Thread: "Not giving it all away" and the hafla perofrmance

I hear this a lot from Egyptian style teachers: not to give it all away in the intro. But many of us don't perform full sets, and our performance opportunities are relegated to the 5 minute hafla slot. Do you think this is why we do it? because we only have 5 minutes and we better strut our stuff while we have the time?

So what do we do? What do you all recommend? Maybe as an event producer I should consider having fewer performers and longer time slots for dancers to really take their time and get juicy?

I have to say I always find performing at hafla events a major trial. I'm used to live shows that averaged 30-45 minutes. Most of the music I like that has a lot of changes is in the 10-15 minute range. People always say "edit" it. But to me, that means cutting out some of the best parts and just plain ruining the music.

But most hafla's and workshops have time requirements of anywhere from 3-8 minutes. I won't even do anything under 7 minutes anymore. And it's so hard to find good challenging music that will fit the time requirement. Jeez, even a good drum solo will run you 6-8 minutes. So do I do just a drum solo and forego the music or vice versa? It's quite a quandry.

There is this one event that I dance at annually, that used to have live music and each "professional" dancer did a 15 min set. The students were limited to 3-5 minutes. There weren't as many dancers but I personally enjoyed it more.

But then the organizers run into the problem of dancers feeling slighted for not being invited to dance or not being given the same time limit as someone else, etc....

I have always understood the "don't give it all away" to mean not to kill the music with 95 thousand movements per measure - hitting every single nuance and beat, etc.

Rather, take your 30 second to 1 minute intro in a 5-7 minute song to greet your audience and introduce yourself...You can enter with your veil and lovely walk with accents to a malfoof rhythm without over doing it for example.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I have always thought the statement of not giving it all away referred to not overdoing it throughout not just the intro.

Originally Posted by danidance

I have always understood the "don't give it all away" to mean not to kill the music with 95 thousand movements per measure - hitting every single nuance and beat, etc.

Rather, take your 30 second to 1 minute intro in a 5-7 minute song to greet your audience and introduce yourself...You can enter with your veil and lovely walk with accents to a malfoof rhythm without over doing it for example.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I have always thought the statement of not giving it all away referred to not overdoing it throughout not just the intro.

Yeah I've heard this too. My teacher always stresses that you don't have to throw into your performance every single move you know. Doing so might make ya look sloppy and rushed.

Right, Dani throughout the whole performance not to overdance the music, but in particular the intro, too...you have to build....(I kow you know that, Im just articulating my above statement)

In a 5-7 minute song you really prolly only have 30 seconds to 1 minute of intro - and in that amount of time I'd say pretty simple clean, simple dancing if the music calls for it to let your audience know who you are. Like when you meet someone - you don't just dive into conversation - it's "hi, nice to meet you/how are you...lovely outfit...nice party, great weather, isn't it?" then you pull out the conversation.

Bottom line - it's gonna be whatever the music dictates....

As someone who does a LOT of hafla-type dancing these days, I've given this a lot of thought. Here are my perceptions:

- A hafla performance is NOT a condensed restaurant set. So most of those rules don't apply.

- Like writing a short story vs. a novel, the 5-minute dance must be terribly FOCUSED. It can only say ONE thing. And that thing can't be 'look how versatile I am."

- If you like, you can think of a hafla performance as one segment of a routine. Over the course of 5 haflas, you get to present your full routine. Don't try to do it in one hafla or two. Don't worry, there's ALWAYS another hafla!

So yes, maybe you JUST do a drum solo. And next time, you JUST do a saidi piece. And next time, you present JUST the intro portion (or middle, or finale) of your favorite Orientale piece. Later, you can present JUST your faboo veilwork, or your balancing, or your shaabi. If your dance community is anything like mine, it's largely the same audience each time anyway, right?

