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  1. #1
    Advanced BHUZzer deelybopper's Avatar
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    Time for another terminology question!

    OK - I know I'm going to seem like a complete idiot for asking this, but a couple of names for walks (i.e., walking movements) keep cropping up when I'm reading things (not necessarily just on Bhuz - also on Orientaldancer & tribe) and it's bugging me that I think I know what they are, but am not 100% sure.

    So - bear with me whilst I seek clarification, o enlightened Bhuzzers (and if not that, at least a hearty debate )

    The terms I have come across are: 'Baladi' walk, 'Oriental' walk.

    So, c'mon - what are they?


  2. #2
    A journey of ten thousand miles begins with a single post. Lauren_'s Avatar
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    Re: Time for another terminology question!

    I've never heard either term.


  3. #3
    Established BHUZzer TediThomas's Avatar
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    Re: Time for another terminology question!

    Me neither. But then again, Lauren, you and I are only about an hour and a half away from each other (and it might be a regional thing). ..g.:


  4. #4
    Master BHUZzer beafarhana's Avatar
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    Re: Time for another terminology question!

    Well I dunno what everybody else means when they use those terms, but in my own personal lexicon of the dance, Baladi walk & Sharqi walk are descriptive of the attitude of the walk, not so much of the technique of the walk.

    For me:

    Sharqi Walk (which you could call Oriental, if you were so minded)
    Is a stylised walk, quite balletic, where the key-words are Extension & Line. It's about making yourself taller, more visible. I tell my students, this is the walk to claim your stage, it's the walk to show the audience they won't be messing with you, it's the walk to show that guy standing at the back of the room at the bar (who's a really good tipper), that you're worth watching.

    Baladi Walk
    Is the more intimate version of the walk, softer, more curvy and bouncy (though you have to be careful to stay upright, if you lean forward you risk looking like a reggae dancer). Instead of thinking about dancing on a big stage, you imagine you're dancing in the café, on the same level as your audience, where they are much closer to you.

    Looking forward to seeing what other responses you get!


  5. #5
    Advanced BHUZzer deelybopper's Avatar
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    Re: Time for another terminology question!

    Bea - thanks for this. Very close to my own understanding - although in terms of technique, I always assumed the 'oriental' walk was close to what I was taught as the 'scissor walk' and the 'baladi' walk was a bouncy-ish walk (can't find a better way to describe this without doing it!). Perhaps I'm not so far off the mark as I thought...


  6. #6
    Official BHUZzer jaziri's Avatar
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    Re: Time for another terminology question!

    Quote Originally Posted by deelybopper View Post
    Bea - thanks for this. Very close to my own understanding - although in terms of technique, I always assumed the 'oriental' walk was close to what I was taught as the 'scissor walk' and the 'baladi' walk was a bouncy-ish walk
    Do you mean "oriental" as a cross over step? I've never heard these terms either but can picture a difference.


  7. #7
    Master BHUZzer tattood1's Avatar
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    Re: Time for another terminology question!

    my cross step move i call scissor step. cross right over left, left over right. really extend through it. pointy toes.

    i do something i call pretty walk (a name called it that & it's stuck in my brain)which is a balletic strut.

    i do something called oriental cha cha with is a forward & back step, side to side with a shimmy.

    i know no help =:0 tina


  8. #8
    Master BHUZzer aziyade's Avatar
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    Re: Time for another terminology question!

    BTW --- Is there a jazz/ballet/whatever term for this footwork (sometimes called a scissor walk, although I learned that as something different):

    Step forward on right foot
    Step in place with left foot
    Step backward on right foot
    Step in place with left foot


  9. #9
    Advanced BHUZzer badriya_al_ahmar's Avatar
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    Re: Time for another terminology question!

    Quote Originally Posted by aziyade View Post
    BTW --- Is there a jazz/ballet/whatever term for this footwork (sometimes called a scissor walk, although I learned that as something different):

    Step forward on right foot
    Step in place with left foot
    Step backward on right foot
    Step in place with left foot
    Stemming from my first teacher, I've always called that an Arabic basic--I think that might be a Reda term?...


  10. #10
    Master BHUZzer Monica's Avatar
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    Re: Time for another terminology question!

