Thread: Teacher's Dance Identity Getting Lost?

Nevermind :)

Nevermind :)

Progressing students think anything you do (signature moves, your look, your jobs!) are up for grabs.

I don't understand what you mean. You are teaching your girls moves and sharing with them so why are you getting upset. I must be missing something.

Our teacher showed us EVERY SINGLE move she knew and she told us to use them in our own dances. The one thing she said that has stayed with me for this long is, "you should never feel a move is yours b/c somewhere throughout the history of dance someone else has done it before you did". There are never any new moves to claim as our OWN.

Sorry if I'm completley off point but that's what I got out of it.

:)

Originally Posted by SadiyyaBintSaid

Nevermind :)

Sadiyya, I'm sorry you felt the need to delete your post! I was really looking forward to what other teachers had to say.

That's true - I agree :)

Originally Posted by SadiyyaBintSaid

Just to clarify, I'm extremely happy when I see my students succeed and become accomplished performers, but they need to find their own identity, their own way of presenting the dance.

You need to *teach* them how to find their own style, then. I've always hated when teachers tried to make me a clone of themselves, I wanted to dance with my own voice, not be a ventriloquist's dummy for someone else.

Show them videos & DVDs of lots of other dancers, in as many different styles as you can find. Tell them about workshops with other teachers, in other dance styles, or teachers with different teaching styles. In class, make them look for their own expression, using the moves that work for *their* body, make them think for themselves, develop their own step combinations, let their personality shine through their dancing. Once they feel they are ready to start performing, that's when you need to turn the pressure on them a little higher, so they know there's still a long road of learning ahead of them!

And you have to make it clear that your jobs are *your* jobs

Originally Posted by SadiyyaBintSaid

Nevermind :)

Sorry! I posted too soon!
*whispers* Psst- Want to join the teachers group?

Two issues going on here:

1) Most of us have signature moves which we use. Those of us in the belly dance community know where they come from. Think Fahteim's arabesque. How many of us have studied Samia Gamal videos so that we cna dance like Samia? I can pick out students of Mesmera from a block away.

For me the polite thing to do is to do is to acknowledge where we get what ever we get. I learned X-Y-Z from thise teacher.

2) Students who steel your jobs are just a problem. And unfortunately, that will always happen. And soem clients look at a dancer and say, Hmmm, I relaly like how she dances, but would like something a little different. And they find that int eh student of whomever the dancer is.

Anyway to help change the trend you are seeing? You can always have guest teachers in class who dance significantly differnetly than you do? Who can offer your students a differnet perspective on dance and help them to expand their personal style and develop their own signatuyre moves and repetoir?

Just some thoughts.

{{{HUGS}}}

(guessing at the original topic based on the snippets in quotes -- cuz this is too good a topic to die!)

Michelle is right, IMO, that a teacher should generously share with her students, and that we can't own dance moves or even combinations. (don't we all find 'inspiration' when we watch other dancers live or on video, even if they're not our teacher?)

And I agree that we should ALWAYS be encouraging our students to find their own voice, study with other instructors. (I strongly feel that this starts with not being judgemental of other people's dancing in front of them, so they feel safe to experiement).

However, I suspect a very real concern is being voiced here! It takes a while for students to find their own 'voice,' and some students will never feel confident/creative enough to stray from their teacher's style no matter how much we encourage them.

Is a teacher not supposed to have feelings about this? Taking Sadiyya out of the topic (since she took herself out), we all get tired of seeing the Rachel Brice clones, but how do you suppose Rachel feels about having her once-unique style adoped by so many?

Interesting replies everyone! Thanks for the valuable input. This is definitley info all teachers should incorporate into their teaching methods! Belly dance is such a great way for individuals to express themselves as individuals, that students who dance exactly like their teachers not only gets old and predictable (and makes the original teacher not so original anymore), but also limits the students' potential!

Originally Posted by Lauren_

(I strongly feel that this starts with not being judgemental of other people's dancing in front of them, so they feel safe to experiement).

This point in particular resonates strongly with me. I've had teachers be very outspoken about "hating" certain styles, to the point where, even if I personally liked the style, I knew I'd never be comfortable exploring it while taking those teachers' classes. I don't think they realize what a damper that sort of opinionated outburst puts on a student's desire to reach beyond what she's currently being taught.

students who dance exactly like their teachers not only gets old and predictable (and makes the original teacher not so original anymore), but also limits the students' potential!

