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Thread: Extremely difficult student - should I give her a refund and be done?




  1. #1
    Official BHUZzer nefabit's Avatar
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    Extremely difficult student - should I give her a refund and be done?

    Hello my fellow teachers!
    I need some advice. I have a family who is enrolled in my studio, two cousins and their daughters. Two Mondays ago, when the children's class is scheduled, I received some devastating news and had to cancel my classes that day. I picked myself up as best as I could and then had to perform that Wednesday, and as previously scheduled, had my other instructor substitute my classes for that day that included the adult class. Then this Monday was my 21st birthday. After the difficult news I received, this whole time I have been very stuck in a rut, and pretty much forgot about my birthday. So a few days before I called and explained how I'd forgotten, but I could really use some good cheer and spend time with friends.
    I received a very rude email back, saying among other things that if the cancellations were going to be so frequent they would find something else to do - after months of them being enrolled with no cancellations on my end. Then today, the other lady called me and said she had come down with the flu and that they (THEY) would not be able to attend class. This was also in an email that clearly stated that neither of them would be attending. So then the problem student calls about an hour before and says that she wanted to come, and was mad at me for not confirming with her. I guess I should have, it just sounded so clearly like they had spoken about it. I was also already in classes when the first lady called and I couldn't spend time making phone calls. So after I finished up that class I sent the upset lady a text message apologizing again, and she just went into this whole thing calling me unprofessional and unreliable, saying her husband (sure, blame the husband) didn't think it was worth the money, all kinds of things that really hurt. Keep in mind, I give full credit for missed classes, and I have good prices to begin with because I have low overhead at my studio. This woman has zero compassion for what I'm going through right now and I am trying SO hard to stay on top of everything, and I haven't had any problems with other students or classes. The whole situation is unlucky that due to so many different circumstances, several classes were canceled, and I can certainly understand her frustration - I'd be frustrated too! But I don't think it warrants the way she's treating me, especially considering how emotionally frazzled I am.
    I'm going to see how things turn out on Monday, but if she gives me any more problems I think I may just give her a refund and tell her good luck.
    What do you ladies think?


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    A journey of ten thousand miles begins with a single post. Zumarrad's Avatar
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    Re: Extremely difficult student - should I give her a refund and be done?

    *I* think you should take it to the teachers' group. Because these people might be able to read this. And the responses you get might be better to read in-group rather than out here.
    Last edited by Zumarrad; 03-29-2012 at 12:13 AM.
    kashmir, Kalirah and quamar like this.


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    Advanced BHUZzer CalgaryBibi's Avatar
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    Re: Extremely difficult student - should I give her a refund and be done?

    Oh, dear. Well, I'm really sorry to hear that you were dealing with something that knocked you for a loop. I sincerely wish you strength.

    Certainly, there's no call for students to be rude to you or call you names. If you wouldn't feel comfortable continuing to work with this student, then you may be better off giving her a refund, if you are willing and able to do so.

    However, I have never heard of a class being cancelled because it was the instructor's birthday. I, myself, have never missed work because it was my birthday, so I am having difficulty understanding this. Maybe your student is also having difficulty with this. I could maybe understand if it was a special event or trip, planned well in advance, but to cancel with less than a week's notice for a non-emergency situation is not something I would expect of my instructor, and I would likely feel annoyed, too. I'm sorry if this upsets you, but my sympathies are with your students in that regard.

    I do understand that you needed a break and needed to have a positive evening with friends, but could that not have been scheduled for an evening near your birthday, when you were not otherwise committed?

    I'm confused about the last circumstance. In what way did you prevent the "problem" student from attending after the other student cancelled? I don't see this as your responsibility, at all, unless you cancelled that class, too.


    Anyway, what's done is done, and what you have to decide is what is the most professional way to proceed now, in order to maintain your class's morale, your reputation, and your own comfort level. If you feel this student might be so disgruntled, she will affect the tone of the class, and if you feel you would be uncomfortable continuing to work with this student, then give the refund. Otherwise, maybe take a few minutes to speak with her in person at the next class, if possible, instead of communicating via text, email, etc. There is so much potential for misunderstanding and misreading tone with those types of communications.

    Good luck. I hope you get it straightened out.


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    Official BHUZzer nefabit's Avatar
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    Re: Extremely difficult student - should I give her a refund and be done?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zumarrad View Post
    *I* think you should take it to the teachers' group. Because these people might be able to read this. And the responses you get might be better to read in-group rather than out here.
    I'm confused. This is the Instructor Center . . . 8looks around*
    And the odds of that are pretty slim, or I wouldn't have posted it at all.


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    A journey of ten thousand miles begins with a single post. Zumarrad's Avatar
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    Re: Extremely difficult student - should I give her a refund and be done?

    Beafarhana runs a private teachers' group - contact her for info about joining! It's useful for when you want to ask about things that are sensitive. Just because it says "Instructor" on the forum doesn't mean people who are not instructors cannot read the threads.

    But since you're certain they won't read the responses: I think you appear to be entirely in the wrong here, and I appreciate that at just 21 you are really young yet, but it's not professional at all to dump your classes because you're feeling bad or because you wanted to have fun with your friends.

    I'm sorry that is harsh. Certainly people understand about cancelling for a bereavement or similar. But ongoing issues like this put people off coming to classes. Don't forget bellydance is a discretionary activity. But if you're the teacher you don't get to be discretionary about it, you have to show up ready to do your job. You also get customers who are blunt. I would not call a person who was annoyed with you and said so in no uncertain terms an "extremely difficult student". They are a dissatisfied customer and that is a very different thing.


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    Official BHUZzer nefabit's Avatar
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    Re: Extremely difficult student - should I give her a refund and be done?

    Quote Originally Posted by CalgaryBibi View Post
    However, I have never heard of a class being cancelled because it was the instructor's birthday. I, myself, have never missed work because it was my birthday, so I am having difficulty understanding this. Maybe your student is also having difficulty with this. I could maybe understand if it was a special event or trip, planned well in advance, but to cancel with less than a week's notice for a non-emergency situation is not something I would expect of my instructor, and I would likely feel annoyed, too. I'm sorry if this upsets you, but my sympathies are with your students in that regard.

    I do understand that you needed a break and needed to have a positive evening with friends, but could that not have been scheduled for an evening near your birthday, when you were not otherwise committed?

    I'm confused about the last circumstance. In what way did you prevent the "problem" student from attending after the other student cancelled? I don't see this as your responsibility, at all, unless you cancelled that class, too.
    Yes, I agree, I mean, I've never canceled a class because of a birthday either, or really anything else unless I was sick or out of town or something. I was hoping that they would understand me wanting to take time to find the shred of light in my lie right now (not so much having a birthday or even being 21, but having a night with friends on a special occasion). I couldn't really have rescheduled, I teach Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday and Dance Friday at a restaurant. And no, it doesn't bother me for you to say it. Although I have had other teachers, including ballet teachers cancel for similar reasons. Like I said, I understand her frustration and would be frustrated too. I just wouldn't have treated my teacher this way.

    Haha, I'm confused about the last part too! She thinks that when her cousin called me to cancel for them both specifically, that I should have called her to make sure she didn't want to come. Maybe I should have, I certainly wouldn't have dealt with the situation as she did though.


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    Official BHUZzer nefabit's Avatar
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    Re: Extremely difficult student - should I give her a refund and be done?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zumarrad View Post
    Beafarhana runs a private teachers' group - contact her for info about joining! It's useful for when you want to ask about things that are sensitive. Just because it says "Instructor" on the forum doesn't mean people who are not instructors cannot read the threads.

    But since you're certain they won't read the responses: I think you appear to be entirely in the wrong here, and I appreciate that at just 21 you are really young yet, but it's not professional at all to dump your classes because you're feeling bad or because you wanted to have fun with your friends.

    I'm sorry that is harsh. Certainly people understand about cancelling for a bereavement or similar. But ongoing issues like this put people off coming to classes. Don't forget bellydance is a discretionary activity. But if you're the teacher you don't get to be discretionary about it, you have to show up ready to do your job. You also get customers who are blunt. I would not call a person who was annoyed with you and said so in no uncertain terms an "extremely difficult student". They are a dissatisfied customer and that is a very different thing.
    Hm, I didn't know there was a private teachers group, thanks for that info!
    I certainly do not think that "Just because it says "Instructor" on the forum doesn't mean people who are not instructors cannot read the threads."
    I certainly did not dump my classes. I canceled days ahead of schedule and thoughrouly explained how I had all but forgotten about my birthday, and how hard the situation I am in right now is. And I taught every other class aside from the aforementioned ones both weeks as always. I think if you were in my situation, you might long for a day off as well! You also do not know the enormous amount of commitment and responsibility that I have successfully kept. I work full time as a teacher and performer - sometimes up to 60+ hours a week. And though I may be 21, I have been successfully running this business for three years, and co-running it with my mother for years before that. I teach about 15 hours a week at my own studio, perform an average of once or twice a week, and run all the aspects of any business on my own. So please don't patronize me. My workload is enormous and the people who do know my situation are telling me I should scale down. I don't want to do that. I'm depressed right now, but I'm not going to let that get in my way.


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    A journey of ten thousand miles begins with a single post. Zumarrad's Avatar
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    Re: Extremely difficult student - should I give her a refund and be done?

    Seven years, fulltime job, fulltime study, bout of depression, colds, headaches, relationship breakups... never missed a class I didn't have a sub for, and the only classes I had people sub for were ones where I was out of town.

    Sorry. But you did ask.

    And I am sorry you are having a bad time but this is the reality of business.


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    Official BHUZzer nefabit's Avatar
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    Re: Extremely difficult student - should I give her a refund and be done?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zumarrad View Post
    Seven years, fulltime job, fulltime study, bout of depression, colds, headaches, relationship breakups... never missed a class I didn't have a sub for, and the only classes I had people sub for were ones where I was out of town.

    Sorry. But you did ask.

    And I am sorry you are having a bad time but this is the reality of business.
    Just wanted to clarify that I'm not just a youngun teaching a class once a week with no other commitments :P Thank you for your advice :)


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    A journey of ten thousand miles begins with a single post. Zumarrad's Avatar
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    Re: Extremely difficult student - should I give her a refund and be done?

    ...
    Last edited by Zumarrad; 03-29-2012 at 04:45 AM. Reason: not worth it


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    Master BHUZzer wigglewhiz's Avatar
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    Re: Extremely difficult student - should I give her a refund and be done?

    Your students don't actually owe you anything. They don't need to understand that you're having a tough time. They're engaging you to provide a service, and they're paying you for it - that's a business relationship, not a personal one. As such, they have got the right to get pissy with you if they feel that you're not keeping up your side of that business deal/expectation.

    Perhaps you would be better scaling down your commitments to avoid damaging your professional reputation - you can always start up your classes again when your personal life has settled down and you're able to enjoy it rather than it causing you more stress. So yes, I'd say refund this student (and the others) and give yourself a break.


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    Official BHUZzer Aniseteph's Avatar
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    Re: Extremely difficult student - should I give her a refund and be done?

    Other commitments are irrelevant. When I pay for classes I am buying my teacher's commitment to those classes; what she does with the rest of her time is her business, not mine.

    If you are supposed to be running a class and you cancel, you let those students down. They don't care that you made every other class up to then, or all your other classes/performances that week. They are worried that THEIR class is on the line NOW, their class that they look forward to every week and arrange other things around. They don't need explanations of your extenuating circumstances, they need to know that you are going to provide the service you said you would. If you felt that you were at the end of your tether and had to either take that evening off or have a breakdown and miss 6 weeks, well, that is your choice, but explanations about the pressure you are under are counterproductive - they'd make me more concerned about the future, not less. And mentioning birthdays is a mistake IMO - it looks frivolous. There's no excuse for students being rude, but that would have pi$$ed me off in a way that "I'm sorry... unavoidable circs... blah blah ... apologies for disruption... appreciate how inconvenient it is... classes will continue as normal from next week..." would not.

    Quote Originally Posted by wigglewhiz
    Perhaps you would be better scaling down your commitments to avoid damaging your professional reputation - you can always start up your classes again when your personal life has settled down and you're able to enjoy it rather than it causing you more stress.
    ITA.


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    Master BHUZzer beafarhana's Avatar
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    Re: Extremely difficult student - should I give her a refund and be done?

    I appreciate you're going through a tough time, but much like the others I'm going to say: your students don't owe you any understanding, instead you owe them a regular professional service. And that means turning up & teaching whatever the situation. I've taught my classes despite illness, divorce, depression, relationship woes, close family bereavement, close family illness, moving house, losing my day job, whatever...

    When you're teaching, you take on all sorts of professional responsibilities. Not just about what you say & do in the classroom, but about how you do the job as a whole, how you deal with people, how you manage their expectations, how you encourage them to commit to your classes, how you lead them in the dance by your example. At the moment it doesn't sound like you really want to have those responsibilities, so maybe it's time to take a break from teaching, and focus purely on yourself for a little while.
    Last edited by beafarhana; 03-29-2012 at 06:18 AM. Reason: rogue apostrophe!!!!


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    Official BHUZzer nefabit's Avatar
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    Re: Extremely difficult student - should I give her a refund and be done?

    I think the only thing I'm going to add to this conversation is that as an example, my ballet teachers mother died a few weeks ago (rest in peace), and she canceled class. The next week we had class, then this week she is on vacation to Arizona, and next week is canceled as well.
    No one is complaining, because we understand she just went through a hard time and needs some time, and we receive credit for the class. While I did not have a death in the family, my scenario is very close, but I don't want to go into details.


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    Mega BHUZzer mahsati's Avatar
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    Re: Extremely difficult student - should I give her a refund and be done?

    How much notice did you give for the cancellations? Pre-planned things like vacations or travel and uncontrollable circumstances like unsafe weather, illness, or death in the family, are generally well-understood by most students. For myself, I occasionally have to cancel class for illness/weather which may be last minute decisions, but for vacations/travel or other non-emergency reasons, I give as much prior notice as possible. In example, I had to cancel quite a few classes during one winter because I was snowed in and unable to safely get to class. For those, I let all of the students know that I was checking the state of the roads every hour and would post updates to facebook to let them know about class. I also asked them to call me before heading out to class if they weren't able to check facebook. I hated having to cancel, but I didn't lose students because they understood the situation in advance and I kept them informed.

    I may be reading it wrong, but it sounds as though class was cancelled 3 weeks in a row without prior notice. My apologies if I am reading it wrong (and I'd appreciate clarification if so!). I think you can generally expect students to understand a single cancellation for the reasons listed above, but for multiple ones people prefer to have as much notice as possible and you may lose students if the cancellations are frequent, even for good reasons. The birthday cancellation is the one that I am having the most difficulty understanding. When I am teaching, I consider it my job to be there, so I use the same (or more strict) rules for my own attendance that I would for a regular job. Unless the celebration had been planned weeks in advance and explained to the students at that time, I wouldn't have cancelled for that reason.

    I hope you can work something out with the students, but, if you would prefer not to deal with them on this topic, I would suggest a partial or full refund depending on the circumstances.
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    Master BHUZzer danielabellydance's Avatar
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    Re: Extremely difficult student - should I give her a refund and be done?

    I agree with everyone else, and I'm sorry that these are probably not the answers you are looking for. I have never canceled a class (except at the studio's instruction when THEY preferred I cancel rather than find a sub for a pre-planned absence). Unless I'm incapacitated, I will be there (and even then, I'll probably still be there! I taught 9 months pregnant with sciatica so bad I couldn't walk, sitting on an exercise ball at the front of the room ). I also taught on my 30th birthday, but my parents and students did bring a cake to class for me.

    So, if you were my instructor, I would probably have been disappointed but understanding when you canceled the class for whatever emergency you had. But when you canceled the next class for your birthday, I would have been upset. I wouldn't have been mean to you because Im not that kind of person, but it would seriously make me reconsider signing up for another session with you.

    I think your ballet teacher's situation is different because (1) vacations are preplanned so it is likely everyone had notice way in advance. And being out of town is obviously a reason someone can't teach and (2) a parent dying is a completely legit excuse to miss anything. No one would expect you to show up immediately after loosing a parent.
    Last edited by danielabellydance; 03-31-2012 at 08:59 PM. Reason: because my typos were so bad my post didn't even make sense!


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    A journey of ten thousand miles begins with a single post. Lauren_'s Avatar
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    Re: Extremely difficult student - should I give her a refund and be done?

    I showed up after losing a parent. But that was the work ethic my mother taught me. She never missed a day of work in over 25 years with her company. And I honestly didn't know what else to do with myself -- it felt good to be doing something 'normal' and be distracted for a while.

    However, that's not the right answer for everyone and I totally get that everyone has to make their own choices about grieving.

    In any event, I've never taken off work to party, no matter how badly I felt I needed it. Classes rarely go beyond 9:00pm, there's still time for partying! And I would never take off for something unnecessary like that after missing two weeks in a row.

    Subs are better than not showing up, but rarely can they offer the same quality class as a regular instructor. I try to use subs and/or cancel classes less than 2-3 times per year, which is challenging because I love to travel and I teach a dozen or so classes per week.

    I know this isn't what you want to hear, and obviously none of us were in your shoes at the time -- who knows, we might've made the same decision.

    But if I had made that decision, and my student was pissed, I'd handle it by admitting I was wrong, apologizing, offering something nice like a 90 minute class to make up for it, and making sure I didn't miss a class again for months!


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    Advanced BHUZzer Reinaa's Avatar
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    Re: Extremely difficult student - should I give her a refund and be done?

    Hello, I tend not to cancel but when I had a bout of shingles and my daughter was ill I have taken off. However, the class has not been canceled since I do have a teacher who will sub for me. Maybe have a sub present for those days. Also, at the studio we teach if a class gets canceled the payment goes toward another class so no one loses out. I hope this helps. Good luck


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    Established BHUZzer rachelw's Avatar
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    Re: Extremely difficult student - should I give her a refund and be done?

    As a student, what would be most concerning to me would be the two weeks (or was it three?) of canceled classes. I can understand canceling for a personal crisis, depending on the crisis, and if that were a rare thing, I wouldn't doubt that it was something necessary. For me, canceling the following week because the teacher wanted to go out with her friends, with no arrangement for a substitute, would be bothersome. Yes, even if it was her 21st birthday. The bars would still be open after class ended. Taking two weeks off in a row can really hurt a student's progress and motivation.

    Remember, this reflects on you. Even if you've been doing this for a long time, people will perceive this as a lack of maturity and professionalism because of your age. What you mean or intend isn't really what matters. Your students' perception is what matters.

    If you need to scale back, that's understandable, and I hope you do that. But there are ways to go about it that are professional and will keep your students happy while preserving your reputation. Remember, students might have to rearrange work or childcare schedules to attend a different class. Give people a significant amount of notice that there will be changes to the schedule and you're likely to send a professional image, rather than a frazzled and disorganized one.

    It is far better to arrange to take time off for yourself in advance than it is to leave people hanging because you just don't feel up to it this week. It is not up to your students to accommodate your emotional state.

    As for what to do with this student, do you have a clear instructor cancellation policy?
    Last edited by rachelw; 03-29-2012 at 02:50 PM.


  20. #20
    Ultimate BHUZzer Tourbeau's Avatar
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    Re: Extremely difficult student - should I give her a refund and be done?

    Quote Originally Posted by nefabit View Post
    So a few days before I called and explained how I'd forgotten, but I could really use some good cheer and spend time with friends. I received a very rude email back...
    Perhaps the implication that spending an hour with them didn't qualify as "good cheer and spending time with friends" had something to do with the response?

    [...]she just went into this whole thing calling me unprofessional and unreliable, saying her husband (sure, blame the husband) didn't think it was worth the money, all kinds of things that really hurt.
    Would it change your perception of the incident if her regular preparation for class involved a running argument with her husband about how she's such a silly, old fool for wanting to take up belly dancing? If she's constantly defending your classes at home and she felt she couldn't even rely on you as an ally in the fight, that would explain how something that started out as your personal issue felt like her personal issue.


    FWIW, I knew a teacher who canceled classes for family birthdays, anniversaries, etc. If you're running your own business and you want to close to celebrate National Sauerkraut Week or whatever pet holiday your life revolves around, you can do that, but this information should be publicized in advance, not sprung on customers at the last minute, and to be brutally frank, if you do so, it may be at the risk of looking like an immature flake who doesn't understand how normal businesses work.

    There is a presumption of professionalism and standard practices when you engage customers. Most people understand legitimate emergencies and traumatic events, and they are willing to accommodate those. It's one thing to have a member of your immediate family die, or your house burn down, but would you hire a plumber who said, "Oh, gosh, it must be really inconvenient that you've got a new toilet, sink, and all that tile stacked in boxes in the middle of your living room for your bathroom remodel, but I'm too depressed to deal with your job now"?* Do you want a dentist who says, "I know you've had this appointment scheduled for six months, but one of my friends called last night and asked me to go golfing with him, so I'm not coming to work today"? You don't know how much your customers have rearranged their lives to come to your class. Maybe your class isn't that important to them and they're happy they don't have to DVR their favorite show this week, but maybe they look forward to class and have inconvenienced their families to accommodate their one hour a week of "me time." It disrespects them to keep changing the schedule for reasons that don't seem premeditated or serious. It makes your customers wonder if they can depend on you.

    [Continued...]


  21. #21
    Ultimate BHUZzer Tourbeau's Avatar
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    Re: Extremely difficult student - should I give her a refund and be done?

    Looking at the big picture, in terms of the GP's stereotypes of belly dancers, in the lead, we have "hot-to-trot, sultan-seducing exhibitionist," with "hippy-dippy, New Age dingbat," "deluded wannabe," and "secretly a terrorist sympathizer" bringing up the rear. You might notice that none of those images involves words like "legitimate creative career choice," "normal hobby," or "sensible, stable individuals." As utterly misinformed as these ideas may be, we are fighting a lot of prejudice that this is not a serious art and we're weirdoes playing at some exotic, costumed fantasy involving somebody else's culture. This is why it is critical to be relentless and rigorous in our professionalism every time. No, your customers don't have to care that you're having a rough week, and they don't have to build their schedules around your social life. Unless you are such a rare, spectacular, and significant teacher that you can make your own randomly evolving diva rules and students will put up with you anyway, they can always find another teacher, or just roll their eyes and walk away. You serve them, not the other way around.


    * Re: depression...Yes, it can be a genuine, debilitating condition and I'm not making light of it, but some people still want to believe depression is something one can "snap out of." Right or wrong, not everybody accepts being depressed as a valid reason for missing work. OTOH, individuals who have first- or secondhand experience with mental illness often know it when they see it in others, and they may not have much patience for indulging people who are aware on some level that they aren't functioning well but refuse to get help or make necessary lifestyle changes. They may resent people who have a couple of bad days in a row or a mild personality quirk and think it's trendy or funny to call that a crippling mental disorder. Your behavior may trigger uncomfortable associations with their own circumstances that you have neither the mind-reading skills to anticipate nor the power to control. I'm not implying where/if the OP is/isn't in this spectrum, just saying that these are some reasons why compassion may appear to run thin when anxiety and depression are wielded as excuses.


  22. #22
    A journey of ten thousand miles begins with a single post. Zumarrad's Avatar
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    Re: Extremely difficult student - should I give her a refund and be done?

    Most dance teachers I know arrange their classes around the school terms - since so many students are mothers, it makes sense - or, in the case of my teacher, there were two set hiatuses every year, one in the depths of winter when she was most likely to lose students to the flu or their kids' flus, so it wasn't worth running the weekly classes, and one over the Christmas/New Year period. She was upfront about needing downtime to recuperate, though she was still available for gigs and private lessons.

    Perhaps this kind of approach might lessen any tendencies to flake off?


  23. #23
    Master BHUZzer ozma's Avatar
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    Re: Extremely difficult student - should I give her a refund and be done?

    I think canceling because of your birthday sends a bad message and ten times so when you're American and it's your 21st birthday because of the cultural assumptions around the American 21st birthday as being a time to get waaaaay too drunk with friends because you can now legally drink.

    It sounds frivolous and like something that could be celebrated AFTER you've taught for the day, even if you don't go out drinking. I suspect that bringing your birthday into it called your previous, serious, need for a substitute into question in your student's minds and gave them a real reason to wonder if this would become a frequent thing. While they could have been much more polite in their mails...you could have been more professional in yours.


  24. #24
    Master BHUZzer dima's Avatar
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    Re: Extremely difficult student - should I give her a refund and be done?

    In my day job I work for customer service. For what I do, we get upset customers all the time. The problem is that not matter how much you explain "your side" to them, they just don't care because in their head they are thinking "I pay you to give me good service" and your reasons don't really matter to them. They expect xyz, no matter what. Excuses about your personal life only distance them, because your personal life doesn't matter to them. Harsh, I know. That's customer service for ya! But they don't know you, or your life, or whatever you have going on. In their heads they are thinking "Is she that kind of person who always has some drama in her life that she has to bail out on her commitments for?"

    I would suggest that you apologize to the student, address the issues she brought up to show you understand her concern, then go straight to how you will resolve it or move forward. Don't make excuses, no matter how legit they are. Don't mention anything about your personal life. For example "Hi, Student. I just wanted to apologize for the recent cancellations. I know that my students have certain expectations of me as their teacher and for some it is difficult to arrange their schedule in order to take my classes so it's important to me to be reliable for my students. For this reason..." I've updated my class cancellations policy/am giving a refund or credit (whatever you're doing to put your students back at ease.) Then leave the ball in the student's court. She can either choose to accept your resolution or not, and that's that.


  25. #25
    Mega BHUZzer kashmir's Avatar
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    Re: Extremely difficult student - should I give her a refund and be done?

    Quote Originally Posted by nefabit View Post
    You also do not know the enormous amount of commitment and responsibility that I have successfully kept. I work full time as a teacher and performer - sometimes up to 60+ hours a week. And though I may be 21, I have been successfully running this business for three years, and co-running it with my mother for years before that. I teach about 15 hours a week at my own studio, perform an average of once or twice a week, and run all the aspects of any business on my own. So please don't patronize me. My workload is enormous and the people who do know my situation are telling me I should scale down. I don't want to do that. I'm depressed right now, but I'm not going to let that get in my way.
    If you need to scale down - do it - but not with a few days notice. And not for your birthday!!! (One time when I'd suggest lying if you really, really want to do that).

    Way back when I had a 60 hour/week day job that wrung me out, spent the weekends turning a bare block of land into a farm (fencing, gorse slashing, velvet harvesting) and I also taught two classes a week, attended my own classes, troupe rehearsals and ocassionally gigged. When sitting 5-6 hours at a time finally caused problems with my back so I could hardly walk I continued to teach (although had to stop performing). Say I wanted to describe hip rocks I used a coat hanger. Eventually the boss found a substitute teacher. Deciding it was too hard or I wanted to stay home with a glass of wine was not something I even considered. (And yes, eventually I scaled back my commitments)


  26. #26
    Ultimate BHUZzer Tourbeau's Avatar
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    Re: Extremely difficult student - should I give her a refund and be done?

    One more thing about a birthday cancellation. I'd be a lot more inclined to let it slide if the rest of the story involved someone else planning a formal party for you than the informal "I really need to blow off some steam with my friends" approach. Then again, if your mother/romantic partner/best friend/housemates organized a big event for your birthday, it probably wouldn't be a last-minute thing at a time when you wouldn't normally be available.
    SamiraShuruk likes this.


  27. #27
    Mega BHUZzer Lara L's Avatar
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    Re: Extremely difficult student - should I give her a refund and be done?

    What dima said in particular really resounds with me. sometimes, as teachers and as artists, it is hard for us to draw the line between a professional relationship and a personal relationship, but this really is a business. I don't expect my students to have sympathy when they don't receive something they are expecting any more than I would expect my clients at my retail shop to understand if we are unexpectedly closed on a day they drove all the way into town to shop, or be compassionate if we are out of stock on something. We can give incentives to retain their business after a disappointment (refunds, extra make-up classes, rain check coupons, etc) but I don't think it's appropriate to give details in general. I had to miss a couple meetings last week and got behind on a couple orders (which means we have some late product right now) because my 2 year old crammed 3 inches of soft foam up her nose and it took 2 days for the doctors to get it all out. I am not going to tell every disappointed customer or miffed business contact the gory details looking for sympathy, I tell them I had a family medical emergency (which is true) and pick up & try to move on as professionally as I can. I know that doesn't compare to loosing a loved one and I do empathize with you needing a break, I just don't think sharing all your life details with clients is prudent unless you really have established a close personal relationship as well. I do have some students with whom I can share these kinds of things (indeed, they are the ones who kidnapped me for a concert the last time my life fell apart!) but that's not to be expected as part of the normal teacher/client interaction.

    When something goes awry when I am a client, this is what I look for:1) A simple apology, perhaps accompanied by a short explanation (the words "family emergency" in this case would suffice) 2) sincere assurance that this is not standard practice (you know you've been running this business for years without a break, but there's no reason for a client to know this) 3) some kind of assurance that you appreciate the inconvenience you have caused- this can be simply a reminder of your refund policy which it looks like you already have in place.

    After an unexpected interruption like 2 weeks without class on short notice, I think it is quite reasonable to send out an email to all students to let them know you are back on track and that all classes are back to a regular schedule, so I do understand the one woman's concern on that front as well. I wouldn't just take her relative's word that she isn't planning on being there either.
    MahiraRaqs, rachelw and Afrit09 like this.


  28. #28
    Mega BHUZzer Lara L's Avatar
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    Re: Extremely difficult student - should I give her a refund and be done?

    It sounds like one of the women in question has other problems with the class (not necessarily with you) and the circumstance merely brought them to a head right now. Here's the other thing with business, you really can't take everything personally. Maybe she really can blame her husband- I know what it's like to have a close loved one NOT support what you are doing. You don't know what *SHE* is going through right now. It is very easy to have an emotional response based on how she treated you, but that doesn't give you the right to judge her situation either. At this point, I don't think I'd do anything at all. You have apologized and restated your refund/make up policy and given assurance that you do not intend to cancel again. You have heard their concerns which you can take into account (or not) for future business choices. They have to decide if there has been enough breach of trust for them to walk away, but I, for one, wouldn't kick them out of class over it. Chin up and on with life, you can cry on the shoulder of your friends & loved ones, but business is business.

    ETA- I would probably phrase future interactions something like this: "I'm sorry the classes have not met your expectations, and I understand if you do not want to continue. These are my refund/make up class policies, please let me know if there is anything else I can do to help you be comfortable in class." (or, if in person, change that to "is there anything else I can do" since you are immediately available.)
    Last edited by Lara L; 03-30-2012 at 09:16 AM.


  29. #29
    Ultimate BHUZzer ssipes's Avatar
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    Re: Extremely difficult student - should I give her a refund and be done?

    I have to agree with everyone that canceling on your birthday was unprofessional. It just seems immature and a little self-centered. Most people don't take off work for their birthdays.
    Afrit09 likes this.
    Dancer/instructor/silk artist in southern Illinois sedoniaraqs@gmail.com
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  30. #30
    Just Starting! Arwen85's Avatar
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    Re: Extremely difficult student - should I give her a refund and be done?

    Quote Originally Posted by nefabit View Post
    Hello my fellow teachers!
    I need some advice.

    I'm going to see how things turn out on Monday, but if she gives me any more problems I think I may just give her a refund and tell her good luck.
    What do you ladies think?
    Hi dear, I'm sorry you're going through a hard time. I might say something unpopular now.

    As others already said, I never cancel classes for b day too unless I planned it months before so I can make sure to communicate that to the students.
    As about the day when you were feeling bad, I don't think it's us girls here's place to judge if you were wrong or not. I never canceled a class when I was feeling bad but then again I never had major health problems and I never broke up the same day I had class. So I don't know how I would feel if that would happen to me. We don't know about your problem but I think it can be understandable to think about canceling a class if something very bad is going on.
    My goddes dance teacher is pregnant and she had to cancel some classes at the last moment because of health reasons and nobody got upset because we are a group of people that's been dancing together for a while and love eachother and our teacher. Please note she's a professional known in all the country so not one of those random teachers.
    Same would happen with my students, I'm sure they would understand but there are some things that make the difference: the relationship you have with them and vice versa, your aim in teaching and theirs is leanring.

    When classes are based on pure learning, like it's just a service you're giving and that they are expecting from you, then yes, people tend to be harsh and expect what they were promised for. That kind of people don't really care about their teacher coming to class happy or not happy. I suggest you give her a refund and tell her good luck :)


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