Most of us (including me) have been guilty of wanting to get more than one thing into that slot. But picture this: You're an hour into a long evening, and a fairly good dancer comes out & does a lovely short veil piece. Yaaaaay. But wait, she stays onstage.... oh, a drum solo too? OK, hope it's not too long. (at this point she has to better than 'fairly good' to impress you, right?) Drum solo over, applause. But wait, she's staying onstage. Some kind of saidi bit. Yawn.

If that dancer had quit after the veil, you would have remembered her fondly. But now? You think she has an overblown image of herself & remember her as a bore. Was she within her time limit? Who cares!

Now I limit myself to one song, OR a very short intro with a QUICK (edited) transition into a drum solo.

The dancer who decides to do a 7-10 minute song when a) they are in over their head skill wise; 2) they don't know the song and it shows. Makes me nuts. Why torture those of us watching so?

As a newish dancer, I will not go beyond 4-5 minutes. I can't be interesting for longer than that - most newish dancers can't either IMO. Some are fab - there's always that....but on average - keep it short!

Here's how I structure a short performance--

I pick a song with a good intro (swirly swirly around, hello, how are ya, check my cool costume...traveling traveling) for a minute or less. I also make sure to let the DJ person know--because sometime they expect dancers to go out and pose before the music starts. I want my music to start and then I come out.

If I can't find a good intro, I use one from another song. But it must be SHORT!

Then I pick a song I love love love and know really well that is about 3:30-4:00 minutes.

There is a short short drum solo I use. I think it's 2 minutes.

Then a little swirly swirly exit music. And thank you good night.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Most of us (including me) have been guilty of wanting to get more than one thing into that slot. But picture this: You're an hour into a long evening, and a fairly good dancer comes out & does a lovely short veil piece. Yaaaaay. But wait, she stays onstage.... oh, a drum solo too? OK, hope it's not too long. (at this point she has to better than 'fairly good' to impress you, right?) Drum solo over, applause. But wait, she's staying onstage. Some kind of saidi bit. Yawn.

My god, there is a dancer in our community who does NOT know when to exit the stage. She goes on and on and on and on, ignoring all time limits given. And her dancing grates after that long- just when you breathe a sigh of releaf that its over... a new song comes on- again and again. One time, while she was performing at a restaraunt hafla, the waitress came to ask us if there was anything we needed, got distracted by said dancer, rolled her eyes, and told us in no uncertain terms what she thought of her. I was so embarassed for this dancer. FYI its not a bhuzzer, so dont wonder if its you, ladies.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

Most of us (including me) have been guilty of wanting to get more than one thing into that slot. But picture this: You're an hour into a long evening, and a fairly good dancer comes out & does a lovely short veil piece. Yaaaaay. But wait, she stays onstage.... oh, a drum solo too? OK, hope it's not too long. (at this point she has to better than 'fairly good' to impress you, right?) Drum solo over, applause. But wait, she's staying onstage. Some kind of saidi bit. Yawn.

So true!

"Don't give it all away" is one rule I have heard from all of my teachers... "Always leave them wanting more" is another.

Originally Posted by mish_mish

...I pick a song with a good intro (swirly swirly around, hello, how are ya, check my cool costume...traveling traveling) for a minute or less....Then I pick a song I love love love and know really well that is about 3:30-4:00 minutes.
There is a short short drum solo I use. I think it's 2 minutes.
Then a little swirly swirly exit music. And thank you good night.

This is a very nice way to make a short performance. The only problem comes when there is 10 other dancer doing exatly the same. I've never been in USA, but I have heard horror stories about the shows, where everyone did exactly the same things. After 8th drum solo... ,s:: If there isn't any way to actually plan a show, then I would chose only one kind of song with entrance and exit. SO if one dancer does saidi, other drum solo, one alexandrian or balady, it will be nice cobination.

Originally Posted by outi

This is a very nice way to make a short performance. The only problem comes when there is 10 other dancer doing exatly the same.

Agreed. I recently bought the IAMED Bellydance Rocks, Reloaded, and Revolution DVDs. One of them -- I think it's the second -- has about five soloists who do veil entrances and then drum solos. I liked the first veil/drum solo, but by the time I got to the third, I really wasn't impressed anymore.

