence thing was a clarification (as tahiradancer noted) so that it was clear that the description of her listless expression was not due to mental impairment. By no means am I implying that dancers must be geniuses!

This student has asked about moving up a level, which is why I initiated the discussion. She seems to be having fun (and keeps coming back, albeit a few months at a time then she's gone again). I have no illusions about having all my students turn pro--that's fine with me that many are just there for a fun workout. No pressure there at all!

So yes, I think I will check in a little more specifically, thanks!

Originally Posted by afra14

Lastly, I feel very uncomfortable with the fact that you added the comment about her intelligence - what difference does that make? She could be a member of MENSA but that doesn't mean that a) she's going to be a brilliant dancer or b) that she wants to be a brilliant dancer.

Thanks for saying this. I too felt uncomfortable. I'm a special education teacher by day and I get be a bit hypersensitive about this subject--glad to know it wasn't just me. I'm sure the OP meant no offense but not all disabilities are obvious and the statement kind of implied that people with cognitive deficits look different than the rest of us, which isn't true. Plenty of non-disabled people have a flat affect.

My father, who was and remains extremely intelligent and much better than me at maths, has a flat affect due to Parkinson's medication. Honestly. It is so rude to imply anyone with one is "subnormal".

Besides, one of the most flowing, engaged and lovely dancers I've ever seen had Down syndrome. She was so inspiring.

Again, absolutely no rudeness intended; what I was trying to do was stave off a flow of potential answers from posters who might suggest things such as "maybe she's mentally impaired!" or "Perhaps she has Asperger's Syndrome," but it seems that conscientiousness had a whole different and unintended effect!

I work with special-needs kids, through wellness intervention projects for school teachers. I am well aware that people can make judgements based on appearance. I was actually trying to keep this from turning into that sort of discussion.

Back to the topic?

Originally Posted by Sabine

Again, absolutely no rudeness intended; what I was trying to do was stave off a flow of potential answers from posters who might suggest things such as "maybe she's mentally impaired!" or "Perhaps she has Asperger's Syndrome," but it seems that conscientiousness had a whole different and unintended effect!

I work with special-needs kids, through wellness intervention projects for school teachers. I am well aware that people can make judgements based on appearance. I was actually trying to keep this from turning into that sort of discussion.

Back to the topic?

Totally back to the topic
Sometimes the best learning opportunities come to us as teachers, not students. When you have a student like this, sometimes it can be most productive to re-frame your questions use them to guide self-reflection on your teaching practice. I don't mean that as a criticism, I just mean in general we can take these situations and ask ourselves:
why does this person keep coming back to MY class?
what do I offer serious students and what do I offer in-and-out students?
are these interests mutually exclusive, and if not how do I create a learning environment that meets the diverse needs of my population?
in what ways to I challenge myself to grow as an educator? In what ways do I continue to learn as a student?
how do I encourage growth, learning, and safe risk-taking for my students, and for myself?
You know, that kind of stuff. If you can't figure her out, you can definitely turn your questions about the student into something beneficial for yourself as a teacher. I know in my classroom and in my studio, I have to continually revisit this concept of self-reflection--especially when I'm just scratching my head in confusion.

Ok, sorry to blab on! I went back and re-read my first response, and it occurred to me that maybe nobody has ever even talked to her about her goals. Maybe she's never considered setting goals for herself as a dancer. Maybe her growth as a dancer is really a low hanging fruit --easy picking! Perhaps the solution is as simple as starting the goal setting process with her. Who knows...

Well if she wants to move up - then you can talk about one or 2 things she needs to work on. you can also make sure that she knows that she can't dance at haflas if she can't come regularly (and/or find out why she doesn't)

that surely makes it easier to handle?

I like your framing of these self-reflection questions, Jessani~
"what do I offer serious students and what do I offer in-and-out students?
are these interests mutually exclusive, and if not how do I create a learning environment that meets the diverse needs of my population?"

For this student, she's at a good level for the way she operates; her current level allows drop-ins and moves forward at a gentle pace, with much repetition. The next level is where I push it much more for those who are much MUCH more serious and committed; the class moves fast. Maybe she doesn't really know that there's such a big jump in commitment; it could be that it's not as obvious as I thought...I think I'll talk to her about where she is now and how she could make progress on X and Y to keep moving forward at her current level. Additionally, I'll clarify the commitment level that is expected at the next level.

thanks!