Sa'diyya, you hit the nail on the head. I believe you should share this with your students. Bring it in during warm up in a non chalant way. Don't stare directly at one student. As your stretching say exactly what you typed above. I think students will totally understand what you are saying. Learn the moves you are teaching them BUT put their own spin on them to make them different.

That's all from me:)

Suggest that they study with other people. I'm not an instructor but I don't think I dance like my teacher, because I've had many different ones.

What level are these students? At one point, I realized there were certain moves I didn't care for, like the hip drop with a kick/release. Current teacher seems to like them. Maybe tell them that they aren't obligated to stick to one thing? I kind of doubt that their tastes mirror yours exactly.

I do appreciate the teachers that are extremely generous with the knowledge they share as I feel that is how my teacher is. Its also important for students to develop their own identity versus being a clone of their teacher. In my experience, a student can develop her own identity through practicing and drilling and she will eventually come to realize what steps she likes, what looks good on her, what she feels comfortable doing, including developing her taste/style in dancing, choreographing and costuming.

I'm really curious how other teachers teach students to have their own style. How do you teach that?

I know how to encourage students to have their own style. And I always encourage them to study with multiple teachers and seek out all kinds of inspiration...I find when I am studying with someone my style often morphs with theirs.

I know some students also naturally have their own style. I am in a class with a girl right now who has an awesome individual style (I've never seen anyone like her) and so our teacher is reluctant to criticise some of the student's dancing because she doesn't want to alter that sense of individuality.

But for those of you who teach how to be an individual, how do you do that? I think I can only teach someone to dance like me. Of course, I can be open when they dance like someone else, but I am really curious...

It's actually bloody hard to do, I think. Because I am teaching a particular approach to core moves, for one, and then choreographies for a group,for two, there's some inevitable homogenisation that occurs. But at the same time I don't want to stifle people's own preferences and individual interpretations. The way I was taught was "I would like you to do it this way at this time", and with a lot of focus on making the dancer look their best. I know that's the reason my teacher, for argument's sake, directed me to dance with my feet closer together, because it looked more elegant, and sure as eggs is eggs, if you ever see pix of me with my feet apart it looks ungainly. I prefer a smaller base anyway so I tend to direct people towards one. But if they want to adopt a wider base on their own, they can. Certain moves and styles need one.

The thing that is hard sometimes to work around is the difference between "individual style" and "bad habits". A person might want to say, not extending their arms fully is their "style", or not controlling their hips is their "style", but if it looks bad, isn't it better to correct? And isn't it better to be able to do something a variety of ways due to having good core technique than only one way?

You can teach a student to Want to explore their own style, but if you have specialized technique or even a formalized method of teaching any sort of technique (as most of us do) then the students are going to learn what you teach. Including stylistic nuances that will identify with "your style".

My mum is an amazing teacher, she has been teaching me to teach for near on 10 yrs now and I still constantly look to her for advice and example. And none of her students dance like her. Especially not me. I love her teaching style and what she does that teaches a student to have their own style is...

1. Recognizing strengths unique to the student and encouraging their development.

2. Giving frank feedback on weaknesses and developing ways With the student to overcome them

3. Open to, providing information on and teaching a wide variety of styles

4. Encouraging students to take with a variety of teachers

The thing is that you don't really have a good wide ranging idea of how your teaching affects students until you have been teaching many students for many years and can see the overall, consistent response to your teaching style.

[QUOTE=zumarrad;8124]It's actually bloody hard to do, I think. Because I am teaching a particular approach to core moves, for one, and then choreographies for a group,for two, there's some inevitable homogenisation that occurs. QUOTE]

Yes, I am having trouble envisioning how anyone would do that at all. I'd love to hear about it, but I can't picture it.

When I teach people English, I obviously teach them how to speak with a (southern Ontario) Canadian accent...and I think dance is the same. There are lots of other accents out there, but I can only teach mine.

Many students will repeat their teachers' choreographies and thus you can spot the teacher in the student pretty easily. In Los Angeles, we've probably all seen Jillina/Sahlala choreographies a lot. In that case, I get tired of the same choreos over and over - but haven't found the dancer to be a "thief"...the dancer is doing what she's learned and puts her flavor/spin into it.

Also, there was awhile there that I felt that if I saw another example of Dina overload, I'd scream. But that seems to have phased out or else I'm not paying attention.

Wow, I wish that I could look like any of my teachers - I think it's a hard thing to do to mimic someone's style. I know some people can do it; I hate them!

What about this - do you think we actually know when we're looking like a carbon copy of our teachers? Do we even see it? And, maybe it's a phenomenon of a particular stage of dancer - after a certain amount of time but before they are ready to be "pro" (whatever that means).

Hey Eshe,

Where in Ontario are you from? You can pm me if you prefer not to post. Sorry to hijack the thread but I'm curious. I'm from Kitchener-Waterloo area. ..g.:



[/QUOTE]When I teach people English, I obviously teach them how to speak with a (southern Ontario) Canadian accent...and I think dance is the same. There are lots of other accents out there, but I can only teach mine.[/QUOTE]

Hey,
I PMd you. I'm from Ancaster (Hamilton)

Originally Posted by zumarrad

The thing that is hard sometimes to work around is the difference between "individual style" and "bad habits". A person might want to say, not extending their arms fully is their "style", or not controlling their hips is their "style", but if it looks bad, isn't it better to correct? And isn't it better to be able to do something a variety of ways due to having good core technique than only one way?

totally agree. i think is akin to "you have to know the rules before you can break the rules."
when "that's my style" translates to "i'm too lazy to work to get it right," it's a problem.

the art of teaching includes knowing the difference between correcting something that's wrong and "correcting" something that's fine, but not exactly the way you do it. those who do the latter either don't know the difference,or are in the "the only right way is my way" camp, or they are directing a dance company. the first need to learn the difference and there's no excuse for "my way's right", but dance company directors have to introduce some uniformity to not look sloppy.
think about the average troupe, does it really look like an organic whole, or is it really a bunch of soloists all doing the same thing at the same time. Much of what Reda introduced was to enable the company to be coordinated, so the movements were synchronized. when Jillina taught regular classes, she often taught Sahlala choreographies. when she corrected me, she'd get me to do what worked and looked good and let me make it my own. When she corrected a Sahlala Dancer, she'd correct her to do it exactly the way she wanted. that's what she had to do to realize her vision of the Sahlala Dancers.
if you're not directing a company to a specific look, you should not insist every move be executed exactly as you would, but on the other hand, it's really hard sometimes to get the student to not try to do it exactly like you do. if your student doesn't have a vision for herself, she's going to try to be the only "personal style" in front of her: yours. getting someone to develop their own style and essence is really hard. i think the more outgoing a person is, the easier it is.

a story with a totally different perspective on students' being a carbon copy of their teacher:

i was aghast when i learned that a student set her heart on performing at Cairo Carnivale the same choreography that Jillina was going to perform. she was not a good dancer, in spite of all Jillina did with her, and i asked Jillina, why are you letting her do this, won't it look bad, her doing this just hours before you do?!
Jillina gave me a wry smile and said, "Do you think people will even recognize it's the same choreography?"

Jillina knew her own performance wasn't going to be tarnished by the attempt to copy her, and she wasn't going to hurt this woman's feelings by forbidding her to follow her fantasy and be "just like Jillina." Said dancer was thrilled and i believe i was the only person who knew they were the "same" choreography.

Well, it is a catch-22, I mean students need to learn basics from SOMEONE cosistently enough before they can even begin to form their own style, and to do that they need to do more than just see other dancers - they need workshops that explore differently approaches to things. Unfortunately, not every student has the time and resources to do more than dance the same way instructor is teaching, or it may take years. Personally, I wouldn't be the least insulted if someone copied *my style* at all; imitation being the sincerest form of flattery and all. Still, in our dance company, the director periodically arranges for workshops, the latest was Dahlena this past Saturday and her approach and technique is very very different - was truly worthwhile 3 hours and we sold out! I think for many dancers, it is progressive and sometimes very circuitous process of developing their own "style" - in the meantime, they are performing what they've been taught and I see no problem with that.
Now, "job stealing" by imitating style is a separate issue......