Thread: Time for another terminology question!

OK - I know I'm going to seem like a complete idiot for asking this, but a couple of names for walks (i.e., walking movements) keep cropping up when I'm reading things (not necessarily just on Bhuz - also on Orientaldancer & tribe) and it's bugging me that I think I know what they are, but am not 100% sure.

So - bear with me whilst I seek clarification, o enlightened Bhuzzers (and if not that, at least a hearty debate )

The terms I have come across are: 'Baladi' walk, 'Oriental' walk.

So, c'mon - what are they?

I've never heard either term.

Me neither. But then again, Lauren, you and I are only about an hour and a half away from each other (and it might be a regional thing). ..g.:

Well I dunno what everybody else means when they use those terms, but in my own personal lexicon of the dance, Baladi walk & Sharqi walk are descriptive of the attitude of the walk, not so much of the technique of the walk.

For me:

Sharqi Walk (which you could call Oriental, if you were so minded)
Is a stylised walk, quite balletic, where the key-words are Extension & Line. It's about making yourself taller, more visible. I tell my students, this is the walk to claim your stage, it's the walk to show the audience they won't be messing with you, it's the walk to show that guy standing at the back of the room at the bar (who's a really good tipper), that you're worth watching.

Baladi Walk
Is the more intimate version of the walk, softer, more curvy and bouncy (though you have to be careful to stay upright, if you lean forward you risk looking like a reggae dancer). Instead of thinking about dancing on a big stage, you imagine you're dancing in the café, on the same level as your audience, where they are much closer to you.

Looking forward to seeing what other responses you get!

Bea - thanks for this. Very close to my own understanding - although in terms of technique, I always assumed the 'oriental' walk was close to what I was taught as the 'scissor walk' and the 'baladi' walk was a bouncy-ish walk (can't find a better way to describe this without *doing* it!). Perhaps I'm not so far off the mark as I thought...

Originally Posted by deelybopper

Bea - thanks for this. Very close to my own understanding - although in terms of technique, I always assumed the 'oriental' walk was close to what I was taught as the 'scissor walk' and the 'baladi' walk was a bouncy-ish walk

Do you mean "oriental" as a cross over step? I've never heard these terms either but can picture a difference.

*my* cross step move i call scissor step. cross right over left, left over right. really extend through it. pointy toes.

i do something *i* call pretty walk (a name called it that & it's stuck in my brain)which is a balletic strut.

*i* do something called oriental cha cha with is a forward & back step, side to side with a shimmy.

i know no help =:0 tina

BTW --- Is there a jazz/ballet/whatever term for this footwork (sometimes called a scissor walk, although I learned that as something different):

Step forward on right foot
Step in place with left foot
Step backward on right foot
Step in place with left foot

Originally Posted by aziyade

BTW --- Is there a jazz/ballet/whatever term for this footwork (sometimes called a scissor walk, although I learned that as something different):

Step forward on right foot
Step in place with left foot
Step backward on right foot
Step in place with left foot

Stemming from my first teacher, I've always called that an Arabic basic--I think that might be a Reda term?...

Originally Posted by aziyade

BTW --- Is there a jazz/ballet/whatever term for this footwork (sometimes called a scissor walk, although I learned that as something different):

Step forward on right foot
Step in place with left foot
Step backward on right foot
Step in place with left foot

Aziyade, do you pretty much stay in one place while doing this?

If so, I call that a box step.

Originally Posted by badriya_al_ahmar

Stemming from my first teacher, I've always called that an Arabic basic--I think that might be a Reda term?...

I think that's Salimpour terminology, not Reda. I don't recall Mahmoud Reda using this term, nor any other Reda troupe teachers.

ETA - thinking about it a bit, the Egyptians I've taken workshops with all called this a Pas de Bourrée.

Originally Posted by aziyade

BTW --- Is there a jazz/ballet/whatever term for this footwork (sometimes called a scissor walk, although I learned that as something different):

Step forward on right foot
Step in place with left foot
Step backward on right foot
Step in place with left foot

I call that an FMBM (Front Middle Back Middle) step, following Artemis Mourat's terminology. Clear, if not as concise as some of the other suggestions. One of my friends calls it a karsilama step.

i always thought karsilama had a hop in it? tina

Basic arabic in my world is also fmbm..however the box step (going nowhere) travels in place with a Rcross over front/ Lback Rback/ together. When fmbm begins to travel to the side my teachers called it a Fellahin (sp?)


When you guys have time (threadjack) could you give some more input to the freeze shimmy huh? post. It kinda went dead and the replies are scarse. Maybe its the way I replied to the posts, or the question is just plain dumb...I dunno....