The problem with haflas and other group shows, of course, is that you rarely know what other dancers will be doing in advance, and inspiration always seems to strike everyone at the same time. For my dance society's show this spring, for instance, I had decided early on to do a drum solo, since no one had done drum last year. Lo and behold, two out of three other soloists soon informed me that they were planning to do drum as well! I switched to a veil piece and settled for a short (1 min.) drum finale.

I totally agree with Lauren picking one theme. You are probably going to dance again, you don't need to show that you can do everything in one 5 min performance.

I've also been to events where it's veil song and drum solo, pop song and drum solo, entrance song and drum solo, taxim and drum solo.

Originally Posted by outi

This is a very nice way to make a short performance. The only problem comes when there is 10 other dancer doing exatly the same. I've never been in USA, but I have heard horror stories about the shows, where everyone did exactly the same things. After 8th drum solo... ,s:: If there isn't any way to actually plan a show, then I would chose only one kind of song with entrance and exit. SO if one dancer does saidi, other drum solo, one alexandrian or balady, it will be nice cobination.

Well, if everyone has 7-10 minutes you have to sit through the performance anyway. I dance the way I was trained! Plus I have no clue what other people are going to do and frankly, it's not my problem!

If I am hosting the hafla, then I take into concideration the performers skill level and then suggest a time limit for each individual.

So a beginner - 3-4 mins
An intermeadiate - 5-7 mins
Adv - 8-10 mins.

Then the line-up would be something like, adv, int, beg, int, adv, int, beg, etc... with the finale' a pro dancing for as long as she wishes.

Or perhaps to do something different, the event sponsor can be super organized and have time slots, like Cassiopia and then genras as well: cane, veil, drum solo, zill, etc.

Dancers should not be concerned with what other people are dancing. If you have a killer drum routine than by goodness, you dance it like there is no tomorrow. Big deal if there are 5 drum solos and one veil routine. Each person has there own dance style so it's nice to see different interpretations of drum solos.
I think shows should be grouped as stated by someone else. Have the beginners dance first, than intermediates and last, have the professionals. That's just my opinion though. :)

When I was dancing in clubs doing 45 minute shows, the concept of "not giving it all away" related first to the issue of pacing oneself physically from start of show; instead build up as music builds. Another thing was that we basically came out in veil wrap so it made no sense to work hard at shimmies the audience can barely see - an accent here and there is enough. The third factor I remember and this is true for long or short shows is that the audience needs to be paced as well, otherwise they just get exhausted trying to watch a dancer who never pauses, never relaxes into the "rests" in the music - sort of the "flight of the bumblebee" type feeling. In that context, it meant to me a dancer who is trying to cram LOTS of steps into routine not realizing the audience is just "glazing over" at the constant activity!

Originally Posted by sumayasaahir

I hear this a lot from Egyptian style teachers: not to give it all away in the intro. But many of us don't perform full sets, and our performance opportunities are relegated to the 5 minute hafla slot. Do you think this is why we do it? because we only have 5 minutes and we better strut our stuff while we have the time?

So what do we do? What do you all recommend? Maybe as an event producer I should consider having fewer performers and longer time slots for dancers to really take their time and get juicy?

Just because a set is 5 mins long, still doesn't mean you need to storm in and do it all in the first few minutes.... Depending on the skill of the dancer, 5 mins can be a quality 5 mins or a hellishly boring 5 mins. I'd rather not see every movement on the planet crammed into that 5 mins thanks very much. And if you feel the need to cram it all in, then you are trying to show off rather than dance.

Originally Posted by danidance

The dancer who decides to do a 7-10 minute song when a) they are in over their head skill wise; 2) they don't know the song and it shows. Makes me nuts. Why torture those of us watching so?

Some are fab - there's always that....but on average - keep it short!

The GOLDEN rule is.... leave them wanting more.

Originally Posted by Lauren_

- A hafla performance is NOT a condensed restaurant set. So most of those rules don't apply.

- Like writing a short story vs. a novel, the 5-minute dance must be terribly FOCUSED. It can only say ONE thing. And that thing can't be 'look how versatile I am."

I actually like these aspects of dancing at a hafli or other non-restaurant setting--it gives me an opportunity to really focus on one thing and not worry about how well it will fit into a set, or whether the costume I'd want to wear for one song will go with the rest of the set, etc. The only frustration I have with a five minute limit is that so many songs are in the 5:30 to 6:30 range.

One thing I wish more organizers would do is to know the dancers and dictate some parameters. In other words, request that they perform something specific that they know they are good at in order to have some variety. It's excruciating for the audience to watch ten different variations on the same style and type of routine. It's good to see a rotation of dancers, too, so that if one dancer only has a couple of specialties, she doesn't get asked to do the same thing every time, and the audience (which is often made up of the same people) gets a change of scenery.

Bad dancing is excruciating. No matter how someone structures their set, if it's bad, it's bad.

And to be honest, different regions have different standard performance expectations.

I miss the long sets too. I like watching sets that are 30-45 minutes, if that is a real show - meaning not 5-minute chunks in between gathering tips. Challenging to dance that way, but rewarding as well.

Alas, I think those classic nightclub days are behind us due to the simple fact that live bands seem to be dying out (the kickass ones anyway, there is still plenty of bad hippie djembe to go around). And 45 minutes of taped music is just not the same. The beauty of the long-format show is thae feedback loop between dancer, musician and audience.

Originally Posted by mish_mish

Bad dancing is excruciating. No matter how someone structures their set, if it's bad, it's bad.

And to be honest, different regions have different standard performance expectations.

True, but as someone else mentioned, even good dancing gets old when it's too much of the same, especially for the spouses/friends that get dragged along.

Originally Posted by lotus

Alas, I think those classic nightclub days are behind us due to the simple fact that live bands seem to be dying out (the kickass ones anyway, there is still plenty of bad hippie djembe to go around). And 45 minutes of taped music is just not the same. The beauty of the long-format show is thae feedback loop between dancer, musician and audience.

Oh, I miss that too! You're so right about it not being the same :(!

Originally Posted by lotus

there is still plenty of bad hippie djembe to go around.

That kind of stuff makes me want to become a Republican.

I don't know how a hafla or showcase performer would have any idea what another dancer chooses to do. Maybe if things are getting boring, the show is too long.

Originally Posted by mish_mish

I don't know how a hafla or showcase performer would have any idea what another dancer chooses to do. Maybe if things are getting boring, the show is too long.

Most of the time, I don't think the ORGANIZER even has any idea! Unless it's strictly her own students performing. The ones I know guess as best they can based on what people 'usually' do.

I just went to the best hafli ever on Saturday and I thought the organizer did a great job of putting the sets together. First, she requested music/style far in advance, making sure there was no song duplication. Then she arranged the show so that there was quite a bit of variety in styles. No two troupes performed next to eachother. The gothic bellydance performances were spread throughout the evening. There was one sword in the first half and one in the second half. More experienced performers had longer sets (2-3 songs) and less experienced performers took shorter sets (3-5 minute songs). Best of all, I could tell that the hostesses had hand-selected the performers vs. asking for volunteers, because every single performer whether experienced or relatively new had great stage presence.

I like Saqra's advice (on her website) on putting together a show list. She says that you should start and end with a bang, make sure you have a lot of variety. People judge the quality of the rest of the show by what you put first (they will always thnk the quality will go back to that level, or hope for it anyway) - and they will remember the show by what they saw last.

For haflis, I like short songs that contain a lot of variety. My current favorite is the Raqs Leyla version done by Brothers of the Baladi, because you can work in a veil entrance, and it also contains a very brief drum section, and a chiftetelli section, and lots of spins. It has it all in a 3 minute song. I feel like if I don't get my drum in, then people have missed the best part of what i can offer. But I don't like to enter with a drum - it's awkward. So I guess that's why so many people do a veil entrance and end with a drum.