    Quote Originally Posted by aziyade View Post
    BTW --- Is there a jazz/ballet/whatever term for this footwork (sometimes called a scissor walk, although I learned that as something different):

    Step forward on right foot
    Step in place with left foot
    Step backward on right foot
    Step in place with left foot
    Aziyade, do you pretty much stay in one place while doing this?

    If so, I call that a box step.


  11. #11
    Master BHUZzer beafarhana's Avatar
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    Re: Time for another terminology question!

    Quote Originally Posted by badriya_al_ahmar View Post
    Stemming from my first teacher, I've always called that an Arabic basic--I think that might be a Reda term?...
    I think that's Salimpour terminology, not Reda. I don't recall Mahmoud Reda using this term, nor any other Reda troupe teachers.

    ETA - thinking about it a bit, the Egyptians I've taken workshops with all called this a Pas de Bourrée.
    Last edited by beafarhana; 12-15-2007 at 05:18 AM.


  12. #12
    Advanced BHUZzer Ainsley's Avatar
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    Re: Time for another terminology question!

    Quote Originally Posted by aziyade View Post
    BTW --- Is there a jazz/ballet/whatever term for this footwork (sometimes called a scissor walk, although I learned that as something different):

    Step forward on right foot
    Step in place with left foot
    Step backward on right foot
    Step in place with left foot
    I call that an FMBM (Front Middle Back Middle) step, following Artemis Mourat's terminology. Clear, if not as concise as some of the other suggestions. One of my friends calls it a karsilama step.


  13. #13
    Master BHUZzer tattood1's Avatar
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    Re: Time for another terminology question!

    i always thought karsilama had a hop in it? tina


  14. #14
    A journey of ten thousand miles begins with a single post. anala's Avatar
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    Re: Time for another terminology question!

    Basic arabic in my world is also fmbm..however the box step (going nowhere) travels in place with a Rcross over front/ Lback Rback/ together. When fmbm begins to travel to the side my teachers called it a Fellahin (sp?)


    When you guys have time (threadjack) could you give some more input to the freeze shimmy huh? post. It kinda went dead and the replies are scarse. Maybe its the way I replied to the posts, or the question is just plain dumb...I dunno....


  15. #15
    Official BHUZzer ThespiSis's Avatar
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    Re: Time for another terminology question!

    Quote Originally Posted by aziyade View Post
    BTW --- Is there a jazz/ballet/whatever term for this footwork (sometimes called a scissor walk, although I learned that as something different):

    Step forward on right foot
    Step in place with left foot
    Step backward on right foot
    Step in place with left foot
    I was initially taught that FMBM, then as Arabic 4. Previously had only been taught 3 Arabic; with Arabic 1 being front foot flat, back foot toe, leading with the same foot each time; Arabic 2 being front foot flat, back foot toe, front foot toe, back foot toe; and Arabic 3 being front foot flat, back foot toe, front foot toe with a little weighted swoop on the front hip, back foot toe. I was also taught an Arabic 5 last year, but I'd have to pull out the notes for that one as I haven't been using it. (Should, though...it was pretty good)

    The cross over step I was taught as the Diva Walk.


  16. #16
    Official BHUZzer jaziri's Avatar
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    Re: Time for another terminology question!

    Quote Originally Posted by tattood1 View Post
    i always thought karsilama had a hop in it? tina
    Karsilama is a Turkish/Greek dance, meaning "face to face" done to a 9/8 meter, broken down: 12 12 12 123

    Many people dance hopping to it, but try a slower one, sultry, even with a veil if you wish to combine things.

    Karsilamas [Greece] dance history & background

    Karsilamas [Greece] dance history & background

    The term Karsilamas means face to face. Greek scholars tell us that the Karsilamas stems from an ancient Greek war dance. The war-dances frequently began with a march or procession to the field of battle. Then the men would pair off in mock battle. Maybe so. There are men's couple dances in Cypress and on Greek islands off the coast of Turkey which are highly developed and reminiscent of war-like sparring.

    But elsewhere, Karsilamas is a couple dance that is still danced in every corner of the once great Ottoman empire, from Persia to Serbia. In every Macedonian and Thracian village, in all the villages on the Greek mainland, in Greek Tavernas all over the world, dancers pair off against each other but not in mock combat.

    Today it is a raucous, bordering on the erotic, couple dance between men and women where the dancers face one another. Hands are held in the upright position about eye level, fingers snapped to the beat of the music, hips swaying.

    When the dancers face each other, if one moves to the right the other does likewise; if one goes out, the other goes out; if one comes in, the other comes in. The same is done with circling movements, turns, etc. One is always counterbalancing the other. The predominant time signature for the dance is 9/8 or counted Quick, Quick, Quick, Slow.


  17. #17
    Ultimate BHUZzer *Shira*'s Avatar
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    Re: Time for another terminology question!

    Quote Originally Posted by aziyade View Post
    BTW --- Is there a jazz/ballet/whatever term for this footwork (sometimes called a scissor walk, although I learned that as something different):

    Step forward on right foot
    Step in place with left foot
    Step backward on right foot
    Step in place with left foot
    Jamila Salimpour called it an Arabic 4.

    Some people call it a karsilama basic when done to 9/8 music, because there is an actual Turkish folk dance that uses this footwork to 9/8 music. The folk dance is a line dance that involves kind of a hop on the 7-8-9 so that you land on the 1.


  18. #18
    Mega BHUZzer Bellydancingcaroline's Avatar
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    Re: Time for another terminology question!

    Yes, I think Arabic Basic is an American terms, I've not heard an egyptian use it.


  19. #19
    Master BHUZzer tattood1's Avatar
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    Re: Time for another terminology question!

    when i first started there was a whole bunch o moves called arabic 3, 4 etc that i assumed came from the salimpour format. my brain is actually getting fuzzy on anything i learned waay back then so just making an observation. tina


  20. #20
    Ultimate BHUZzer naiyahayal's Avatar
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    Re: Time for another terminology question!

    Quote Originally Posted by deelybopper View Post
    OK - I know I'm going to seem like a complete idiot for asking this, but a couple of names for walks (i.e., walking movements) keep cropping up when I'm reading things (not necessarily just on Bhuz - also on Orientaldancer & tribe) and it's bugging me that I think I know what they are, but am not 100% sure.

    So - bear with me whilst I seek clarification, o enlightened Bhuzzers (and if not that, at least a hearty debate )

    The terms I have come across are: 'Baladi' walk, 'Oriental' walk.

    So, c'mon - what are they?

    You're not referring to just the basic "step, hip"? "Basic Egyptian"?
    (step on the right, up with the left hip, step on the left, up with the right hip?)
    Probably not, that would be too easy, but I've never heard of "Oriental walk" either.....


  21. #21
    Advanced BHUZzer deelybopper's Avatar
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    Re: Time for another terminology question!

    Sorry, busy couple of days, couldn't check bhuz any earlier!

    Can't remember who asked this now, but the 'scissor walk' doesn't have any crossing of one foot over another (unless you want it to...), but 'scissor' refers to the upper body moving slightly in opposition to the lower (brain freezes whilst I try to work out how to describe this properly...)

    Weight on right foot, step out forwards with left foot (toe hitting floor first, rather than heel), upper body will naturally swing slightly in opposition, right shoulder coming slowly forward. Move weight into front foot and repeat.

    Make sense?..c::

    The FMBM step I've always heard taught/described as forward-and-back (can also be done with the 'M' step with foot on floor). I'm guessing that's a British thing?


  22. #22
    Master BHUZzer aziyade's Avatar
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    Re: Time for another terminology question!

    Arabic 4 in Jamila's terminology actually has a hip tension (or lift) on each step, but it's that same footwork.

    I've been calling it front-middle-back-middle too, FMBM, but was hoping for a better term. Hadia called it a box step, but for me, a box step will always be what a lot of people call a jazz square (cause I'm weird).

    FMBM works and is good enough for me. Thanks!


  23. #23
    Advanced BHUZzer badriya_al_ahmar's Avatar
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    Re: Time for another terminology question!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bellydancingcaroline View Post
    Yes, I think Arabic Basic is an American terms, I've not heard an egyptian use it.
    I've only heard it from a German dancer ..g.:


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