Thread: Class Dynamics (Front Row Divas)

One of the things that I experienced when I was teaching, both in gyms and in dance studios was the phenomenon of the Front Row Diva.

This is the person who is almost always on time, is enthusiastic about being in class, has decent form, wants to learn, is enthusiastic and motivated. Also, obviously, they start out in the front row, and like being there.

most of the time, this is fabulous. If your front row is experienced and doing what you've asked them to do with good form, you can walk around and correct or give constructive criticism to others while they are demonstrating the moves and the class has someone to follow.

Other benefits are:
1. Help you stay on the phrase
2. Help you to remember the choreo
3. Demonstrate advanced options
4. Energize your class
5. Keep your class numbers high

Sometimes, rarely, you have someone who meets the above description, but also becomes territorial of "their spot" in the front row.

I've seen this in workshops, where people are asked to rotate rows, and the person is unwilling to, or in classes where for some reason, they have arrived late, and someone else is in "their spot". I've seen confrontations where the person has demanded that the person in "their spot" move. I've heard reasons such as "I'm here every day, I deserve that spot" to "You don't know what you're doing, get to the back where you belong"

I've seen people crowd the person that they feel is taking "their spot" to make them so uncomfortable that they move, or actually being so close, they whacked them during a turn or something. I saw a fight at a gym break out because of that move.

How do you as an instructor manage this behavior without alienating either party? You want both to return*, so how do you manage?

*I don't know that I'd want the person who whacked the other back, but YMMV

For the record:

I am always in the front or second row (eyesight issues)
I remember short combinations well and have excellent sense of timing
I can demo advanced movements

I DON'T imagine that I own my spot.
If I don't feel well, up to demoing, or it's new material that I'm not yet comfortable with, I hang out in the back.

I've been called a Front Row Diva, but I'm not obnoxious about it

Holy cow. I think if I saw grown-up women actually having an altercation about someone's "spot" in a bellydance class, my jaw would hit the floor!

I think I'd half-jokingly tell them I was going to separate them and I'd (for real!) send them both to the back row, to opposite corners.

I would not spend class time trying to sort out who was the instigator, but I would tell the class at large that we are adults, we function without assigned seating, and class spots are always on a first-come, first-serve basis.

Originally Posted by kina

I've seen this in workshops, where people are asked to rotate rows, and the person is unwilling to,

The only time I've experienced this is when a student had vision or hearing problems or was unusually short, and I don't begrudge someone who needs the front row a permanent spot there, just like it doesn't bother me when unusually tall dancers, dancers with physical conditions who require frequent breaks, extravagant note takers, and other back-row folks don't want to rotate forward. If you've got a valid reason to be in a particular spot in the room, and you're not being disruptive about it, why should you have to move? It's one thing if you're in a beginner situation where the teacher is actively monitoring your technique, but workshop teachers don't often offer personal corrections in a room of 50+ students. If a workshop teacher wants to micromanage where students stand, I'd rather they worry about regular spacing between students than row rotation, especially if the teacher isn't on a raised stage. I want good sight lines the whole time more than rotating and only being able to see part of the time.

How do you as an instructor manage this behavior without alienating either party? You want both to return*, so how do you manage?

*I don't know that I'd want the person who whacked the other back, but YMMV

As soon as someone's spot becomes so important that they're interfering with another student's ability to participate in class, or worse, if they're becoming a physical risk to another student, I think the teacher has the right to intervene. I'd suggest: (1) talking to Ms. Spot privately after class, (2) stern looks and discrete corrections if the behavior continues into the next class, and (3) a threat that you're going to cordon off her "territory" the following week with traffic cones and clothesline if it the Manifest Destiny doesn't stop.

I'm a student that learns best by being able to see the instructor's feet. I need to be somewhere central. The far left or right is out of the question.

Of course, I don't have to be in the front (prefer the back actually) but I do try to get a spot that helps me to learn. This means being a little early so that I can have more options. However, the way I see it, if I don't get my preferred spot, that's tough for me. I can't imagine asking someone to move. I even feel bad asking someone to give me space when they are practically abusing me with their cane. :P

I used to be a front row diva, but nowadays, I prefer to hang around at the back with all the cool girls, er, I mean, so that I can take copious notes without getting in people's way.

But what bugs the hell out of me is when the front row is hanging about half way down the room, and squishing everyone at the back. Move the hell forwards, use the space, people!!!

Originally Posted by kina

One of the things that I experienced when I was teaching, both in gyms and in dance studios was the phenomenon of the Front Row Diva.

This is the person who is almost always on time, is enthusiastic about being in class, has decent form, wants to learn, is enthusiastic and motivated. Also, obviously, they start out in the front row, and like being there.

most of the time, this is fabulous. If your front row is experienced and doing what you've asked them to do with good form, you can walk around and correct or give constructive criticism to others while they are demonstrating the moves and the class has someone to follow.

Other benefits are:
1. Help you stay on the phrase
2. Help you to remember the choreo
3. Demonstrate advanced options
4. Energize your class
5. Keep your class numbers high

Sometimes, rarely, you have someone who meets the above description, but also becomes territorial of "their spot" in the front row.

I've seen this in workshops, where people are asked to rotate rows, and the person is unwilling to, or in classes where for some reason, they have arrived late, and someone else is in "their spot". I've seen confrontations where the person has demanded that the person in "their spot" move. I've heard reasons such as "I'm here every day, I deserve that spot" to "You don't know what you're doing, get to the back where you belong"

I've seen people crowd the person that they feel is taking "their spot" to make them so uncomfortable that they move, or actually being so close, they whacked them during a turn or something. I saw a fight at a gym break out because of that move.

How do you as an instructor manage this behavior without alienating either party? You want both to return*, so how do you manage?

*I don't know that I'd want the person who whacked the other back, but YMMV

Wow!! I've never experienced this in a class!!

From a student perspective, I've experienced this on the receiving end. I've had one woman edge me out of where I happened to be standing at the start of the class by encroaching so closely there was nothing for me to do but move -- to the edge of the class, because I wasn't going to disrupt anyone else. Given that we were working on something that was new to me, getting pushed out to where I had very little room to move and couldn't see the mirror was not at all pleasing and pretty distracting for me. It was overtly deliberate, which added to the distraction. I wasn't going to say anything because I didn't want to be disruptive and I'm not that assertive (and I was new to that class). I made sure to be standing on the other side of the room from her the next week. I think some people are innately a little territorial, not necessarily diva-ish (though some are that), and maybe a non-pointed general reminder from the instructor when that happens about making adequate space would help remind such people to sublimate the lizard brain a little. I can say for myself that for the student getting edged out, it *is* distracting, and it's hard to get the full value of the instruction that way. It's a lot less likely to cause confrontation or bad feeling if a request to give some space is coming from the instructor, I think.

I'm a front row diva who takes her turn at the back.

In the past I've been in a workshop and had someone try and crowd me out by standing right next to me (I was there first!), and this was about halfway down the room. I said "If you stand there I will hit you" - I meant accidentally when dancing! - and she moved. Some people genuinely don't seem to have an awareness of how much space they need to dance. Some people think they are too important to be anywhere other than front row centre

I do like to stand in the front row and I try to be early to be able to do just that. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But if I'm late I just go to the back, no problem. Well, actually it is, but just for me, and I'm not going to make it anybody elses problem (I'm 4,9 and I don't hear too well, still I wouldn't claim a front row spot, when I know it was my own fault being late). I just try to find a spot where I can see as much as possible and aks the teacher to repeat louder if I can't understand what he/she is saying.

What I hate is when people try to get you to move with physically threatening you and coming closer with every step. I used to be a really shy and non-confrontive girl. But I'm just not gonna take anything like that anymore and open my mouth. I do it politely but I will not let it happen anymore. I remember the times when I wouldn't say anything. It got me frustrated as hell. Being mad at someone takes a lot of your energy and concentration so you can't pay attention to the lesson. So you miss more things which gets you even more frustrated. Not gonna let that happen again

A really good approach (I thought at first) by the instructor in a WS was to tell the front row divas to let the others go to the front row, to see if they could do the moves without following the front row girls (btw that was a WS I was in the front first but got got edged out by the divas). Pitty it didn't work, they claimed "their" territory back after about 30 seconds.

One way that I felt didn't work re. crowding: I was asked to move to a different location.

Now the back story: I was early (10 minutes), had my place in the room, it was all good. This other woman comes in about 10 minutes late (so I was in my spot 20 minutes total before she enters) and crowds me. She was new to the class, so she probably didn't feel entitled to the place but who knows? Anyway, my 4'10 self nearly kicked her during the technique sections; not intentionally, but we were doing things that entailed kicks. I refused to move on principle, and this woman didn't move for whatever reasons.

The teacher knew me and knew I was easy-going, so she pointed out the crowding issues (blaming neither of us, which was fine) and asked me to move. It probably was for the best but still. I felt like it was rewarding this woman's crappy behavior, but YMMV.

The more confident in a class I feel the higher forward I move. It's not even conscious. But of course once I am in the front row I am aware that I am there and am very willing to move back when the class is rotated.

I do tend to get pushed forward, also. Despite the fact that I am fairly tall, and have therefore spent my entire life aware that I might be 'in someone's way' and in the back row of photos etc (where I remain).

Originally Posted by Zumarrad

I do tend to get pushed forward, also. Despite the fact that I am fairly tall, and have therefore spent my entire life aware that I might be 'in someone's way' and in the back row of photos etc (where I remain).

I find this, too. I'm tall with very long limbs, so I need a lot of space in class to not hit people or travel into them. I tend to end up at the front just because it's the only way I can avoid getting crowded - if I'm near the back, the front row tend to keep shuffling backwards and encroaching on my space. I'm not particularly shy about being at the front, so if I stand where everyone else is too scared to stand, I don't get people edging into places where I'll then potentially poke their eye out. But I do then feel guilty about being tall and probably blocking the view for the shorties hiding at the back. Still, if everyone else wants to clump at the back of the room, there's not much I can do about it...

I'm also starting to think that in big, crowded workshops, the only way to get your money's worth and actually learn anything is to quite agressively wrangle yourself into the front row. I don't like doing this at all, but I've noticed other more experienced dancers doing it very obviously, and although it's a nasty tactic, when in an overcrowded workshop situation it does become tempting to just elbow everyone out of the way rather than stand further back thinking about how you've just spent some unholy sum of money to faintly hear the muffled voice of someone famous from behind a wall of people, and catch occasional brief glimpses of parts of their body.

One of the better ways I've seen to handle more crowded workshops is the instructors asks the front rows to sit down while the instructor demonstrates/explains. It's very helpful.

The main issue I have at workshops isn't really height-related. I couldn't care less if someone super tall is near the front of the workshop unless it's a fairly empty workshop or class and s/he stands right in front of me, blocking my view in the mirror (which has happened). The issue I have is when people don't switch, e.g. go to the back when it is that time.

I understand some people have special needs, like hearing or visual impairment, I really doubt 30+ people (especially ones I know well-ish) have those issues. To me, that's a front row diva (which is a term I adore), the person who thinks s/he is entitled to the front row to the extent the rules of the workshop or common courtesy do not apply. I think some of it is thoughtless, though; IMO, most people aren't aware of things.

I don't attend those big crowded super expensive workshops, I just don't learn very well in that environment. I actually learn so much more in weekly classes, but I do attend local workshops as often as possible. There are amazing dancers here, even if they are not nationally known, and national and internationally-known teachers also come through here a few times a year, but the workshops haven't been over crowded so far.

I'm still digesting a nugget-filled workshop by a regional instructor that I attended a month or so ago, and I am looking forward to a workshop with a different regional instructor this weekend. I fully expect to get my butt kicked. In a good way.

I tend to hang out at the back in workshops, or in the middle. I like to be able to see the teacher's feet. And I get a little self conscious when trying to master new challenging stuff.

Some workshops have the teacher on a raised stage, which can be very helpful.

I love the idea of having people sit down while the teacher demos things. Most students around here seem to dance along with the demos even when asked not to!

I've never actually encountered a front row diva, though, for which I am grateful. I can't imagine whacking, elbowing, etc. I live in Oregon, where people are known for being laid back. And I like it that way!

If any dancer physically assaulted (I don't mean accidentally) another dancer, they'd be out on their butt immediately and permanently. That is a crime. I absolutely do not understand why any instructor would tolerate this or take any kind of "oh, the (assaulting) dancer just got upset ..." NOpe. G-O-N-E.

Originally Posted by kina

For the record:

I am always in the front or second row (eyesight issues)
I remember short combinations well and have excellent sense of timing
I can demo advanced movements

I DON'T imagine that I own my spot.
If I don't feel well, up to demoing, or it's new material that I'm not yet comfortable with, I hang out in the back.

I've been called a Front Row Diva, but I'm not obnoxious about it

That's the kind of front row diva that I am. I think that's healthy. But getting into catty "that's my spot" fights is just silly. No one owns any specific spot in class. If you want a specific spot, get there early enough.

When there are occasional "spacing" problems, often it is a newer dancer who can't hold their position while trying to learn at the same time. It's a "body space" awareness that takes some folks longer to develop than others. Teachers I've taken class from have always addressed this and it has never gotten confrontational exactly, but I've been bumped into, accidentally whacked with an out-flung arm or had my foot stepped on in class even when there is plenty of space to dance. Happens. Usually if another dancer is having trouble staying in their spot; I just move to back - sorta like "driving defensively".

Originally Posted by dunyah

I don't attend those big crowded super expensive workshops, I just don't learn very well in that environment. I actually learn so much more in weekly classes, but I do attend local workshops as often as possible. There are amazing dancers here, even if they are not nationally known, and national and internationally-known teachers also come through here a few times a year, but the workshops haven't been over crowded so far.

I'm still digesting a nugget-filled workshop by a regional instructor that I attended a month or so ago, and I am looking forward to a workshop with a different regional instructor this weekend. I fully expect to get my butt kicked. In a good way.

I tend to hang out at the back in workshops, or in the middle. I like to be able to see the teacher's feet. And I get a little self conscious when trying to master new challenging stuff.

Some workshops have the teacher on a raised stage, which can be very helpful.

I love the idea of having people sit down while the teacher demos things. Most students around here seem to dance along with the demos even when asked not to!

I've never actually encountered a front row diva, though, for which I am grateful. I can't imagine whacking, elbowing, etc. I live in Oregon, where people are known for being laid back. And I like it that way!

I love going to workshops with a raised stage. Along with proper flooring, good mirrors, etc. A girl can dream... Sometimes it's hard in this niche market to get all these things, or for some reason or another it's impractical.

Originally Posted by yameyameyame

That's the kind of front row diva that I am. I think that's healthy. But getting into catty "that's my spot" fights is just silly. No one owns any specific spot in class. If you want a specific spot, get there early enough.

Exactly. In my case, i have astigmatism, so I can't really see very well straight on. To the right of the instructor and in the front is absolutely best for me. I also need to see the muscle movement and foot placement in order to "get it"

But honestly, I'm late, or am not well, off the back I go.

Originally Posted by Nisima

When there are occasional "spacing" problems, often it is a newer dancer who can't hold their position while trying to learn at the same time. It's a "body space" awareness that takes some folks longer to develop than others.

I've observed the same. I can't remember where I saw it, but there was the evolution of the gym bunny graphic I saw, baggy sweats, back row, more fitted clothing, middle row, very fitted gym clothing, front row. Partially the self confidence of getting fitter but also, learning the movements, combinations etc make it easier to stand in the front. Some people no matter what will not go up front.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Holy cow. I think if I saw grown-up women actually having an altercation about someone's "spot" in a bellydance class, my jaw would hit the floor!

I think I'd half-jokingly tell them I was going to separate them and I'd (for real!) send them both to the back row, to opposite corners.

I would not spend class time trying to sort out who was the instigator, but I would tell the class at large that we are adults, we function without assigned seating, and class spots are always on a first-come, first-serve basis.

The person who whacked the other was barred from the gym I worked at. I was a workshop in NYC that was quite full. I was on the right side, more in the middle row. A woman came in late, begged to be allowed to come in to the sold out workshop, and proceeded to crowd me. Intensely. Until she started whacking me.

I gave her the benefit of the doubt until the third time, I stopped dead, looked at her levelly and said, in a very low tone "enough." that was the end of that. I think sometimes people are just bullies.

Originally Posted by Kaleena

I'm a student that learns best by being able to see the instructor's feet. I need to be somewhere central. The far left or right is out of the question.

Of course, I don't have to be in the front (prefer the back actually) but I do try to get a spot that helps me to learn. This means being a little early so that I can have more options. However, the way I see it, if I don't get my preferred spot, that's tough for me. I can't imagine asking someone to move. I even feel bad asking someone to give me space when they are practically abusing me with their cane. :P

Exactly.

Originally Posted by beafarhana

I used to be a front row diva, but nowadays, I prefer to hang around at the back with all the cool girls, er, I mean, so that I can take copious notes without getting in people's way.

But what bugs the hell out of me is when the front row is hanging about half way down the room, and squishing everyone at the back. Move the hell forwards, use the space, people!!!

YES!!!

Being partially blind in one eye, it helps to be behind and a little to the right of the teacher. If I am early enough, that's the spot I'll stake out for myself, especially if we are in the early stages of learning a piece. Lucky if i get it, but I certainly don't think of it as "my spot!" If someone is already there, I just find another place, preferably on the right side of the room. Sometimes I have to wander about a little in the back before I can find a comfortable position, especially if the room is crowded. But even if I do score some prime real estate, I will readily give it up to someone else if I sense that she is struggling to keep up with stuff I have already got down. And... I totally agree with Bea! Move up, people!

I think people in general gravitate to what they feel is a "safe" place in a class. This holds true for children and adults. My middle school students pick a seat at the beginning of the year and many of them get very upset if I try to change things up a bit after a few weeks. And how many of you sit in the same seat at the supper table or the same place in the living room while watching tv?

In dance class, when I'm not teaching, I feel most comfortable in the back row, preferably on the left side of the room. We definitely are creatures of habit!

I'm a front row diva in a very particular situation:

You go to a workshop. The front row of people is muuuuuch too far back from the teacher. And the rest of the room is filling up.

I GO AND START A NEW FRONT ROW. Other people join me and teacher encourages us: "I don't bite! I showered this morning!"

People in previous front row all curse me internally.

But seriously, in a crowded workshop you have to move up. Otherwise the back row will be smashed.

Originally Posted by tigerb

I'm a front row diva in a very particular situation:

You go to a workshop. The front row of people is muuuuuch too far back from the teacher. And the rest of the room is filling up.

I GO AND START A NEW FRONT ROW. Other people join me and teacher encourages us: "I don't bite! I showered this morning!"

People in previous front row all curse me internally.

But seriously, in a crowded workshop you have to move up. Otherwise the back row will be smashed.

This! I hate when people crowd backwards, and I'm not too shy about just standing out in front of the crowd when this happens. If they have a problem with that, they can move forwards too! Grr. I also wish teachers/sponsors would be more proactive in herding people forwards and reminding them not to squash the back row into the wall, especially after changing lines...

Entertainingly, I had a version of this in my class this week. I have a very small class, and the same students stand in the saaaaaame spots every week.

This week, we're at a point where we doing a fair amount of travelling and one student in particular keeps bumping into another - so I freaked 'em out with bringing two of them forwards. OMG! Towards me and the scary, scary mirrors!

And the I tried to move them up towards the door a bit... and the one who bumps into the other barely moved. So again I said (complete with waved hand gestures) - "Move up a bit - up a bit! Up, up, up!"

Still she didn't move. "I'm in my space! This is MY space!"

To which I smiled big and said: "Nope, honey, there's no 'your' space in MY class. ALLLLLLLL of this space is MINE." They laughed, she moved, all was good.

Originally Posted by wigglewhiz

Entertainingly, I had a version of this in my class this week. I have a very small class, and the same students stand in the saaaaaame spots every week.

This week, we're at a point where we doing a fair amount of travelling and one student in particular keeps bumping into another - so I freaked 'em out with bringing two of them forwards. OMG! Towards me and the scary, scary mirrors!

And the I tried to move them up towards the door a bit... and the one who bumps into the other barely moved. So again I said (complete with waved hand gestures) - "Move up a bit - up a bit! Up, up, up!"

Still she didn't move. "I'm in my space! This is MY space!"

To which I smiled big and said: "Nope, honey, there's no 'your' space in MY class. ALLLLLLLL of this space is MINE." They laughed, she moved, all was good.

Nicely done!!

I'm finding this thread very helpful not only from a students perspective, but it's giving me some good material for when and if I return to teaching.

Originally Posted by tigerb

I'm a front row diva in a very particular situation:

You go to a workshop. The front row of people is muuuuuch too far back from the teacher. And the rest of the room is filling up.

I GO AND START A NEW FRONT ROW. Other people join me and teacher encourages us: "I don't bite! I showered this morning!"

People in previous front row all curse me internally.

But seriously, in a crowded workshop you have to move up. Otherwise the back row will be smashed.

I do this too

My first pick is usually spots where i have plenty of room to move, but if these spots happen to be in front- all the better. Because of wanting plenty of space I stand a lot in the back, but if there's available space somewhere in the rows ahead of me and nobody else seems to want to stand there I'm not too shy to step up. If there's enough space in front to form a new row, I'll take it. No point in everybody crowding the back when there are great spots for the taking in front.

Great thread. I recently had the experience of being in the second/back row of a small but full workshop, and having the first/front row constantly moving back and crowding us. I really wanted to remain unobtrusive, but the workshop was on using emotion in dance, and I think everyone was starting to be a bit shy about it, including those in the front row.

Since a few of the posters talked about big workshops, I wonder if I can ask why people go to them at all. I just don't get it. The largest workshop I ever went to was with Shareen el Safy in NYC, but it was still in a moderately-sized dance studio and a lot of it was lecture too. It was full, but you could still see her well, and no mike was needed. But I've seen pictures of these huge hotel ballrooms with hundreds of people, and then I wonder -- what are you getting out of it? A choreo? That's not so worth it for me, as I'd forget most of it anyway. I'm assuming the instructor can't really do corrections the way I've had teachers do in small workshops. So....?

Are these workshops much cheaper? I'd get it if they cost $10 or something, but otherwise, I'd rather just spend the money on a DVD I can play and replay. That way, at least, I can see Jillina's face. :)

Originally Posted by philoclea

Are these workshops much cheaper? I'd get it if they cost $10 or something, but otherwise, I'd rather just spend the money on a DVD I can play and replay. That way, at least, I can see Jillina's face. :)

I'm with you.

If you crunch your numbers and decide you can't make money on your workshop with a reasonable number of people in the room, DON'T host the workshop.

And if you crunched the numbers and learned that you CAN make money with a reasonable number of people in the room, then you have to STOP selling space in the workshop when it's reasonably full. To keep letting more and more people sign up is just GREED and very poor customer service.

I attended one workshop where perhaps 80 people were crammed onto a dance floor that could have probably served 25 comfortably. No raised stage or mike for the instructor, either. And we were learning a veil choreo! The instructor came from a neighboring state, not halfway around the planet, and the studio belonged to the host, so it was a cheap workshop to host and NO reason other than greed to torture the participants.

Workshop organizers need to CAP THEIR WORKSHOPS. I hate, hate, hate being in a dance workshop where I can't move.

And no, giving each participant a four by four foot square is not enough if you will be traveling!!! I can only take being whacked by the arms of others for so long before I walk out!!

WE PAY TO TAKE YOUR WORKSHOP. If you make it so that we can't successfully take it, why did we pay you?