Originally Posted by aziyade

BTW --- Is there a jazz/ballet/whatever term for this footwork (sometimes called a scissor walk, although I learned that as something different):

Step forward on right foot
Step in place with left foot
Step backward on right foot
Step in place with left foot

I was initially taught that FMBM, then as Arabic 4. Previously had only been taught 3 Arabic; with Arabic 1 being front foot flat, back foot toe, leading with the same foot each time; Arabic 2 being front foot flat, back foot toe, front foot toe, back foot toe; and Arabic 3 being front foot flat, back foot toe, front foot toe with a little weighted swoop on the front hip, back foot toe. I was also taught an Arabic 5 last year, but I'd have to pull out the notes for that one as I haven't been using it. (Should, though...it was pretty good)

The cross over step I was taught as the Diva Walk.

Originally Posted by tattood1

i always thought karsilama had a hop in it? tina

Karsilama is a Turkish/Greek dance, meaning "face to face" done to a 9/8 meter, broken down: 12 12 12 123

Many people dance hopping to it, but try a slower one, sultry, even with a veil if you wish to combine things.

Karsilamas [Greece] dance history & background

Karsilamas [Greece] dance history & background

The term Karsilamas means face to face. Greek scholars tell us that the Karsilamas stems from an ancient Greek war dance. The war-dances frequently began with a march or procession to the field of battle. Then the men would pair off in mock battle. Maybe so. There are men's couple dances in Cypress and on Greek islands off the coast of Turkey which are highly developed and reminiscent of war-like sparring.

But elsewhere, Karsilamas is a couple dance that is still danced in every corner of the once great Ottoman empire, from Persia to Serbia. In every Macedonian and Thracian village, in all the villages on the Greek mainland, in Greek Tavernas all over the world, dancers pair off against each other but not in mock combat.

Today it is a raucous, bordering on the erotic, couple dance between men and women where the dancers face one another. Hands are held in the upright position about eye level, fingers snapped to the beat of the music, hips swaying.

When the dancers face each other, if one moves to the right the other does likewise; if one goes out, the other goes out; if one comes in, the other comes in. The same is done with circling movements, turns, etc. One is always counterbalancing the other. The predominant time signature for the dance is 9/8 or counted Quick, Quick, Quick, Slow.

Originally Posted by aziyade

BTW --- Is there a jazz/ballet/whatever term for this footwork (sometimes called a scissor walk, although I learned that as something different):

Step forward on right foot
Step in place with left foot
Step backward on right foot
Step in place with left foot

Jamila Salimpour called it an Arabic 4.

Some people call it a karsilama basic when done to 9/8 music, because there is an actual Turkish folk dance that uses this footwork to 9/8 music. The folk dance is a line dance that involves kind of a hop on the 7-8-9 so that you land on the 1.

Yes, I think Arabic Basic is an American terms, I've not heard an egyptian use it.

when i first started there was a whole bunch o moves called arabic 3, 4 etc that i assumed came from the salimpour format. my brain is actually getting fuzzy on anything i learned waay back then so just making an observation. tina

Originally Posted by deelybopper

OK - I know I'm going to seem like a complete idiot for asking this, but a couple of names for walks (i.e., walking movements) keep cropping up when I'm reading things (not necessarily just on Bhuz - also on Orientaldancer & tribe) and it's bugging me that I think I know what they are, but am not 100% sure.

So - bear with me whilst I seek clarification, o enlightened Bhuzzers (and if not that, at least a hearty debate )

The terms I have come across are: 'Baladi' walk, 'Oriental' walk.

So, c'mon - what are they?

You're not referring to just the basic "step, hip"? "Basic Egyptian"?
(step on the right, up with the left hip, step on the left, up with the right hip?)
Probably not, that would be too easy, but I've never heard of "Oriental walk" either.....

Sorry, busy couple of days, couldn't check bhuz any earlier!

Can't remember who asked this now, but the 'scissor walk' doesn't have any crossing of one foot over another (unless you want it to...), but 'scissor' refers to the upper body moving slightly in opposition to the lower (brain freezes whilst I try to work out how to describe this properly...)

Weight on right foot, step out forwards with left foot (toe hitting floor first, rather than heel), upper body will naturally swing slightly in opposition, right shoulder coming slowly forward. Move weight into front foot and repeat.

Make sense?..c::

The FMBM step I've always heard taught/described as forward-and-back (can also be done with the 'M' step with foot on floor). I'm guessing that's a British thing?

Arabic 4 in Jamila's terminology actually has a hip tension (or lift) on each step, but it's that same footwork.

I've been calling it front-middle-back-middle too, FMBM, but was hoping for a better term. Hadia called it a box step, but for me, a box step will always be what a lot of people call a jazz square (cause I'm weird).

FMBM works and is good enough for me. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Bellydancingcaroline

Yes, I think Arabic Basic is an American terms, I've not heard an egyptian use it.

I've only heard it from a German dancer ..g.: