Thread: Students experiencing financial difficulties.

I need your advice ladies and gents:

From time to time I have a student going through a tough financial time. They come to me and ask if there is anything that can be done to help them attend class because it is the one thing that keeps them sane. It appeals to my social nature to try and help the students through this but I also need to pay my rent and so I often structure a payment plan that they can handle. Same tuition but just broken up.

Recently a student who is in my student troupe came to me in the same situation and I felt awful for her. I alluded to the payment arrangement. I seriously considered discounting the tuition or offering her a work-study type situation (lord knows I could use the help). However, in the week or so after talking with her I see that she is taking class with other instructors and workshops and planning on going to some summer concerts. Well- I don't really know how to take this. Am I to offer a discount so that she can pay another instructor full price????

Originally Posted by pghbelly1

IRecently a student who is in my student troupe came to me in the same situation and I felt awful for her. I alluded to the payment arrangement. I seriously considered discounting the tuition or offering her a work-study type situation (lord knows I could use the help). However, in the week or so after talking with her I see that she is taking class with other instructors and workshops and planning on going to some summer concerts. Well- I don't really know how to take this. Am I to offer a discount so that she can pay another instructor full price????

If the barter work-study arrangement would offer you meaningful help that would be very valuable to you, then it's probably worth doing anyway. Or, at least it's worth doing if she possesses the skills you need and has demonstrated from her troupe behavior that she's a reliable person who does what she says she is going to do.

However, if the money would be more valuable to you than what you'd get from a barter, then I agree with you, let someone else be the one to give her the discount.



Before you assume everyone else is getting full price, there's always the chance that the others are also giving her discounts or barters. It's hard to know unless you have the kind of relationship with her other teachers that would enable you to get honest answers from them.

In the FWIW dept - probably doesn't apply to your particular situation:

One of my dance sisters, who had been with one of my teachers the VERY longest of all said teacher's students, in both troupes, etc, etc. ran into financial difficulty last year - job loss, etc, etc.

I contacted all other dance sisters and we agreed to cover 50% of her costs, and the instructor accepted that as payment in full. None of us wanted to see this gal forced into leaving. Win-win.

It's hard to know what she has going on with the other studios. For all we know it could be a situation like what Zorba has described, with people clubbing together to treat her to the workshops.

But in terms of barter, if you want to keep her coming to classes, you don't have to limit things to work/study or discounted rates. My teacher used to barter services and even goods for classes with students who didn't have a lot of money (or conversely had skills/items that met her needs). It comes with its own set of issues but it can be worth it - cleaning, beauty therapy, design work etc. One lady paid in fresh fish for a while (she was a fisherman's wife).

I agree with what everyone has said so far. I used to work in exchange for my modern dance classes. I worked really hard for them and it was definitely worth it to me, if not for that there was no way I could have gone. It's a great thing only if they can do or give what you need . I've also seen a situation where a student got free classes but it ended up something like she felt obligated to be there and seemed to have lost her love and interest in the class . good luck.

Three questions to ask yourself.

1. Does your gut say she's a little dishonest?
2. Do you want to frequently be in the position where students constantly ask for discounts and favors?
3. Are you about to undercut yourself?

Originally Posted by pghbelly1

I need your advice ladies and gents:

From time to time I have a student going through a tough financial time. They come to me and ask if there is anything that can be done to help them attend class because it is the one thing that keeps them sane. It appeals to my social nature to try and help the students through this but I also need to pay my rent and so I often structure a payment plan that they can handle. Same tuition but just broken up.

Recently a student who is in my student troupe came to me in the same situation and I felt awful for her. I alluded to the payment arrangement. I seriously considered discounting the tuition or offering her a work-study type situation (lord knows I could use the help). However, in the week or so after talking with her I see that she is taking class with other instructors and workshops and planning on going to some summer concerts. Well- I don't really know how to take this. Am I to offer a discount so that she can pay another instructor full price????

It is entirely possible that this person has somehow "banked" tuition or has received tuition as a gift. Perhaps she paid for the workshops some time ago? This is definitely possible with the summer concerts, also.

Go ahead and offer her a limited-run work-study arrangement for either no-pay or discounted classes if that would help you. You can always extend it for another X weeks if it works out...or just stop offering it if it stops working well (If you extend it by the run of the classes every time, you can easily change the arrangement without as much drama as you might get if it's ongoing).

I wouldn't discount the classes just for nothing; there's too much possibility for bad feelings and resentment (on your part, on the part of other students...etc). Heck, apparently Jehan has her students clean her house for her...THAT would totally be worth one class a week for me, personally.

Thanks ladies.

She's a great person and troupe member. The first one to offer help and one who practices all the time. I think very highly of her and so it hurt my feelings to think that she was (maybe) not telling me the whole story or trying to get a discount just for the sake of being able to engage in other activities at full price.

I am friends with the other instructors that she is taking lessons/ workshops with so I think that I will ask- just to satisfy my own curiosity. I encourage my girls to study an array of styles- just not when it's affecting my bottom line. I also do not want to encourage the rest of the students to start asking me for discounts because that will become a slippery slope.

I may offer her a partial work-study to update websites, keep the troupe schedule straight and make flyers/ facebook promo pages, etc. I don't think that it will be enough work to cover the cost of the entire session but it may help and be beneficial to me at the same time.

xoxoxo,
Jennifer

I have a couple of thoughts...I feel that if I were to offer a deal to a student, for whatever reason, I would not worry about what else s/he was doing with her time or money. And honestly...I guess if I didn't get something out of it myself, I probably wouldn't do it. I run a business, not a charity...that sounds really harsh, but when I have made choices as a teacher to barter with folks for classes or to have them do a work trade for classes, it always felt mutually beneficial. If they have other deals going for other classes, cool. Not my business or concern--our deal works for both of us until it doesn't, you know? Keep it respectful and business like, or make it explicitly short term if that feels better.

Not sure if this will work for your class structure, but one option you might consider for a regular student who is having hard times is offering them the class card price on a drop-in basis. In other words, say drop-in is $20, but if you buy a 10-class card it comes to $15 per class. Assuming the student attends consistently, you could let her pay a drop-in for $15. She gets the benefit of class card pricing without having to come up with a bunch of money upfront or at one time.

This is NOT my personal opinion, but I thought I'd share:

A marketing teacher of mine (Elizabeth Purvis) thinks bartering is always a bad idea. (She's fine with payment plans, and with carefully chosen pro-bono charity work, but not bartering or discounting.)

Her take on it is that when you step in to fix their problems, you are taking away an opportunity for them to be resourceful. You support them in seeing themselves as a victim of circumstances, instead of a capable, resourceful person who can find other options for finding the money (whether it's finding ways to cut back elsewhere, or ways to make extra money).

She thinks that, even though our hearts are in the right place, that is a disservice to them, even if they're the one asking for it.


I don't agree that bartering is always bad for them, but I think those are important concerns to consider before entering into an arrangement.


(I happen to be the worker in a bartering arrangement, and it is working very well. We had a lot of trust and good communication before we started trading, we set an "exchange rate" based on the market value of what we're each getting, and we're trading things that we'd still spend money on if we weren't bartering. And we also check in every few months to make sure we're both still happy with it.)

I've got to say that if I see a person in financial difficulties who is creatively trading their labour or skills for services and keeping their limited cash for things that can *only* be purchased with cash, the words "not resourceful" and "victim" do not spring to MY mind.

Perhaps this teacher does not understand that in certain circumstances actual cash money cannot be magicked or The Secreted out of thin air.

I do agree however that barter needs to be a mutually satisfactory arrangement.

Originally Posted by jmdruadh

Her take on it is that when you step in to fix their problems, you are taking away an opportunity for them to be resourceful. You support them in seeing themselves as a victim of circumstances, instead of a capable, resourceful person who can find other options for finding the money (whether it's finding ways to cut back elsewhere, or ways to make extra money).

I totally disagree with this. Bartering is surely an excellent example of resourcefulness, finding a way to pay for something using your skills even when you are having difficulty earning money through regular means?

I also find this view morally reprehensible (I know it's not your own opinion, jmdruadh). Many people, especially at the moment, are either working very hard for very low pay, or are unable to find work at all due to the state of the world economy (and the fact that some governments like to keep a certain section of the population deliberately unemployed in order to drive down wages for the rest...). The idea that people who are on low wages or unemployed are somehow to blame, and would no longer be poor if only they were somehow better and more 'entrepreneurial' people, is incredibly callous in these circumstances, and takes no account of economic reality. It is quite possible to be genuinely a victim of circumstances whilst still being resourceful and capable - what is the alternative? To assume that all people in financial difficulty are lazy and feckless, poor due to their own moral failings, and not deserving of help or compassion?

I imagine a truly motivated and entrepreneurial student would just stop feeding their kids anything but a bowl of cereal each day so that she had the spare cash for bellydance classes. And if the kids complained she could send them out to forage for their own food, so they too could learn the value of thinking outside the cereal box.

No. If she is able to do other things, then she does not require any financial assistance. Maybe if she were to pay you, she would not be able to attend the other things, but where are her priorities? if you give her a discount, you are helping her pay for the other things she does. If she really wants to dance with you, she will make some sacrifices.

On the other hand, if you need help, and you think she would do a good job, then it could be a good deal for you, regardless of her situation.

Bartering, at the end of the day as I've experienced it, is an extraordinarily wonderful way of being resourceful. It's not about receiving a handout for nothing but finding a way to meet both people's needs or wants. Win-win situation.

It really depends on the people involved and motivations, but bartering isn't just a thing for only those strapped down and hard on their luck, though it is indeed an option. I would love to barter some skills of mine right now for someone to do photography for me. It would be a bit of a stretch financially for me to afford a good set but not impossible. For whatever reasons, friends and I have bartered various things even if we could've paid the other person.

Originally Posted by Zumarrad

I imagine a truly motivated and entrepreneurial student would just stop feeding their kids anything but a bowl of cereal each day so that she had the spare cash for bellydance classes.

My experience being the kid in that scenario is precisely why I don't agree with her conclusion. :)

(Although I think she'd consider offering a scholarship or workstudy program for people in serious need "pro bono" and therefore acceptable when carefully chosen.

I don't think her point was "everyone can pull themselves up by their bootstraps and synthesize money". I think it was more "most people have more resources than they think, and becoming aware of that is empowering".)


But when someone asks you to barter, they are asking you for a favor.

Even if you really want what they're offering you, and even if they are the best person to provide it, it complicates your bookkeeping (in the US, the tax reporting rules for bartering are really complex), and it commits you to buying their service, when paying them directly wouldn't.

And favors can create boundary issues in business relationships. (They don't necessarily, but they can, if you're not really careful.)


So I do think it's reasonable to:

- Ask whether they've exhausted their comfortable possibilities: sell a costume, have a yard sale, cut back on lattes, etc. (And to base your decision on how you feel about that.)

- Be clear about how much of the arrangement is you doing them a favor vs. just cutting out the cash middle-man in an exchange of services that would occur without the barter arrangement. (And, if it's not a pure favor, to expect them to treat the exchange as a business transaction.)

- Be clear about what you would need in order to feel good about doing them the favor. (i.e., if you would feel bad if they turned around and spent money on workshops, you need to tell them that. And if you can't have that discussion with them, bartering is a bad idea.)

Originally Posted by indigostars

For whatever reasons, friends and I have bartered various things even if we could've paid the other person.

I've bartered with friends and in a business relationship, and they were very different.


I traded babysitting for a photo shoot with a friend, and it was great. But what made it go smoothly is that we were exchanging favors. I would have babysat for them without compensation just to do a favor to my friend, and the photo shoot was a thank-you gift.

i.e., "social norms" were in effect. It was about reciprocity and helping out a friend, not a value-based transaction. She could have given me a bottle of wine, or taken me out to dinner instead of doing the shoot.


Bartering in a business relationship is different. We're exchanging goods or services that have a market value, based on our business decisions about we each need and want. I'm in a bartering arrangement that works because we're both clear that we're operating on behalf of our businesses. (We are close, but we work hard to keep our business hats on in the barter arrangement.)

i.e., "market norms" are in effect. We keep a formal account, and when she needs something from me, I earn a specific dollar amount based on my hourly rate. Then I "spend" that account balance on her goods and services when she has something I want. It's similar to her paying me in cash, and me buying a gift card. (Except for the extra attention needed to maintain the arrangement and relationship.)


I am very happy with both of my bartering relationships, but I think it was specifically because we always kept the context and the "norms" crystal clear. It's when the line between the personal favor and the business transaction gets blurry that bartering can get sticky.

Originally Posted by pghbelly1

I need your advice ladies and gents:
...in the week or so after talking with her I see that she is taking class with other instructors and workshops and planning on going to some summer concerts. Well- I don't really know how to take this.

Hmmm, don't really know what to say on this...
I can see fellow dancers helping out w/ class tuition, but workshops and concerts?
And as far as her getting assistance paying other instructors - IMO would be better she scaled back for a while and pay for some classes rather than in getting a free or discounted ride from everyone.

Are you in a position (or willing) to inquire after her w/ her other instructors?
Might help you decide how or if you plan on working w/ her on the barter thing.

Originally Posted by Chandra

Hmmm, don't really know what to say on this...
I can see fellow dancers helping out w/ class tuition, but workshops and concerts?

It's possible that family and friends could help with these things also, yes? One time a family member paid my way into an expensive workshop as a birthday gift. And concert tickets a common gift item, even among non-dancers.

Yes, it could very well be a gift - hard for any of us to judge not knowing her or her situation... Just based my opinion on what the OP provided us.


I'm a bit jaded when it comes to people asking for handout/assistance.
The last person I helped out damaged my trust a bit. A fellow dancer that fell onto hard times because contracts she handled for a transcription company got outsourced. I lent her $$ (was a pretty fair ammount too) so she could catch up her mortgage/utilites and get by till she got back on her feet. Over the next several months she came into the studio we both taught at -- showing off this new outfit, or that pair of shoes she'd just bought. Hoop and classes for it, workshops and a mini-vaca...
When I asked if she could maybe start paying me back (and again when I had my identy stolen and bank accounts frozen till things worked out - could she at least pay me $50 so I could eat) she couldn't manage to.

Fast forward 2 years and she is lost her home because she hadn't paid ANYTHING on the mortgage in all that time . But she still managed to keep on buying new clothes and new activities/retreats. Our friendship kinda blew up when I refused to promote OR donate to a 'fundraiser' to help her cover costs of first/last/deposit and moving expenses. (like she hadn't had a couple of years to plan and manage and make the move on her own resources)
BTW - it has now been 5 years and I have yet to even receive one red cent of that loan back...

I know I´m late jumping in,just wanted to share my experiences:-)


We had one student some years ago experiencing a rough patch in her personal economy,and she let my boss(and "dance mommy") know that 1 month before the term started.

Thinking over night my boss realized that she spent a lot of time cleaning up in the studio (outside the "normal"every week vacuuming&scrubbing floors),like sorting out left items like training clothes,jewellery,chargers,mobiles(dedicating time to get them back to rightful owners)

She offered the student to help out with that,and it went very well.

After this was known,many students that have time but not much money(between jobs,studying at university for example) were offering to take responsibility of the daily studio keep up:
Two spots each term for a free "multi pass"(+use studio for practise+read&watch everything in the resource library etc)in exchange for cleaning and doing towel laundry once a week.
This agreement is so popular now that students are even "booking it":-O

Another student is now "head of the storage"as we have a lot of costumes(Samasem keeps her dance wardrobe at the studio and loans them out,plus it´s good to see sewing&beading techniques close up for those designing their own costumes)all the troupe costumes etc.Things like replacing the loan zill elastics also something that must be done on a regular basis.

When the autumn workshops,festival and shows are on,the "checking in"staff gets free spots etc

All of this has worked out smoothly for years without any problem,and it would probably never have started if there haven´t been that first student taking the courage to offer her services in exchange for classes:-)

Originally Posted by pghbelly1

I am friends with the other instructors that she is taking lessons/ workshops with so I think that I will ask- just to satisfy my own curiosity.

I think you should ask *her* and not her instructors. I think that is a violation of her privacy. If you want to offer her a deal, and can afford it/need the help, do that. If it would hurt your bottom line or make you resentful, don't do it. If you feel that you need more information about her situation before you make a decision I would just ask her what you want to know. I am late to this and the issue has probably resolved but I couldn't help but notice the amount of the responses that speculated on the situation of the student, why not just ask her?

Recently my son got an invitation into an exclusive club at his Karate school, it's a lot more commitment, hard work and equipment. It's also double what I was struggling to pay before. I sucked up my pride and asked the teacher if I could barter for the difference because I simply could not fit the rise in tuition into the budget. The teacher looked me in the eyes and asked gently "what is your situation like?" I explained being in school and having a extremely tight budget right now because of that. He asked me specific questions and I answered them. We came to an agreement that we both felt good about with the understanding that we would re-negotiate if the situation changed for either of us.

My point is if you want to know something about her situation, or what other financial commitments she has, or have concerns about about her request, couldn't you just talk to her about them? Then you can come to an agreement with all the facts straight.

I'll give two perspectives:

From my experience with a bartering type deal. Initially it was helpful, however in the end, I ended up feeling taken advantage of as a young dancer. In hindsight, just a straight payment plan would have been best.

From that teacher's perspective, she told me that she rarely does bartering type deals since in the past SHE was burned by student's taking advantage of that situation.

If this (belly dancing, teaching lessons/workshops etc) is your only source of income, I think bartering is a slippery slope. If you do it for her (no matter how dedicated, how "ideal student/troupe member") she is, you have to do it for all students, otherwise you run the risk of demonstrating favoritism. If you can't say you'd be willing to do it for all students (in the event they were experiencing financial difficulties), I'd say only a payment plan and make sure its very clear and that you will be getting full tuition.

Knowing that people are still having a hard time paying their bills and affording classes they love dearly, I understand the want to help (i really appreciated when my teacher helped me out), but I'd say make sure you keep things very business oriented and not blur the lines where you may come off as a concerned friend not a professional instructor. To be honest, I'd go as far as to draw up a contract (doesn't have to be complicated, but it keeps it on paper). The last thing you want is find yourself giving up free lessons due to manipulative bartering (god forbid).

If you have information (which I would be wary off) that this student is taking other classes, workshops, etc etc, you need to make the decision as best you can. That's a tough one. I'd be one to not want to help (especially if my colleagues are telling me she's an active student at THEIR studios). Who knows she may have you all fooled and getting lessons for discounted or "bartered" rates all over the place....On the flip side, you don't really know. You can't approach her about it, that would be completely unprofessional and it may all be misinterpreted.

My only universal advice here is to be upfront, clear and in control: there's no reason you need to compromise, if you need this money to pay rent, then she may need to find a way to afford YOUR tuition in full. You deserve to be compensated for a class your teaching and expertise. Good luck

Here is my two cents, to be added to the excellent thoughts and advice already contributed.

Unlike most businesses, when we are selling skills to people who want to learn them (be it dance, typography, a language - whatever), the line between a business relationship and a friendship can quickly become blurred. We all know this, and it's not news. After all, in the students are there because they have an interest in the very thing the teacher is making their living from, so there's already a foundation for a personal relationship.

This is particularly true for an artform like belly dance, where teachers and students can spend a lot of 'out of class time' together (be it rehearsing for shows, sitting together at haflas or whatever). So to pghbelly1 I would say - reanalyse your relationship with your student. Is she a student you're on friendly terms with, or an actual friend? What really motivated you to agree to help her in the first place? And how do you think she views you - as her teacher AND a friend?

What I'm trying (in a long-winded way) to say is, if you find out that these other workshops and classes have NOT been offered to her at a discount, try to temper your justifiable anger. It may be that you were the only person she asked for a discount because she felt closest to you.

That does not mean that she has treated you fairly, and that does not mean that you shouldn't feel angry that she tried to take advantage of your good nature.* But it may mean that you have to make it clear to all your new students what your policy around offering discounts or like-for-like trade is.

For what it's worth, I think that your reasons for wanting to help her are absolutely valid and I hope that if I were in the same position as your student that I would find my own teacher as selflessly supportive as you have been.

*On the assumption that she did, of course!